I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

WOW great way to start a thread....... name calling!?!

I think you'er full of yourself to come here as top dawg and be a hypocrite by doing the exact thing you are trying to stop. Bad form on your behalf site owner or not, to address the issue is one thing to join the bandwagon is another.

You should be pissed look at our world, our planet its people.

Name calling is the cause of someone without argument, facts, or the ability to control ones emotions. Its is also the tool of the people who feed off of playing mind games with others.

So they just got a major feeding of your thread, they got the top dawg PISSED enough to start calling names, it work very well i comend them on the exact example of what you are talking about.

Our problem everywhere on this planet is , we don't have any good leaders. Sure some have money or power or control, but they completely lack the ability to lead in a way that benefits our species.

This issue should have been address with an iron fist, you fool around your gone simple as that. It should have been with a list of offenders and a list of those that got booted. Just do it, why put up with it? Set an example not a reaction.

I open my U2U box to see the site owner has flipped his lid, kinda makes me wonder where the site is going?

reply to post by jackflap


I am sorry to say but I do think the topic of this thread is to deal with trolls, but yet when complaints are sent they aren't taken notice of sometimes.
so I thought this is the place to rest my beef on this issue.

So I had to paste an example of trolling. that has been reported and ignored by mods.

I am courteous of other peoples threads and feelings, so why do other people get away with free irresponsible speech which is of irrelevance?

wait. you mean were not allowed to violate the T&C? that's news to me

lol great post SO keep up the amazing job you and your staff do at running the best website in the world

reply to post by jumpingbeanz

I am courteous of other peoples threads and feelings, so why do other people get away with free irresponsible speech which is of irrelevance?

I can tell that you are sincere in what you have posted here. What I would do is quote the irresponsible and irrelevant speech and point it out as being such. If the poster continues, I would then use the alert button on the post. I believe doing this will actually educate some posters and make them see that they can get no where by being insulting and ridiculous.

reply to post by SonicInfinity


Thank you.

I was about to give an example myself.

I watch my four year old and others running around the baby sitters calling each other names. If you are using names, your trolling.

Trolling example: you left wing obamatrons (oddly, I don't see bleeding heart liberal very often, guess it lost its power) worship your messiah and can't see that he is the president illegally.


Non trollish discusser I think I made that up) I don't believe Obama ever produced a viable birth certificate, despite what the MSM says. What is your proof that he has?


See? simple.


And if I may take a moment to push my little agenda:

I want everyone to write hundred times by tomorrow:

Blogs and youtube and tabloids are not viable sources. Blogs and youtube and tabloids are not viable sources. Blogs and youtube and tabloids are not viable sources.


Yes I know there are exceptions, it doesn't discredit all uses of them. Like sometimes the discussion of whether it is an exceptional source, or is provided by a legitimate group. Mr. Joe Jingerhireschmidt is allowed to write a blog if he thinks Condoleeza Rice really instigated 9/11, that doesn't make it so.

reply to post by nixie_nox

Blogs and youtube and tabloids are not viable sources. Blogs and youtube and tabloids are not viable sources. Blogs and youtube and tabloids are not viable sources.

I love this one! I think when someone comes across any material that supports what they believe, they hurriedly post it and say AH HA! The thing is, this too has to be brought to the attention of everyone as being opinion and not fact. Does it relate to the topic and belong within the discussion? Sure, as long as someone is wise enough to let everyone know that it is only opinion and not fact. This too will educate posters who honestly didn't realize it.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by jackflap]

Originally posted by jackflap
reply to post by jumpingbeanz

 

My bad, I just re read your post. I guess you were posting content from another thread? I see your point but we all know that some posts are pertinent to the over all discussion. I would politely point out how they are looking a bit troll-like and move on.

Was that actually a civil retraction? Bravo!

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


i want to start off by saying i respect you and your site

however with that said, there are many actions and changes that need to take place here on this site


ive sent several alerts to many situations about what is discussed here in your thread along with other issues, several of those have been ignored, so the problems plaguing ats is not just with its members its with some of the staff (for the record im not talking about personal discrepancies, im talking about obvious t and c violations)


by no means do i want to imply that all the staff has problems, they dont, there are many great people on the staff, and i honestly couldnt point out exactly which ones the problems lie with, but i have seen a very biased approach to rule enforcement here on ats


that brings me to the alternative substance forum

i have sent many alerts about threads that violate ats policy, many of them are left up after the alert, many of them are still up right now

i dont alert them because i want them deleted, i alert them because i want the board to enforce the rules equally, yet a quick browse of the alternative substance area shows you the rules are not being enforced equally

i do not know if you are constantly aware of the goings on in that forum but the rules are simply not enforced equally

there are threads that are created that dont violate the policy in any way, and i am very aware of the policy, it is copied and pasted on a daily basis by either mods or trolls, who do nothing other then copy and paste in that forum, i have alerted about that also but nothing is ever done about trolls in that forum or any of the other things you have touched on in this thread


