I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

Originally posted by jackflap

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
I am watching a certain irony here. Many people who could be considered "Trolls" are the one's who are "Totally agreeing" with the Site Owner's post as if they are somehow exempt from the very thing that the OP is talking about.

Anyway...I'm out.

Well EvolvedMinistry, can we agree that this thread was a needed learning experience for all involved? I for one welcome correction if I am in the wrong and use it towards becoming better. I believe saying anyway I'm out is just a way to wash your hands of a situation and let everyone remain ignorant.

Why not use this as a starting point to begin to bring everyone up to speed?

Sure, I'm in agreement of that. But, my point was to illuminate the idea that there are many on this very thread, who have been identified as trolls in several others, who are here now agreeing with the OP, when they in fact are the problem that the OP is referring to.

lol a hack is slang i may be slightly off but it basically refers to someone as a fool, someone who acts like they know what they are talking about when they really have no clue


in response to the thing about addressing things in post rather then leave it up to the mod

that almost always will detract and derail the thread

usually if there is a violation that needs a mod, the violation is detrimental to the thread, the more you address it in the thread, the further off topic you get, the more you fall right into the troll trap

i have done that before, with member zaiger, and we both looked stupid even though i/we was/were trying to make scientific points, i allowed myself to be dragged down to the same level and become involved in incessant bickering, i was suckered in, but its my own fault that i allowed myself to be


but did any mod come in and address the situation, even after i alerted the thread about both of our posts? nope not one mod and the bickering went on for 2 pages, it ended up not even being a convo about hemp and bamboo, it became a ridiculous convo about site policy and rules


the bottom line is when there is an issue, there are a very few people who can do anything about it

those people are mods, super mods, and admins, all we as members can do is alert the proper authority, from there it is up to them to act


i have found that when members try to do the jobs of mods, it only creates more problems within the thread, and creates higher tension between members, which leads to more trolling posts, more childish bickering and more off topic nonsense


members should stick to being members and mods should do the mod jobs, when mods dont do the job appropriately, the appropriate actions should take place, if there are not enough mods to do the work more should be implemented


many mods on here are amazing, possibly the ones who make mistakes, do simply that, make mistakes, there may be a few that abuse power but i cannot point them out even though i have seen actions that point to either abuse of power, or true confusion regarding policy, sure sometimes im sure there must be confusion, but i wouldnt be surprised to know there is abuse of power here, theres abuse of power where ever there is power and i would expect no different here

reply to post by EvolvedMinistry

Sure, I'm in agreement of that. But, my point was to illuminate the idea that there are many on this very thread, who have been identified as trolls in several others, who are here now agreeing with the OP, when they in fact are the problem that the OP is referring to.

I hope then that they are learning from it. Moving forward with what the opening post pointed out, I believe we will be able to see this behavior for what it is. It can only make the site better.

We don't need to point out those individuals either, they know who they are and now they know they have been called out so to speak. So, with the help of everyone on this thread, I am now able to discern a hack and a troll. They have no where to post their nonsense knowing what we know.

Originally posted by humilisunus
WOW great way to start a thread....... name calling!?!

I think you'er full of yourself to come here as top dawg and be a hypocrite by doing the exact thing you are trying to stop. Bad form on your behalf site owner or not, to address the issue is one thing to join the bandwagon is another.

You should be pissed look at our world, our planet its people.

Name calling is the cause of someone without argument, facts, or the ability to control ones emotions. Its is also the tool of the people who feed off of playing mind games with others.

So they just got a major feeding of your thread, they got the top dawg PISSED enough to start calling names, it work very well i commend them on the exact example of what you are talking about.

I open my U2U box to see the site owner has flipped his lid, kinda makes me wonder where the site is going?

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

Originally posted by Dramey
i have found that when members try to do the jobs of mods, it only creates more problems within the thread, and creates higher tension between members, which leads to more trolling posts, more childish bickering and more off topic nonsense

This is SO true. It adds nothing to the topics.

members should stick to being members and mods should do the mod jobs, when mods dont do the job appropriately, the appropriate actions should take place, if there are not enough mods to do the work more should be implemented

It's not that simple. First off, unless it's blatant, the staff needs time to discuss the possible infraction before action is taken. Secondly, maybe the post in question is OK.

