The Tainted Word of God

Originally posted by randyvs

reply to post by totalmetal

 

Here's why. It dosn't take a student or a professor to figure it either as I am not. We must differ somewhere though. So I offer this in explaination
of that difference. People study things and can become very well rehearsed in anything.

Those who open their minds to what they are studying have always excelled and developed their understanding and therefore
their talent in that field. There are far more who just go thru the motions.
This is evident all through life you must agree. Two catagories you must belong to one.

To study something in total disbelief. What a waste.

Nonsense. I studied mythology of the Greeks, Romans, and Norse as well. You don't have to believe or disbelieve in something to study it. Either way, when I was studying I was not doing so as an atheist or agnostic but with an open mind and heart. I believe you have me all wrong in your head. I am agnostic now and think there may be a God, but to me it is not the God of the Christian Bible.

Cheers.

While I was also raised as a Christian, I am also an agnostic. I believe in the necessity of a divine being, since there is no satisfactory scientific explanation to explain the origins of life. Even now, they're not capable of producing life in a labratory under "ideal" conditions. Religion is primarily a method of controlling the masses and I just don't buy into the hype.

reply to post by homesalesguy


I agree !

It's not wrong or false or bad to believe. It starts being so, when people let their believe to deny what they are learning with a tool they are blessed with. Like the brain.

The nescessity part I do not think as so important.

[edit on 28/2/10 by Sinter Klaas]

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by totalmetal

 

Do you have a link to what it's telling ? a small summary ?

I'd appreciate it.

Let's see... Here is the description from Amazon.com. The book is totally worth reading, I've lent out my copy to several people and it has all kinds of notes taken down in it and pages marked. Excellent for atheist, agnostic, Christian, or any one interested in the true origins of the New Testament.


I couldn't get the description to paste properly, I was trying to do a snippet but I'm new here Check this link for the product reviews.
Amazon.com

reply to post by moocowman

How are you Moocow? Salutations

What prompted you to believe this ?

I can't believe you asked. At the same time I can't begin to tell you. I don't know. It is something that has always been there. My very first thoughts were in consideration of God. I do remember my Grandmother
reading to me from the Bible before I could walk and I never said ga ga.
It was always just. God . flipen the index. pointing up. thanks for asking.

metal

Nonsense. I studied mythology of the Greeks, Romans, and Norse as well. You don't have to believe or disbelieve in something to study it. Either way, when I was studying I was not doing

Congrads you made a point that I never contended with.

[edit on 28-2-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by moocowman


I don't accept or reject them, but see into the experiences the early church was having as those individuals tried to find truths for the whole, just as we do today.

I do think every bit of knowledge does not benefit every purpose of God. My son gave the example of knives.

He said that knives would never have existed if all had gone according to God's good plan. Every knife ever created was made to cut, and ostensibly to cut flesh, in the early days. He also pointed out that cars and other things that do result in human death and injury would not have ever developed. Fascinating to see how a kid's mind can work when applied to the things of God...

Are knives and cars useful and even necessary? Yes. Were they under God's better plan? No.

I feel similarly disposed toward the Gnostic gospels.

reply to post by Copperflower


Why destroy them then ? ( gnostic gospels )

Children aren't called speakers of truth for nothing.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by Dasher

 

Christ is the Word of God. And if I claim to follow Christ and that God is in me, and even more so, that Christ sent the Comforter to live within me, I am the Word so much more than the scriptures are.

The problem you have here is that you really believe this statement has a meaning to anyone other than yourself.

I don't normally respond to statements like this because they are empty but I have to point out you haven't backed up your superstitious claims with any evidence at all.

Actually, Moocowman, this statement has a great deal of meaning to a great many somebodies other than Dasher. Just saying...

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Hi SinterKlass:

Confused by this... Destroyed? I didn't say that.

I think the Gnostic gospels refer to a lot of physics, most of which is still over our heads since we refuse to put good serious scientific inquiry into these religious texts.

How is interesting physics we can barely comprehend or believe going to help people who need it? That's the message of Christ, who helps us who need him.

It's more important to focus on learning to love, and be strong in real love, not a human emotional reaction that we often experience as love.

Love is stronger and much more powerful than Hallmark can portray. They say you need their cards to truly express love. Should Hallmark be destroyed for misleading people about love? Hardly.

Again, I don't recall using the word "destroy". The only thing I want destroyed is evil.

Originally posted by moocowman
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

When you began to question things, especially your basic religious beliefs, that's scary as heck. Uncomfortable, painful....downright unpleasant.

I assumed you were talking about yourself here ? My point was that not so many xtians are brave enough to face their deep rooted fears and run the risk of feeling these emotions.

It would appear that it is easier for those who fear the fear and the unpleasant to spend their time persuading others , if they succeed they reinforce their own beliefs and no longer have to face some hard questions that nag at the back of the mind.

Sorry for the long quote, but this is exactly the point I was referring to. Thanks for saying it in a respectful way, because it is a painful situation indeed, one that God is allowing to implode, to reveal Himself through all the doctrines and traditions and unauthorized editing of His word. It still works, it just has been robbed and exploited.