i have actually ended up looking quite stupid by allowing myself to get sucked into a "troll war" arguing with one of these people which i truly regret and have promised myself to never do again


the forum how it is, doesnt work, people arent able to talk about what they want to talk about, every conversation ends up going a certain route, there is just no possibility to discuss the topics involved without violating ats policy the way it stands


without a change to ats policy that forum shouldnt be there, all its good for is getting posts closed and members in trouble


i also find it interesting how some threads are left up after being closed, yet others disappear into oblivion sometimes within minutes, sometimes after being up for months


when you contact a mod about it, the infamous copy and paste takes place, you u2u them to get clarification, they cant offer any, they just copy and paste

even when you specifically break down how the thread doesnt violate t and c, they still just copy and paste something that is inapplicable to the situation at hand


if ats has certain agenda or policy it wishes to enforce that is fine, as owner you have every right to do so

as members we must respect that, but as members we must ask that rules be enforced unbiasedly and equally


with all of that said, my suggestion to you is to end the substance forum, its dead except for the few moments a new thread is created before it is deleted or closed

either end it or allow for freer discussion, one should be able to talk about the legal aspects of an illegal substance, without being able to do so, you can not freely or accurately discuss an illegal substance without touching on its legality


one can also enforce rules so that we can speak freely yet not be allowed to talk about personal use, it can also be enforced so that there are not 100 threads all advocating marijuana legalization, it can very easily be limited to one thread if a topic of importance arises

we should also be able to talk about what is taking place in our own government regarding the substances, i find it very disturbing that a site that claims to deny ignorance finds dangers in discussing our governments actions regarding any substance

you say to complain about things that are important

well i do, i think we should be able to discuss certain things, as they are very important, yet we are not allowed to even begin to discuss certain things because the moment you begin to, it inevitably ends up breaking t and c, one simply can not speak on certain topics that forum is intended for without violating t and c




i hope you are able to get a handle on trolls and the other problems here at ats


ats used to be an incredible site, when i first joined, it took me ages to go through all the valuable information here, lately, it takes ages to root through all the crap and arguing and childishness

it can be better, but some new rules are needed in order for that to happen, and maybe some tighter supervision of the staff, it only takes a few rotten eggs to ruin the batch


good luck with the site and i truly hope you reconsider how things are going in the alternative substance forum, it truly either needs changes or you might as well close it as its going nowhere in the current form

reply to post by Dramey


yes i see your point here, which is also the same point I am trying to get across, obviously though to post such a thread they may not be getting the trolls as much as we want to think that they are, to be honest I think it is an update in t&c reminders so the mods don't get plagued by alerts.

I seriously think we should be able to delete comments on our threads ourselves, so that if they write something silly instead of waiting for a mod we can delete it and save the backlash of silly postings.

reply to post by Dramey


Dramey you seem to have a handle on what is allowed and what is not allowed. Simply quote the material that you believe should not be allowed and let everyone in the discussion know how the material is in violation, then move on. This is going nowhere because it seems to me that everyone realizes what behaviors should be avoided, but no one addresses it themselves first. They all say the mods this and the mods that. This in and of itself is childish and can get us no where.

I am watching a certain irony here. Many people who could be considered "Trolls" are the one's who are "Totally agreeing" with the Site Owner's post as if they are somehow exempt from the very thing that the OP is talking about.

Anyway...I'm out.

Obey, Conform, Comply....

Seems ironic to me that most are cheering and falling in line, lockstep with the almighty SO.

Good for you Skeptic Overload... way to flex those authority muscles...

Now where's that "delete account" button....

Pffft....

Is this an example of trolling:

I guess free food,money,health care,schooling and housing wasn't enough to even the score?We pay you to breed and then pay for offspring for cripes sake.You are allowed to do less,know less and produce less and still get promoted.We alter testing criteria so you can keep up and still all you do is bitch and moan.If you don't like it leave,I'm sure your ancestors have saved a hut for you back in mother Africa.

Don't forget your getting all that "obama money too!

Edited to add: Those are not my words but the words of a member in this thread who made that very post after partaking in this thread.



[edit on 26-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

Thank you , thank you , thank you!! There may yet be hope.

I got so fed up being walloped with "racist" every time I mentioned the name Obama I was pretty much gone. Dropped by occasionally to see the headlines but didn't dare venture into the posts.

I've had my hand slapped by a mod for something I think was arguably the whining of a crybaby but hey, I took my licks and moved on. Then you move to a thread where the terms racist, bigot, white supremacist are weilded like clubs to stifle dissent and the mods seem to step back out of the way and allow the attacks. Very confusing unless there is an agenda at work and if there is an agenda, who wants to play where the game is rigged?

I haven't met the man/woman I couldn't learn something from- good bad or otherwise. More than once here on ATS I've had to question what I believe because the opposing arguments were so compelling I had no recourse as a logical man capable of critical thought.

