The Tainted Word of God

reply to post by Shane


Hi thank you !

Of course your two cents are welcome just like any other.

I may have lead you to believe I'm in agony from guilt or sorrow. Because I feel deceived.
I'm sorry about that. I refer this deceit to modern day religion and not because I don't believe in God. The message is not dismissed by me. I probably have a different interpretation of it.

I started this thread because I know very little about the gnostic books and so on. And because I like to read what others think about it.

There are a lot of links given where I'm going ta have a full time job on, I'm afraid. Unfortunately I already have a full time job.

I didn't read The king James Bible so thank you for bringing it up !
I do have a good reason for this.
This is actually the 3th month in my whole life, I'm member of an English( international forum. Never before I did anything like it.

Dutch isn't the same as English. I don't get it but I know people who only hear gibberish coming from me in English. Not one word they understand.

As for K.I.S.S.
Was it your way of an insult ? Or is Keep it simple stupid actually common knowledge where you come from ?
Don't worry if it was.If so I thought it rather amusing.

I'm curious. What makes you write this post the way you did ?
Are you a true and honest believer and use the King James version as a guidance or are you just playing an advisory role with it.
You come over like you are truly believe what you write about in the post.
After our introduction a little while ago you lead me to believe, you know more something others do not.

As for the Accuser what is his role in your opinion ? ( accept for accusing of course. )

I believe from experience. I never had any bible to tell me what or not to feel. I'm raised Christian. The problems I encountered questioning my faith are probably not the ones The King James Bible is able to solve.
Sorry I said faith, I meant to say religion.

I sure do appreciate your links and I'm definitely checking them out.

Further more you've earned my gratitude for you incredible post
Thank you !

reply to post by nomorecruelty


From your comparison link:

Is the Bible the Word of God, or does it contain the Word of God? If the Bible is the Word of God, then it is all His Word and does not contain error. If the Bible merely contains the Word of God, then it may contain the errors of man. We say that the Bible is the verbally inspired, infallible Word of God, in spite of Flamming.

it can contain a message, is cannot be a message.

The bible, any version; obviously is NOT the verbal word of god. The word of god is not printed letters on a page. Printing letters on a page is done by humans- unless god has some parchment and a quill up there? No? Didn't think so.

Supposedly the bible was inspired by the word of god, in which case- it was written by man.

Do you disagree? If so- please do show me evidence that the authors of the books that make up the bible were NOT human.

The quote from your linked webpage above is saying this: we don;t like the argument that the bible was written by fallible man, complete with those errors mentioned above- so we instead insist it is the word of god only. it is perfect, and we will stick our fingers in our ears if you try to say otherwise.

not only is that immature, it's illogical. God itself did not put pen to paper and write these books. Jesus didn't even write these books, other HUMANS did. They were not god.

Making more sense now?

it is completely absurd to insist that the bible is correct and perfect when it was written by men. Even your beloved King James Version. It's still written by men, and so can only be those authors interpretations. Not fact, not written by god.

If one cannot grasp these obvious facts, how would one be able to grasp the messages within any holy book?

[edit on 1-3-2010 by cjcord]

reply to post by ReelView


I've seen the same situation on other issues.

It's really not a virtue of mankind. ( To act like sheep. :shk

Thank you for your input.
I have to say I can not see anything different then a sheep, if I'd looked in a mirror convinced of the idea everybody would is up to a scam.

I do believe the reason for any bad behaviour is human nature. and a cause of our emotions and evolutionary talents to survive.
I talk about this in my thread To define evil and discuss the way it works Please feel free to ad your own opinion on it. ( It has been a little death,calm and quiet. ?)

Originally posted by peggy m
reply to post by Sinter Klaas

 

To begin with, Adam and Eve were the parents of the Jewish. The first book of the old testament even recognizes that there were more than just two people on the earth (Genesis 1:27). Then came the father of the Jews, Adam (Genesis 2:7). The entire old testament is written by Jews for the Jewish, the "chosen" people. The new testament has books written by people who had formed new religions. Romans had pretty much taken over and the Jewish leaders were sucking up to the conquerors. If you compare the new testament to Greek and Roman mythology you may discover a huge coincidence. I was under the impression they were symbolic and Adam stood for Mankind.. Not coincidental is it to find Roman and Greek mythology back in the bible.These civilisations were the ones spreading Christianity and used the pagan beliefs of their citizens to make them more willing to accept Christianity. Like Christmas is also not a Christian holliday.