Just check into the revisions currently taking place in the NIV. Many scriptures are being altered, and I don't mean modernized, but actually edited to the point that they cut powerful parts out, parts that we may find incredibly significant in times present and future, like the medicinal plants of the rain forest yet undiscovered.

reply to post by Copperflower


Sorry !

With destroyed I meant. At the time in our history the churge began to take form, they tried to censor every religious scripture leading away from theirs. It failed but only barely.

And Medicinal plants ? ( from reply to smyleegrl )

I thought that one of the issues God blaimed the watchers for, was for them learning us magic, charm, the knowledge of plants and use of it.

Or am I missing your point ?

Edit.
I get what you mean with love. I agree.

[edit on 28/2/10 by Sinter Klaas]

This makes sense to me. I look at it this way: If 'satan' is tricking people- let's look at who is being tricked simply by their actions and words.. Think about how people act with a wide variety of things, both religious and not. How churches act....

It seems those who may actually want to put effort into making sure what they're being force fed isnt twisted lies and nonsense are the ones who get flattened by the 'religious' bunch. The ones who really want some measure of practical real world help are treated the same way.

Where can an average yahoo like myself find all these 'lost' books in a paper form? I'd like to see if this stuff actually makes more sense to me than what I have been presented with.

Originally posted by moocowman
Which you have not provided

My communication to you was to express that the lack of historicity of Christ was on your shoulders to prove rather than it being my responsibility to prove something widely accepted. Nevertheless, a simple search brought this;
History of Joshua - Greco and Roman sources

Originally posted by moocowman
So why on earth begin with the claim of proof when you now say it doesn't matter anyway it's an issue of faith, ie not matter what you'll believe it anyway.

Because there are two issues at play here. One being the historicity of Christ, and the other being the validity of His teachings.

Originally posted by moocowman
This is what is scary about your cult, you throw a bible into the lap of a child and tell him that it is fact and you have the proof.

While I do not take this approach to teaching a child, it is still no worse than your lack of tenderness to those whom you condemn. Albeit, both are corrupt.

Originally posted by moocowman
If your faith is so strong and absolute, you have no reason to discuss proof or seek to present it, you have no reason even to defend your position.

In fact, it is you who have altered your perception of history due to your offense of my position.

Originally posted by moocowman
If you really and truly believe the claims of the bibles you need only pray in your closet as your master commanded and have a life that would turn a head, and inspire someone seek out your secret of a happy life.

You are certainly right about most religious people being hypocrites, however, I do pray in private. But this is only one small part of a fruitful life. And if taken so trivially, it would lead to just as corrupt a religion as modern christianity has become. I urge you to seek truth and consider that Christ's teachings are not that of those who generally claim to be His followers. I am not His follower in that context. I am His brother.

[edit on 2/28/2010 by Dasher]

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


I still do not follow fully. If you are referring to the difference in the Jewish cult of Christianity and actual Judaism, then I can offer a thought.

The teachings of the prophets were one of Order. They taught certain things about mankind. Christ brought us teachings of Charity. They taught certain things about mankind. However, in fullness, the teachings are about Life who is OrderCharity. God is both Order and Charity and in eternal perfection are beyond understanding. This is why there is a dichotomy in God and mankind was made likewise, physical and spiritual coinciding with Christ and Comfort which are also Word and Spirit, which are from Order and Charity which are One who is "God."

reply to post by Dasher


Yes you got my point.

Now me.
You say order and charity is one. You are a brother of Christ just like me.

So, Christ is symbolic and a reference to duality what obviously are two sides of the same coin.

Do I get it ?

reply to post by wylekat


I really understand what you mean about not having any simple way of reading other religious scripture.

I know the book of Enoch can be found on line probably also the gospel of thomas and the book of jubilees. But I'm not sure/
The other books I don't know.

As soon as I find them I'll let you know.
Watch the You tube links about the banned books in the OP. They have a lot info. to offer.

Hell and the devil are not what they should be, if we wer truly keeping us to our Judaism based believe system.

Originally posted by Sinter Klaas
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

When I announced in high school that I would be reading theology in college, I can't tell you how many of my church members told me it was a bad idea "because all that learning will let Satan decieve. you."

Nice example !
Just as questioning ones believe or any other thing for that matter. These are the walls I :bnghd: in to.
There are much more.
You shall not judge. Is a common answer I give.
The 10 commandments are IMO, the most breakable rules in life. I think these are all causes from our own human emotions.

Yes, my younger brother went to theology college to me a minister, which he was until he began to do research on the Bible's origins and look at other ancient belief systems and practices.
He reported to me that he was taught how to "mesmerise a crowd" by using key words and hand movements. I can believe this without a problem, for I have seen it down plenty of times when I was young and went to church on a regular basis. I left when I had questions for the minister he could not answer, like the two Genesis stories, and the many Gods and Goddess in the Bible. I was severely warned not to:

Ever question the word of God.
Not to gain knowledge, for it is a sin to do so.

I have spent years researching the bible, and it pains me that most Christians fail to even read it, let alone other books that relate to it, and other ancient stories akin to it.
Like you, Sinter Klaas, I post a lot on the falsity in the HB, and Christianity, BUT!

