Occultism/Satanism they are the same thing! Part 1

reply to post by Melissa101


I didn't mean "what are your reasons for thinking that God created Satan?" -- those are obvious, just as you stated them. I meant "What were God's reasons for creating Satan?"

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


But the thing you dont get is the fictional character your talking about is a representation of a philosphical concept and its interaction with our society through history. In that way you are as blind as the unquestiongly devout mainstream religious flocks. It doesnt matter whether their is a real person flying around being 'The Devil' what matters is that concept of evil, or anarchistic endevours, nihilism blah does exist and needs to be labeled as a negative force in a way that people can understand so that they can avoid it no matter their level of intelect or scientific curiousty.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by gYvMessanger]

reply to post by gYvMessanger


The passage about the Nephilim should be in any version of Genesis, Chapter 6, verses 1 through 4. The complete story of the fall of the Grigori is found in The Book of Enoch, an apocryphal book available at the bookstore and probably online.

There are three versions of the Book of Enoch I asked which one you where referring to ? But I assume by your answer you dont know and are referring to the first ? Please correct me if im wrong.

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by Melissa101

 

I didn't say we are the only beings with consciousness because it is "logical" but because it is obvious and clearly evident. When was the last time your pets spoke to you in English or you heard two birds discussing the meaning of life? We are the only lifeforms on this Earth with consciousness.

On the other hand, when was the last time you heard a member of the Khoisan (en.wikipedia.org...) speaking english? And when was the last time your dog heard you speaking Canidean? while I agree generally with what you are saying, I do so tentatively, and your anthropocentrism blinds you to possibility.

reply to post by Shadowflux


I have read the book of Enoch and I believe it is valid. Noah was saved becasue he was true human and not tainted with the blood of the fallen angels. Enoch was special to God, but he did not dave Noah. They were pure in their generations.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth

Originally posted by seattletruth
or even trying to imagine what God is like will constitute idolatry.

[edit on 2-3-2010 by seattletruth]

Yet, that is what the Abrahamic religions do by anthropomorphizing God. Are you telling us that the Abrahamic religions do not view God as having human like characteristics? Yes they do. Anger, judgment,contempt,jealousy. All of those things are human charateristics, not attributes of God.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by SpeakerofTruth]

You're talking about Judaism and Christianity. I'm talking about Islam.

In Arabic, the 99 names of God are his divine attributes... Most Merciful, Omniscient, Omnipotent, Most Gracious, Reckoner (calculator), Designer, etc.

God giving himself attributes which only he can truly possess is not anthropomorphizing himself at all.

Who are you to say that God doesn't have the right to have disdain for certain people? Why should God love the wicked people? Do you think your moral system is better than his?


[edit on 3-3-2010 by seattletruth]

reply to post by Solasis


Some of your quote is incorrect.

who was originally an entity created in the service of God; he was the caretaker of God's throne, but later fell from the heavens because of his pride according to some Abrahamic traditions.

Shemjaza and the other Grigori descended to the Earth in order to couple with the human women. The result of this coupling was the birth of horrifying monsters.

Each of the Grigori is known for having taught a different type of knowledge to man. God was angered at the coupling of angel and man but was more offended by the fact that the angels revealed secret knowledge to man. Therefore, God cast the Grigori out of heaven.

reply to post by seattletruth


Dont you agree though that there is a difference between an attribute being something of God and the attributes being used to try and assign a complete idea of God ?

Is it not that the 99 qualities can be found perfected in God but they are not an attempt to define all that Creator is are they ?

reply to post by Solasis


I do not know why God created Satan. I do not believe anyone human knows the answer. I do not pretend to know God's plans other than
what he has written in the Bible for us to know. But I trust God knew and knows what he is doing and why he created Satan to me is irrelevant.

[edit on 3-3-2010 by Melissa101]

reply to post by Shadowflux


Its been a long time since ive read any version of Enoch. Is it referred to as the fall then ? The Exile of the Watchers is seen as a seperate event isn't it ?

Though saying that I don't recall Lucifer being mentioned by name in any pre-Christian Jewish text.

reply to post by gYvMessanger


Sorry, the copy I have prints passages from the other versions when there is a difference. Right now I'm not sure which one is the main version it uses.

reply to post by Melissa101


Alright, I'll try a different tact.

Do you believe, as you seem to, that Satan is the source of all evil?

Whats all this got to do with a lunar calender ? Which Christanity doesn't use anyway. I didn't watch the video so I never got that part.

Originally posted by gYvMessanger
reply to post by seattletruth

 

Dont you agree though that there is a difference between an attribute being something of God and the attributes being used to try and assign a complete idea of God ?

Is it not that the 99 qualities can be found perfected in God but they are not an attempt to define all that Creator is are they ?

Of course, I agree with you completely. Trying to assign a "complete idea of God", or trying to be able to even grasp the concept and identity of God is idol worship... Creating graven images. No human can ever define God, nor should we try.

Like you said, we can know certain attributes of God, but that is in no way trying to define him. It's just certain things that can describe him partially. Actually, it's partial descriptions that he gives of himself (if you believe in the scriptures). Nobody could ever grasp God fully, except God himself.


[edit on 3-3-2010 by seattletruth]

gYvMessanger

As I stated in the OP it will be made clear as I go through the steps. I am trying to take the same path I took to come to the conclusions I noe have because it was requested of me.

Solasis

Yes I believe that all evil on earth stems from the same source; Satan or any other of the many names he has. I do not believe he is the only one that carries out that evil, he has his demons and fallen angels to assist him.

reply to post by Melissa101


Alright, and you have already stated that God created Satan.

This means that God is the source of the source of all evil.

Is that acceptable to you?

reply to post by Melissa101


But why then does the buck for good stop at a level higher up the command chain than the buck for evil ? If God created Satan and God has (always had) a plan that cannot be wrong ?

reply to post by seattletruth


Its actually the same in Judaism and I expect the same in esoteric Christanity it just seems the mainstream branches of Christanity don't really want to teach their lay folk about properly spiritual matters.

Solasis

I know where you are going with this and to answer your question I have no idea why or how God created Satan, only he knows I just trust that he did and for reasons I nor you could comprehend. That is still irrelevent and a mute point. It does not prove or disprove anything. Look it is late I cannot even spell or type properly. I will return tomarrow with Part 2.
Good night all...