The deception occurred when parts of the Jewish religion was combined with parts of the new Gnostic religion to create a Christian religion. You already learned that the bible is many books, but what you may not know is that it is a canon, only the approved religious texts were included.yes I did know this I did not think this to be relevant. As it would not make a better argument for not believing religion.

"Duane Christensen, in the October 1998 issue of Bible Review, listed twenty-three referenced books that have been lost in antiquity (14[5]:29), to which we can add seven additional works mentioned in the Bible. Such compositions as the Book of Jashar (Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18), the Acts of Gad the Seer (1 Chronicles 29:29), and Paul’s previous Corinthian letter (see 1 Corinthians 5:9) are among the thirty cited works—twenty-eight from the Old Testament era, and two from the New Testament era—that are not included in the canon of Scripture, and that are missing from secular history. The contents of these books are known only by the fact that they are cited or quoted." (Retrieved from www.apologeticspress.org...).All the books in the NT accept for John are much later written then the time what its telling about. is it not ?

That is not the best part. The promotion of hell did not come from the bible, it actually came from 14th century epic poem Divine Comedy, written by Dante. Well.. Ive read some parts of Dantes inferno but I did not no it was the lay out for hell as we know it. Thank you. I will check it out.

reply to post by cjcord


I think I believe we think a like on this issue

Thank you for the link.

reply to post by nomorecruelty


Is it not written in the bible that you should not judge ?

Thanks more links

When I´m done with all of them I can call myself a scholar
( a joke )

[edit on 1/3/10 by Sinter Klaas]

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by nomorecruelty

 

Is it not written in the bible that you should not judge ?

yes, but it also says you SHOULD:

1Cor. 6:2-3 Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life!

Prov. 3:21 My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight;

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
Jer. 22:3 Thus saith the LORD; Execute ye judgment and righteousness...

Phil. 1:10 so that you may be able to discern [judge] what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ...

Phil. 1:7 It is right for me to feel this way about all of you [judge you]...

But of course the bible is perfect and contains no errors (or contradictions)




[edit on 1-3-2010 by cjcord]

I have seen several videos as well as read several books on the issue, and it seems to be a pretty agreed upon idea that the church at the time chose the books that they did to put in the Bible based on the message they wanted to send. The Catholic church at the time wanted people to depend on them for the truth, and there are several books that were left out of the Bible that said very clearly that your relationship with God is between YOU and HIM, not through the church. In fact, early church services were basically a gathering of like-minded belivers that encouraged one another and helped them with their issues. If you look, the word pastor or preacher(as used as in refference to a church leader), is not in the Bible! That was an invention of the later Church as a tool to control people.

reply to post by smashing31


Thank you !

I think we share these thoughts .

I feel a bit hypocritical saying this because my father is a pastor. I respect what he does, and I think his heart is in the right place, but I think people have just become too lazy to find out what they believe for themselves. They would rather just believe what the pastor says, then put the time and energy into finding their own beliefs.

Originally posted by smashing31
I feel a bit hypocritical saying this because my father is a pastor. I respect what he does, and I think his heart is in the right place, but I think people have just become too lazy to find out what they believe for themselves. They would rather just believe what the pastor says, then put the time and energy into finding their own beliefs.

Why feel this way ? Your father isn't responsible for people acting like they do (as sheep). My experience is although I believe the institution what we call the churge is false or has unrighteous intentions. I see most individuals actually believe and do good and love as it should be.

In my opinion, most people would do the right thing if they are not influenced.

[edit on 1/3/10 by Sinter Klaas]

I agree. I think there are alot of people with good intentions, that just go to church and believe whatever they are taught because that's what they are taught to do. There are alot of people in the church though, that go as a self-righteous act. These are the people that look down their nose at everyone in the church who isn't as "holy" as they are. I really believe that those people are the ones that, in the end, will be judged the harshest.

reply to post by smashing31


If judgement day is true.
I think you are right. But I've honestly not have my opinion written in stone yet.