And yes, some of my views have shifted as a result and I thank the members who contributed to that shift and ATS for providing the forum for debate. And no, I am not ashamed to admit that my belief system is not carved in stone and therefore subject to change if and when new information presents itself. Should I be? I think not. Rational people constantly reevaluate their position in light of new data.

Thank you once again SkepticOverlord for some faith strengthening direction from above. The clarity and tone of the ATS collective position was right on time.

Three cheers for SkepticOverlord and ATS!! I rated "star and flag" though I feel it's worth more than gold.

Originally posted by EvolvedMinistry
I am watching a certain irony here. Many people who could be considered "Trolls" are the one's who are "Totally agreeing" with the Site Owner's post as if they are somehow exempt from the very thing that the OP is talking about.

Anyway...I'm out.

Well EvolvedMinistry, can we agree that this thread was a needed learning experience for all involved? I for one welcome correction if I am in the wrong and use it towards becoming better. I believe saying anyway I'm out is just a way to wash your hands of a situation and let everyone remain ignorant.

Why not use this as a starting point to begin to bring everyone up to speed?

I've always considered trolling a matter of perspective most of the time (of course there are very obvious trolls).


If you dis-agree with the "troll" you will in fact dismiss him as a troll and be appauled by anyone agreeing with him.

If you agree with the "troll" you will cheer him on and be appauled by anyone calling him a troll.



The label of "troll" is thrown around so much...it has lost it's potency.

reply to post by jackflap


do you know what they mean by the term hack? is it hack passwords or something etc?

if it is the hack that i meant do the mods not check links before they are up and live? because if i spell a link wrong they update it in under a minute,?

reply to post by jumpingbeanz


I have to honest with you, I have no idea what is meant by being a hack. I do know the T&C's here though and I believe I haven't been told I am a hack yet. If I am one, please let me know how not to be one so I will not be guilty of it.

Like I've said many times before, we are all just human and learning. I do not have to be right all the time and welcome any correction to my behavior here that helps us all move toward what we really want. Knowledge.

We all know that this is the most valuable resource on the planet and with everyone working together towards it, I believe we will be a force to be reckoned with. Looking at this thread as being accusatory of ones self or being partial to certain people is not the way to go about gleaning from it what we can.

The end result can only be a place where our collective minds will uncover some startling and revealing things that others who engage in petty nonsense elsewhere will not come across. Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth.

Originally posted by Aeons
It is amazingly difficult to maintain a discussion with people who insist on being personally confrontational.

It is also asking quite a lot from moderators to cut the dfference between not liking someone and disliking their views when they are discussing something with a troll. It is very easy to blame the person you don't like when you AGREE with the topic or the tone of the troll.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

When you wander in and find someone smacking someone - are you sure that the smacker is the attacker and not a victim setting down a cross boundary?

I think you make a very good point. When I wander into a post its not always obvious to me "who's on first", so to speak. When I see a verbal fighting orgy, it's not often apparent why and when the dueling posters went from throwing spit balls to going full out nuclear. Things can get so confusing I stress my tiny little mind to the point I get a headache... Then again, the price of an open debate/discussion is one does not always hear what they want to hear. Yet when having a discussion with one or more people on a forum like this, one can disagree, with out being a jerk, aka as in a "smackdown". After all being polite costs you nothing, and does I believe pay dividens. People are more likely to take a post seriously if some one is not dripping venom...

A very good example of what I mean is what happend to the open forum on the other wise out standing (and free) science web site "physorg.com". The site is a compilation of multiple science publications, condensed, with easy and direct links to most publications. Sadly, another very good site which was free for a long time (not any more) is in my view "New Scientist". I had said how great the site was, and they started charging for access to more then three articles with in a period of time (I can't recall how long you have to wait for resumed free access, but only for three articles at a stretch). If by any chance physorg.com does the same thing, you know who to scream at, and I will send a fusilage of spit balls at physorg.com.

Phys did not have, it would seem ANY MODs at all. You had vile racial attacks, homophobia, sexism, and words that would make a sailor sick to his stomach. As well as choice words about other people's mothers... In the end it was gastly, and if up to me I would have closed down the forum, but as said not the site. I would not have waited as long to dump the forum. Such a loss and terrible waste. People like me just wanted to have a rational and decent conversation/debate about current science topics. Sadly a few ruined it for every one else. I don't know what the moderators were doing, but I assure you they were not doing any thing, let alone their job.

A political hack is a negative term ascribed to a person who is part of the political party apparatus, but whose intentions are more aligned with victory than personal conviction. The term "hired gun" is often used in tandem to further describe the moral bankruptcy of the "hack".

Political hack may also be used by a political opponent in order to erode confidence or credentials of an opponent or his hired campaign help. Often used to demean well credentialed individuals for political purposes. en.wikipedia.org...

My understanding is that SO is referring to the first definition ... folks who are basically here to use ATS as their personal political dogma pimping tool and have zero interest in engaging in mutually constructive discourse, and willingly disrupt others' attempts to do so.

As I said, that is my understanding ... perhaps SO or another staff member can clarify this definition for those who wish for more specificity.