As to adding more staff, it isn't that easy. It takes a certain mentality to do this job. Adding a member that doesn't fit just makes for a bad situation.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
I am watching a certain irony here. Many people who could be considered "Trolls" are the one's who are "Totally agreeing" with the Site Owner's post as if they are somehow exempt from the very thing that the OP is talking about.

Anyway...I'm out.

Wow! (Scratches around the big question mark floating over his head.)

Don't be shy call them out, provide examples, go to the archives but don't just drop us flat like that.

Your statement could potentially relate to every single member who posted within this thread - help us evolve.

S.O., thanks for answering my question and I have a couple of more. Before I ask, however, I would like to point out that I was going to start a thread that would have caused a ruckus on this board. However, I knew it could spark something, even though it wasn't my intention, but it would have shed a different light on ATS, moderation, some of the topics being discussed in this thread and the ATS user experience (none of it had to do with trolling.)

I sent that thread almost a week ago and gave a 72 hour notice saying I would wait until I had a response/feedback before I posted it as I didn't want to be black listed or banned as a result of it. A mod replied, gave insight to their opinion about my proposed thread and I responded back. The mod then responded back, in length, and I've since decided to hold off. However, and this brings me to one of my questions, why do you and some of the mods feel as if you guys aren't guilty in any of this? It's one thing for yourself and other mods to say you need our help, but have you guys considered cleaning your house first? If you guys aren't leading by example (I'm talking ATS staff in general), how then can you expect the users/members to do what you want them to do?



[edit on 26-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

Ive actually contemplated refraining from posting about politics. No good ever comes of it. When debating on social or economic differences emotions tend to get the best of people. Political bait can draw almost anyone in though.

reply to post by intrepid


i absolutely agree the staff should consult and take time without acting hastily

however with that said, i have seen many actions done in haste, i have seen threads that dont really violate policy, or threads that should at least be discussed by staff, taken down and disappear within 5 minutes of being opened and i am not exaggerating on that time frame, i have witnessed it 1st hand at least a dozen times without any exaggeration


i also agree its not easy to implement new mods

i oversimplified some situations in my previous post

I have an idea,

Sometimes in the history of mankind the Gods felt the need to come down to earth and rumble with the little people,

Dear Mr. Overlord, it would be a neat experiment if you exchanged one hat for another and anonymously post for a year, as one of us, then start a topic on your, adventure.

Maybe you already do.

You know people will never relate to you in a honest manner with your owner hat on, they are intimidated.

[edit on 012828p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by GoldenFleece

So they just got a major feeding of your thread, they got the top dawg PISSED enough to start calling names, it work very well i commend them on the exact example of what you are talking about.

It is an attention getter isn't it? It surely got my attention and the original poster's of the above quote. Which is what it was meant to do.

Now the opinion expressed their is a valid one and one that deserves consideration. Was the opening post intended to be insulting and non productive? No. In fact just the opposite has occurred.

If it was meant to be anything other than an attention getter the opening post would have included names and posts. It didn't and even though the original poster was asked for examples, non were provided. For a reason.

We have systematically gone through ideas and come to a conclusion without belittling those who do engage in the behavior at this time and found ways to avoid such behavior in the future. Brilliant.

reply to post by GoldenFleece


I have lots to say on this issue but I don't want to get barred for saying it is wrong to swear on a thread and dish out insults to other people and to possibly turn ats members into troll seekers, I wouldn't give it a flag because I read the terms and conditions when I signed up!!

mods do not always care about what we alert
they do not care if the mods have behaved irrationally
they do not care if they speak of their own ats members in such diversity.

Maybe the thread should have read "PLEASE READ YOUR T&C'S IF YOU BREACH YOU WILL BE WARNED" POLITELY

Originally posted by Dramey
however with that said, i have seen many actions done in haste, i have seen threads that dont really violate policy, or threads that should at least be discussed by staff, taken down and disappear within 5 minutes of being opened and i am not exaggerating on that time frame, i have witnessed it 1st hand at least a dozen times without any exaggeration

I don't know the specifics of what you're saying but if it's "blatant" it requires little discussion. Also they may have been repeat threads. That is done so as to not clutter the board.