CJCord gave a link to a list of books which are not in the bible Prev. page.
There are many I've never even heard of.

www.sacred-texts.com... This one. Maybe you missed it ?

reply to post by cjcord


So Your Jewish.
I´ve got a question.

What is religion teaching about evil the devil and so on.
My understanding is a part does not embody evil at all. An d a part which do but this embodiment still serves God and is there testing us for Him.

I was watching a program on The History Canel the other day about this subject. I know it's not the most credible source, but it was interesting nontheless. That is a good link, i'll have to look at it some more. I have only been on ATS for about a week now, and I think it's very interesting that there seems to be a very anti-Christian undertone on here alot. I can't really blame them for it, because alot of the church sets a very bad example for the rest of the world, but there are alot of people that believe in God, but do not believe in the establishment of the church and I think, unfortunately, we all get lumped together.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by cjcord

 

So Your Jewish.
I´ve got a question.

What is religion teaching about evil the devil and so on.
My understanding is a part does not embody evil at all. An d a part which do but this embodiment still serves God and is there testing us for Him.

Interesting question.

technically speaking, Jews don't ascribe in a belief in "hell". Instead, they teach of Gehenna, not sure if that is the correct spelling, we only referenced it in hebrew.

originally Gehenna was an actual place, later on it became a metaphorical description of a place much like a Christian "Limbo".

Souls would go there to be cleansed, before the following journey to a final destination. Most Jewish teachers of mine explained that cleansed souls would continue to a sort of heaven, while souls that were too bad to be cleansed would be destroyed. No eternal fires and torture here. Gehenna would be a place where souls would spend a known amount of time, not "forever".


Also, from what I remember, the Devil was never actually spoken of. Sure, we would learn about the evil serpent in Gan Eden, but after that most messages came from angels, and we were told not to be wicked, but not specifically to avoid a devil.

Evil, or wickedness, or sin; appears in all theologies and mythos. But i think only Christianity has the monopoly on a eternal place of damnation lorded over by a deceiver.

Here is a relatively short article on Judaisms' view of hell.


here's another: www.jewishtreats.org...


ETA: I wouldn't actually call myself Jewish. I was raised Jewish, I teach my children about their Jewish heritage, but I think I am much more of agnostic.

but my ideas on Jewish-ness being more than a religion is for another thread

[edit on 1-3-2010 by cjcord]

reply to post by cjcord


Regarding judgment... I assure you; Judge not lest you be judged. And likewise, judge and be judged. The issue is one of righteous judgment rather than blind condemnation. Judging as a god, with Order AND Charity, rather than judging blindly like an animal with Pride or Chaos.

But for those who are not able to discern these differences and simply see contradiction or foolishness where wisdom truly rests, your end will be as your beginning, as an animal, even blessed above the other animals with the weight of your blessings resting on your own unwise shoulders. Judge as a gracious judge and you will be judged with grace. Judge with Pride and Chaos, and the tree which does not bear good fruit will be used as firewood.

If Elohim lives within you, you are truly elohim. If Life lives within you, you are truly alive.

reply to post by Dasher


Ahh, but righteous is relative. What is just in my eyes may not be just in anothers. One has no right to judge any other, until one knows what is right. And as humans, we cannot know all that is right.

Therefore, no human can judge righteously.

far easier to not judge at all than to make the mistake of thinking yourself righteous enough to make the decision. That is called arrogance.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas

I didn't read The king James Bible so thank you for bringing it up !

Then you should be aware of King James and the Masonic implications this merry Mason would certainly have placed within the premise set forth in his "English Translation".

James was Masonic. It was a Bible that was to carry his Name. You must bet that scripture has been abused, in the translation, to glorify this for all time.

This is why I stress the need to obtain a Strong's Concordance. The details Strong placed when preparing his Concordance is amazing, and NONE have every come close to mark since. Using this as your reference tool allows the reader the opportunity to check for themselves and verify if the Translation was offered in context to the Original Hebrew or Greek Texts.

