I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

Hi TrueBrit.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
I am a passionate individual. When people express political opinions which disgust me(nazi apologists, people who agree with the war on terror, people who think that being a westerner makes them better than everyone else, addicts of the capitalist machine, ignorant boneheads of every stripe) I tend to get aggitated, and flip out. I dont see why people who are moraly retarded shouldnt get flammed . Where do I stand with that?

I think the answer lay in your question:- "I tend to get aggitated, and flip out."

Mastery of ourselves is what can be learned by sticking to having manners in the way we approach others and how we type it.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I'm infuriated at the tone of politics on ATS... and fed-up with the trolls, hacks, and idiots who favor insults over issues.

We tried...

Over the years, we've attempted to correct the course of political discussion on ATS in several ways with numerous announcement threads, policies, and warnings. The result has been little more than a temporary reduction of the name calling and rote insults by political idiots and ideological parrots.

You mean insulting remarks like?:

"I'm infuriated at the tone of politics on ATS... and fed-up with the trolls, hacks, and idiots who favor insults over issues."




[edit on 26-2-2010 by etcorngods]

I freely admit sometimes my emotions take me over and I sometimes post with a vengeance. It's something in myself I should try and change.

I know I can be better as a poster if I let the truth be the truth and not spin it.

And I think that is a part of the problem here, instead of people really looking for the truth on the political forums, we get bogged down in this partisan political crap that we are all actually above, or should be.

I really don't understand. I understand people are mad. I understand they don't like political trolls. But I don't understand what types of behavior are so bad?

Political attacks don't bother me. What does bother me are personal attacks. That's what I see a lot of here on ATS.

I love political discussion. Some people can't stand it at all. I am not one of them.

reply to post by Tayesin


The thing is, that mastery over oneself is only worth attaining if it benifits good people with kind hearts and overwhelming love for thier fellows. When I flip its because someone with the moral fortitude of a Nazi sex pest with Ebola virus is being allowed to vent xenophobic trash or some similar thing. Surely therefore my efforts to tame the fires of retribution are unwarranted, and the best thing for the target of my ire is to recieve the flaming he so duely deserves.
Dont mis understand me, I flip out when a person deserves a verbal trashing, not by accident. I am passionate, but I am not ignorant.

reply to post by etcorngods


i guess thats like saying we should not grant mercy for mass murderers. Morally, we should not.

it's their site, their rules, their way.

They just allow us to partake.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by Snarf]

BUILD = Create a Thread, share information, promote discussion, educate, unite knowledge and thought, gather input and foster wisdom.
(not all views are similar, emotions can be engaged, dialogue and responses are civil and respectful)

SUSTAIN= Contribute to a Thread, share information, promote discussion, educate, unite knowledge and thought, gather input and foster wisdom.
(not all views are similar, emotions can be engaged, dialogue and responses are civil and respectful)

DESTROY= Derail and Destruction of a Thread Personal Attacks, Foul Language, Racist, Mean, Hateful, Baited, Lacking Respect, The Opposite Of Build or Sustain.

This is all there is, whether it's in a thread, in your head, or what happens with any works of your life.
We are always and only one of these.
We reveal ourselves.

In closing, I like the idea of the troll moniker.

Originally posted by Trexter Ziam
Trolls are in all the threads - why single out only "politics"?

Because I can say with absolute certainty that the worst trolling on ATS is consistently the political hacks parroting canned-insults within threads that are either about politics, or become political because of the participation of the hacks.

There are certainly those who troll other topics on ATS, but on the whole, those tend to be easier to deal with since it's typically only one member per thread... and the troll antibodies our membership at large usually does a fine job of surrounding and killing the single troll.

Originally posted by whatukno
I freely admit sometimes my emotions take me over and I sometimes post with a vengeance. It's something in myself I should try and change.

I know I can be better as a poster if I let the truth be the truth and not spin it.

And I think that is a part of the problem here, instead of people really looking for the truth on the political forums, we get bogged down in this partisan political crap that we are all actually above, or should be.