I admit I've only read about 5 pages of this thread, but has anyone come up with a solution besides a warning and ban from ATS.

Maybe:

1. Add a botton in the reply post for TROLL
   
2. Create a job for someone at ATS
   
3. Said new ATS employee gets a message of potential TROLL
   
4. A prompt reply is posted in that thread from new MOD
   
5. Troll or no Troll
   
6. 3 Trolls and your out.
   

At least everyone posting on that thread will be aware, along with the Troll that the MODS don't have to be in the room to monitor what's going on.

CRAP!! Sounds like a "NANNY STATE" web-site. NEVER MIND.

Originally posted by WWJFKD

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
I am watching a certain irony here. Many people who could be considered "Trolls" are the one's who are "Totally agreeing" with the Site Owner's post as if they are somehow exempt from the very thing that the OP is talking about.

Anyway...I'm out.

Wow! (Scratches around the big question mark floating over his head.)

Don't be shy call them out, provide examples, go to the archives but don't just drop us flat like that.

Your statement could potentially relate to every single member who posted within this thread - help us evolve.

Well, if I point them out, then I contribute to the negativity which could easily be seen as a violation of T&C. So, in order to stay within the confines of the rules and to not be seen as a troll myself, I choose to remain quiet.

Originally posted by herbivore
Dear boss, I totally don't get it. You did not give one single example. Are we not supposed to call Obama names any more? That takes away all the fun of political chat, and resembles (very much) communist atmosphere. Lame Stream Media insults people every day (see Sarah Palin). Politics has shows like "Hard ball" because in politics, everything is allowed (like in love). Now, if you can't speak openly on a web forum, then what is the point of a discussion?

I hardly write about politics here, but your post is clearly an odd one, and very hard to understand. Why don't you really say what you wanted to say? Why so abstract? You are not going to take it any more....what? What is the whole team upset with? Give one single example, so that the world knows what you are talking about.

Thanks.

SO's posts always have elements which suggest the "Synonyms" function in Microsoft Word. Words are out of place, and while the sentence itself makes sense, the word choice stands out as being odd. While I can understand the general message of the post, the wording and structure are strange. Most of his posts follow this pattern

Excellent post SO.

I get so p.o'ed when I see an otherwise good thread and see someone going on and on over nit picky crap just to incite an argument.

Beating dead horses is just inhumane!

I've always wondered "why would someone waste that amount of life just to p.o. someone"?

Give'em both barrels dude!



edit due to fat finger

[edit on 26/2/10 by felonius]

reply to post by 5 oClock


The problem with that has been plainly stated. People here run in cliques, brown nosing is evident, and all it takes is for three friends to hit that nifty troll button and guess what? You're out of here. Not because you're a troll, but because others had an agenda and the tools to implement the agenda were provided by the site and utilized.

reply to post by DocEmrick


I do feel it is wrong to dish insults and for us to reply and get barred, why do we have to be treated that way we can't say something and get barred,
if mods can swear why is it not ok for anyone else etc etc.

if this stuff carry's on im going to another site where the mods care and don't ignore us or ignore us because people have rivalry's with mods.

my friend was banned by a mod because she said ats didnt care and is now barred!!!

I am an adult not a child in the playground so why treat ats as one for having a point of view on this topic

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
I have an idea,

Sometimes in the history of mankind the Gods felt the need to come down to earth and rumble with the little people,

Dear Mr. Overlord, it would be a neat experiment if you exchanged one hat for another and anonymously post for a year, as one of us, then start a topic on your, adventure.

Maybe you already do.

You know people will never relate to you in a honest manner with your owner hat on, they are intimidated.

[edit on 012828p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

Why wouldnt we? He's a joe just like us....just a joe with a website

He can ban us but he cant eat us!!!

This is a cool idea if he hasnt done it. I love socialogical studies! Star for you!