As for K.I.S.S. Was it your way of an insult ?

No insult intented. People in general, tend to make things more difficult than they actually are. Take the Sixth Day, and you will have people suggest unique individuals which shared within 1 (one) body, the sex Organs of both Male and Female, and that this was what MANKIND was at this time.

Then consider Adam, created after the 7th Day, and he is somehow more than any of the 6th Day man. He has some special soul, or exceptional spirit unfound in the androginous 6th day man.

BALDERDASH. The Bible is quite clear and simple in the expression of who and what these peoples are. But, could it really be that Simple. Why Yes

GOD recreated the Races (Mankind) on the 6th day and on the Day after the day of rest, he Created a unique individual called a farmer. Prior to this, the management of Food Stuff's came from the bounty of the earth throught it's floral and fauna. From Adam and forward Agriculture is introduced.

This is an example of Keep It Simple Stupid.

Also, please remember this always.

CHILDREN understand GOD.

If they (Children) can get it, it must not be as complicated as some wish to make it.

I'm curious. What makes you write this post the way you did ?
Are you a true and honest believer and use the King James version as a guidance or are you just playing an advisory role with it.

I am a Believer in Christ and GOD. I was raised Christian, through a Pentecostal Background, and married Catholic. Religions such as these, are in my humble opinion, a farce, seeing that they do not teach GOD's Word. They "Tell" you what GOD thinks or is suggesting when they pick one verse from this Chapter and one verse from that Chapter. The problem is, in most cases, the Verse is stripped from it's context, and becomes a realitive Sound Bite, which is contrary to what the Chapter is saying. Much like Headline News.

I may bore some here, but here's a story.

Back some 20 Years ago, I had a C Band Satelite Dish, which for some who may not know, was a 5 or 6 foot Round Mesh, which Scanned across from east to west picking up some 15 or so seperate Satellites. The Major News Corperations had things called WILD FEEDS, which would uplink News events from around the Globe to the Centeral Head quarters for processing on the evening news.

I would watch these WILD FEEDS, and see what was happening.

No Narritive
No Annoucer
No Face

Maybe you heard Sirens, or Talking in the background, but you would SEE what was occuring.

I swear, I saw things take place, and people saying things in the background, which when viewed on the Evening News, WAS NOTHING LIKE OR EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT ACTUALLY OCCURED. It was the Sound Bite from some editor or anchor over the events and the story was FICTIONAL.

Much like what occured at Waco Texas when the U.S. Goverment under the Direction of Sasquash, aka Janet Reno, and with the blessing of the Billary Clinton administration, slaughter the Innocent Children and many People who chose to live a lifestyle which did not conform to the secular.

We heard a story of Koresh claiming to be GOD from the FBI. This was never true. It was a comment, made in passing when confronted with an absurb question by a reporter from Austrailia, who asked if Koresh fathered a Child with an 80 (Eighty) Year old Woman. In a sarcastis manner, Koresh said if he did it, he must be GOD. The Question was ludacris. The Answer had the Goverment (The NEW GOD) spewing , and they slaughtered those people outright. Why, because of a misleading "Quote" taken out of context, to prove their own internal point to the sheep.

This is nothing different from what Organized Religions do, only it's every week. And then they Ask for 10%.

Sorry, I am rambling. My bad.

As for the Accuser what is his role in your opinion ? ( accept for accusing of course. )

The Accuser is Satan. He has many other names. Ishtar, Zeus, Apollyon, The Devil, The Great Serpent are just some. It is just Satan means the accuser or for the sake of my last post.

Satan
7853 satan saw-tan' a primitive root; to attack, (figuratively) accuse:--(be an) adversary, resist.

Sorry I said faith, I meant to say religion.

If you must, say Faith. Religion is the PROBLEM.

Anyhow, thanks for the kind remarks.

Have a good evening

Ciao

Shane

[edit on 1-3-2010 by Shane]

reply to post by cjcord


Yes, the Bible, as far as putting pen to paper, was written by "man" - inspired by God.

God could have picked up a Bic and wrote it - lol but chose not to - dunno why, you are welcome to ask Him that on Judgement Day.