Occultism/Satanism they are the same thing! Part 1

Occultism/Satanism they are the same thing! Part 1

Let me start by saying EVERYTHING is linked. Science, Christianity, Satanism, Occultism, Music, TV, Mayans, Hopis, Egyptians, Buddhists, Pagans, ECT… ECT… you name it, it is linked!

I have been dreading the making of this thread for a while. I have been mulling it over trying to think of the best angle to go at this. I was challenge by a fellow ATS member to write a thread to prove my theory that Occultism and Satanism is the same thing. However, I was asked to do this without using the Bible as a reference. This to me is a huge challenge because I am a Christian. I have faith thus I believe the Bible is a credible source. Also my theory does lack tangible “evidence”. Without faith and the belief in the Bible I cannot prove my theory in the way that the secular world would find acceptable. I expect to be bashed over the head and drug through the mud for this thread but I do not tend to take it personal so hear goes.

Trying to decide on how to write this thread and where to start I concluded that the logical thing would be to start at where I did, and go from there. But because there are so many elements I will do this in parts. This will be part one; it will not satisfy my theory as a whole so the reader must return to read the other elements as I add parts. I plan on adding an element each day until I have fully explained myself, before I move on to another element, I will answer responses to the previous element and then I will move on. All questions will not be answered because I will not have time and any rude posts will be ignored.

I was raised in a dysfunctional family to say the least. My parents divorced when I was four. My mom went into a deep depression and my father became an alcoholic. My mother was unable to care for us kids and we went to live with our dad, who traveled all the time. I was left alone with my step mother because I was the youngest and not yet in school. My step-mother was incredibly abusive to me. After 6 years, when I was ten I went to live with my mom (my siblings stayed at dads) who worked nights, and I was left alone a lot of the time. At the time I was what was called a latch key kid. Up to this point I had been to church with my Grandparents some on visits but nothing very stable. I found refuge in God long before I was formally introduced to him. When left alone I prayed for God to send his angels to keep me safe, I would feel immediate comfort and go to sleep.

Both sets of Grandparents were Church of Christ, so for a few years I attended one of their Churches with them. I usually stayed with my grandparents on the weekends. Through the week on Wednesday night I climbed on a van with other kids and went to a Pentecostal church. I also visited a Catholic Church sometimes with a friend. So I got a lot of different takes on Christianity. I married a Baptist, but we did not go to any Church, we fought over who was right. After I had my daughter I attended a Church of Christ for a few weeks but never became a regular member. My husband and I have been through a lot but we both had strong morals and managed to stay married. For a long time when someone asked me what faith I was; I would say I am confused instead of I am a Baptist, Methodist or whatever. It became a joke, but with all the different Churches I had been exposed to I was truly confused. None of the religions had the same ideas or beliefs yet they all used the same book and worshiped the same God, I just could not understand. So like many people I just gave up, I still believed in God, Jesus and I prayed and read my Bible. I searched and searched for the answers. Problem was I had all these pre conceived ideas that had been planted so I thought I already knew everything so nothing new could penetrate.

I finally woke up, I am determined and I wanted to know the TRUTH. So I threw out all pre- conceived ideas and started all over with an open mind. I prayed for wisdom to understand. I fasted to open my mind, I read, and researched and I still do. Along the way I believe I have been enlightened (I guess you could say) I see things very differently now. Everything fits and makes sense to me where it used to confuse me and leave me with more questions than answers.

When I opened up and started to study with an open mind the first thing I learned about was the difference in the secular calendar and God’s calendar laid out in the Bible. Let me tell you the one that God created is much more logical than any other calendar used in history. See because he made us and the universe and the earth; his calendar is in sync with our bodies, the earth and the universe. To learn more about God’s calendar and the history of the secular calendar I have added this link. This you tube link is a starting point you can find much more information by Google-ing the subject and by reading the first few books of the Bible.

www.youtube.com...



[edit on 2-3-2010 by Melissa101]

Hmmm.. not to be a downer but even if you had compared this with the "bible" and "god" directly, this would still be a narrowed opinion; based on personal and previous prejudice.