My posts are meant to make the Christians question their faith, and look beyond their precious book. It is true there is a great deal of blood on Christianity's hands, but that is for them to settle.

reply to post by smyleegrl

Yes, I was talking about myself. I'm still searching for god on my spiritual journey, and its extremely tiring, painful, scary.....but also so enlightening.

Try searching for the Goddess too, she is in the Bible, you know, her name is Bible name is Sophia, and she stands for wisdom. (probably why Christians are warned against gaining wisdom) Also, a Female Goddess was worshipped for 20,000 years before the Church came along and murdered many "wise" women just so man could take over and subdue the Earth. Read that "destroy" the Earth, as they have almost done. If women had been running things, we would not be in the trouble we are now with global warming and pollution. Remember, "As Above, So Below." and, "What you hold true on Earth, I will hold true in Heaven." These two quotes are in the Bible! Like I said earlier, most fail to read it, let alone research it to the bone.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas

I am a believer. I have made a conclusion where I say, religion as it is present day, is evil. An instrument for power to gain and control it. This is why I'd like to discuss these findings

Sinter Klaas:

I am very much in agreement with you in many respects. I would wager a guess that whatever artifacts or writings hidden in the depths of the Vatican's "basement" would probably turn all of humanity on it's ear.

It is my belief that the biggest hoax ever foisted upon humanity will, over time, turn out to be The Bible. Yes, there are messages of love, peace, forgiveness, and tolerance that obviously are important for us to embrace if we are to be happy. The problem arises with the contradictions about God himself:

Do not fear anything / Fear God's wrath

God loves unconditionally and forgives all / Displease God and he'll send you to hell for eternity

God loves all his creations just as they are / God created homosexuals only to condemn them as sinners who will go to hell

We are not to be jealous or envious / God is a jealous God

We are not to allow our egos to drive our actions / God created man to worship him and only him

Frankly, who do these writings seem more likely to be influenced by? Who would be more likely to influence truth and create contradiction to keep humanity in a constant state of confusion and disillusionment? Who would be the one to preach one thing, yet himself act the opposite? Who would expect us to worship him and praise him amidst a chaotic world of death, destruction, and suffering and say, "It's for your own good?"

I think we know the answer to that.

Is it any wonder why people are reluctant to commit their lives to the Lord?

Just because a sentence has quotation marks around it does not mean it is the absolute word of God. We have seen how corrupt man can be and the depth of deceit he is capable of. Why can't we accept that there are possibilities that corrupt persons have gotten their grubby hands on these writings and twisted their meanings to suit their own use?

Perhaps the truth about God and Jesus is possessed by a small few who have replaced it with lies disseminated generation after generation in order to keep us in despair and confusion, ultimately stifling our ability to evolve spiritually.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas


Less an issue of duality, and more an issue of balance perfected beyond our abilities versus death. As duality is in death, God connected to us in a dualistic way (Christ and Comfort, Word and Spirit, etc). Likewise, we are "God's image" in that we are both seen and unseen. Not all are given passage through the gate into the unseen, but all mankind is subconsciously aware that we are not simply flesh/animals. No man is made better than another by face value, however, some men have been gifted a comfort and expression of comfort that lifts them away from the realm of animals and into the everlasting. Again, this is a gift of God within. Not an obtainment.

Consider perfection the vanishing point. From that point of OrderCharity, as images approach our realm, these expressions of God can be manifested in temporal ways. Order without Charity becomes Pride and Charity without Order becomes Chaos. Breaking down further, ignorance of God is a form of Chaos which leads to death, but also is ignorance of your neighbor. And also, arrogance against God is a form of Pride which leads to death, but also is arrogance against your neighbor.

This is why Christ said;
"Give to God with all of your heart, soul, and mind."
And it is also why His second commandment was referred to as being like the first;
"And likewise, give to your neighbor as yourself."

When regarding the sum of this realm, God is in the direction of Life and Void is in the direction of Death. In this way, God is One Life and there is no duality since Void, by definition does not exist. Existence is. As God said, "I Am."

Note, duality is always regarding aspects of God that were sent by the Father, but the Father is never regarded as a duality because They are irrational relative to our inabilities and it would be unfair to limit Them on account of our weakness. But, those They sent to us (Christ and Comfort, etc.) have been detailed and expressed to us for the sake of understanding and increasing our abilities and strength.

---

OrderCharity is life, however, Pride and Charity are dying. OrderCharity emanates from God Unknowable, while Pride and Charity lead to Anti-Life Unknowable (also known as eternal/true death).
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Dualities do happen to be how we and God are manifested in this world by appearance and description, but I would not want to be strict regarding what other realms God may manifest creatures and Themselves in. I do not believe God to be limited to the constructs which we are limited to.

---

Christ is as the Word and the Comforter is as the Spirit, provisions of God by God. If They live within us, we are born of the next world and will not perish when it is the time of harvest, but rather, we will emerge from this world as though it is a womb. The scriptures refer to the end times often as birth pangs. This was purposeful.