I mean just as much offense as you mean towards those who have other ideals on what the occult means to them.
I do agree however every religion is the same thing in the end. I am not very religious but I do believe in a lot. I don't worship anything, but i respect and wonder the possibilities. Your title alone I find to be in error because they are not related directly. It may depend on one's view on this world, but to sum it up in your title I find more or less bias *grins* I don't intend on any "attacks' or flaming you.
Best of luck and i will read part two, i know this is an early comment and I have not waited to hear you out completely... but its the title that caught my eye.

Anything else other than the worship of GOD ALONE is a form of idol worship.. And it does nothing but embolden Satan.

Any form of idol worship is a form of Satanism. These occult practices are nothing but idol worship.

That's my take on the issue.

reply to post by Choiseul


You are right the title I chose does not reflect this thread alone, but it will at the end. This is the history and the first element of the theory that Occultism and Satanism are the same thing. Along with Paganism, Wicken and I could go on but you get the point.

Oh, PS. I am not against anyone for their beliefs but I was asked to explain mine and this is attempt to do so.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by Melissa101]

reply to post by seattletruth


Great, someone else GETS IT. Whew, thanks for your comment. I agree 100% and my goal is to show everyone interested how this puzzle fits together.

reply to post by Melissa101


It's not a puzzle coming together.
It's the result of believing in God.

I shall read when you have finished, and this will be my last post on this topic. But much like the person who has posted above your second... rather narrow minded indeed. I find religion to be an escape from reality much as a book or movie, but with a bit more depth. To compare Wicca or Paganism to Satanism.. hmm... well I can't comment on the past, but I can on the present. It is obvious that "satanism" ( oh which by the by is a singular god in those circumstances ), is its own league. Paganism and Wicca is more along the lines of nature worship now-a-days. Occultism does have a link with satanism but it is not solely connected. Besides all of these are mere words, every bit of it; which leaves one to truly question anything they feel close to beyond their own understanding... why is it that we have all of these? Religion seems to be more of an expression of hope and a reach out to that what we find divine in our lives.
To segregate them "good vs. bad" or what is more common now than it was in the past... i find that this leads us much further from actual "harmony" that all religions strive for... for control no doubt, but they had, in general all, good purposes to live by.. the intent. One god is no different from several. They are all the same thing but defined by each individual in a different way, that they can relate to. To say one is better than the other (this isn't intended for you OP, just those who are rather hard headed with their "my way is the one way" comments)... it really says a lot about that person.. and not exactly in the best manner. -------- All right, enough of my philosophical dribble. We live, we die - why does it matter what another believes in this short life time? We are selfish creatures

All roads are trying to get to roughly the same place, based on individual preference. However I believe that occultism and Satanism are not the same thing.

Wicca=satanism? No way

I think satanism at its core is about material and self empowerment. I think the "divine" way of life is about the collective feeling of well being and advancement as one.

So I can roughly say that something being hidden or occult then I can assume that it is its being done to give some sort of satisfaction to ones material life. At the "highest" levels, this affects the highest percentages of people.



[edit on 2-3-2010 by kyle43]

reply to post by Melissa101


You said you threw out all other ideas and yet you prayed for God for wisdom, I think there's an issue right there. Praying is a religious ritual to invoke God right and I assume the God you were trying to invoke was the Christian God right? I ask this because I too reached a point in my life where I started from scratch and that meant separating myself from the religious programming/brainwashing I'd gone through (ie no praying).

From the Christian viewpoint anything that does not glorify God or man only serves to glorify Satan, so on that level yeah I suppose you are right and some might even argue that whatever glorifies man is also a sinful thing. That kind of absolutist attitude is dangerous though. As a kid my fundamentalist Father wouldn't even let my siblings and I watch Scooby-Doo or celebrate Halloween.

There are many who dabble in the Occult on a daily basis. Ever read your horoscope? What about a Harry Potter book? None of that stuff has even the slightest bit to do with Satan and yet its all part of the Occult. In fact even Satanism, from what I've heard about it, isn't 100% about Satan and there are many interpretations of Occult beliefs and yet aren't there like 30,000 Christian Denominations, my point is that beliefs are varied even within one religion, even between individuals of the same Church there are bound to be VAST differences in belief.

I don't think Occultism and Satanism are the same thing. Even if they were what difference would it make? Satan is about as real as any boogeyman and I'm bothered by the fact that there are grown men and women out there who believe in Satan enough to worship him. Heck the Bible isn't even 100% clear on who or what Satan, the Devil, the Dragon, the Snake is/are and I stopped trying to make sense of fairy-tales ages ago.

You should never use the bible to back up an argument. NEVER!!! Any verse you can quote in the bible to support your claim, I can use another verse from that same bible to dispute it. By the way, your whole premise is false. Sorry to tell you that, but it is. I suggest you actually do some research instead of using one source to support your claim.



[edit on 2-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Occult = hidden, secret, esoteric.

Satanism = worship of the biblical devil.

That is all.

reply to post by Melissa101


LOL... Well, you might not say I "get it" if you knew I was Muslim.

But to every Muslim, idolatry is the worse sin imaginable. It's called "shirk", which literally means "partner making".

Occult religions might not be a direct form of Satanism, but they indirectly are, because they are not the worship of God, in the ways he made clear to humanity by his prophets and messengers that he gave us. Each prophet was told he MUST tell the people all the information, so any religion that is kept "occult" was not from the Abrahamic God.

It's the ONLY sin which can't be forgiven (if maintained til death). Even making distinctions between prophets and messengers equates to idolatry. Making images or even trying to imagine what God is like will constitute idolatry. Even worshiping your own children (like many parents do in the US) is a form of idolatry. Worshiping your own ego is idolatry.

Any occult religion pays homage to a different God than the monotheistic god of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammad, etc. Nothing could be more evil, in the eyes of God.



[edit on 2-3-2010 by seattletruth]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull

Satan is about as real as any boogeyman and I'm bothered by the fact that there are grown men and women out there who believe in Satan enough to worship him. Heck the Bible isn't even 100% clear on who or what Satan, the Devil, the Dragon, the Snake is/are and I stopped trying to make sense of fairy-tales ages ago.

Oh, Satan is very real. He just doesn't work through the things that people think he works through. Think about the things that most people think Satan doesn't use as a tool, then you will see what his tools actually are.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 2-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Oh, Satan is very real. He just doesn't work through the things that people think he works through. Think about the things that most people think Statan doesn't use as a tool, then you will see what his tools actually are.

Toothbrushes
Vegetarian restaraunts
Cockerspaniels
A3 paper
The colour yellow
Exercise
Charity drives
Hydrocarbons
Laughter



By your reasoning, Satan is everywhere we don't expect him to be, working through and amongst all elements of life. What a horrific world view you have. I'm so sorry, man...

reply to post by seattletruth


I do not think you do not get it because you are Muslim. I respect Muslims and have much admiration for the faith they/you have. I do not agree with everything the Muslism believe but I do believe there is something significant that occurs at Mecca, I would love to go there and circle the alter, I have read that it is an amazing experience and one feels very close to God. See I believe that much truth lies within many faiths and that not one of them is 100% right. I believe that if you took parts of all the God worshiping faiths you would have the perfect faith.

Occultism is using signs and symbols to invoke supernatural powers which ae not from your Christian God.

Satanism is Objectivism (Ayn Rand's self-important philosophy) overlaid with metaphors based on various elements of the bible and post-biblical sources like Paradise Lost.

In short, Satanism sucks, Occultism might be interesting.

You can trust me on this; I read the Satanic Bible in high school. it's a real snooze fest.

Originally posted by Roark
Laughter

That MONSTER.

reply to post by SpeakerofTruth


Agreed, Satan sits on the front row at church everytime the doors are open. I believe he is the head of one of the most promentant Christian churches in the world. As I continue my explinations I will explain more in this subject.

Most forms of occultism have at their heart a deep devotion to some deeper understanding of god / universal wholeness / divine light and require their adapts to attempt to supress their egos. So it seems unlikely that they are inherently 'of satan' / evil / egocentric mysteries for the most part.

Then again as Satan is a creation of God and therefore a part of creation, some occultism (like many things) may bare the taint of his touch.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by gYvMessanger]