Yes but I've not seen you resort to flaming and foul language and the habits of a troll.
Perfection doesnt exist so it cant be a choice, civil discourse can be a choice though.

Hi again TreuBrit,

Originally posted by TrueBrit
The thing is, that mastery over oneself is only worth attaining if it benifits good people with kind hearts and overwhelming love for thier fellows. When I flip its because someone with the moral fortitude of a Nazi sex pest with Ebola virus is being allowed to vent xenophobic trash or some similar thing. Surely therefore my efforts to tame the fires of retribution are unwarranted, and the best thing for the target of my ire is to recieve the flaming he so duely deserves.

Dont mis understand me, I flip out when a person deserves a verbal trashing, not by accident. I am passionate, but I am not ignorant.

Mastery of ourselves is worth attaining, for ourselves, and not for any other reason. Everything that comes after is icing on the cake.

When someone like the person you described so well does that, then perhaps instead of getting Angry about it and banging away at the keyboard to Vent, a person could do other things, like push-ups, walking, breathing without counting, anything else instead of tapping angrily away at someone a thousand or more miles away?

This gives the person a chance to focus their thoughts for a more effective and suitable response. Which I'm sure would make the discussions more interesting.

Besides, there is nothing to be achieved by flaming anyone with words, other than the venting that we know can be done in many other ways. I would not like to be responsible for purposely harming another person that wasn't about to try and kill me physically. Apart from such a scenario, there is never a reason to, ever. Self Mastery sees to that my friend.

What's the old saying? Do unto others....

if we cannot swear then why does the thread have pissed in it??? sorry i had to mention it.




p.s. im not saying its right to swear but your kinda giving in to people.
if they see the word pissed they might want to use it too.


[edit on 26-2-2010 by jumpingbeanz]

I just noticed something....

Political Rivalry

Is this new? What is it's purpose?

I would love to know!

[edit on 2/26/2010 by whatukno]

"a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response"

"I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)"

Trolls 1 - 0 ATS ?

Is this an MKUltra experiment? Seems an unusually emotive response for you Bill, I'm slightly blindsided by your approach, though I agree with the sentiment and tip my hat for having this out in open forum.

Have you ever seen Prime Minister's Questions in the House of Commons? The main party speakers are the UFC champions of Trolling compared to the amateur wrestling league runners up trolls here. You can only set the right example, and hope people will learn that open, honest and meaningful debate can only occur in a comfortable environment.

One troll can lead to the derailment of an entire thread, something I've sadly been involved in (calling out) and because that thread went so far off track I hate to think of the potentially enlightening, witty, intelligent posts I love to read at ATS that never made it because the poster thought better of musing on topic in a hostile environment. I'm not entirely innocent or perfect in any case, but I will do my best to uphold my promise of Civility & Decorum.

Godwin's Law seems to be able to applied in many ways in likeness to those that try to derail a topic. Here is one I wrote up today that explains in depth how I found threads derailed across ATS:

Conscience conspiracy against metaphysics

As an except from that OP:


It is obvious the conscience itself is the entire pivotal point of debate from any personal position, and that is why it remains a well-known anomaly. There is still no science exactly where the conscience is located, yet people generally regard it as from the brain. Since the conscience itself is unproven, by stated anomaly, it is metaphysical. It is "beyond" physical proof.

To derail topic that involves the possibility of metaphysics in any manner towards the conscience is like Godwin's Law.

As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups.

Ah, so if I call you a Nazi, I lose, while if you are a Nazi, you win...

In other words, "Ah, so if I can't get you to debate about the conscience, you lost, unless you prove your existence and reason for debate."



When that "conscience" debate starts, the topic is derailed.

Typical example:

Person A: God exists

Person B: Why?

Person A: Because the bible says

Person B: The book is trash is so is your mind, you can't simply refute a question.

Person A: God created us as the book says

Person B: Where is your evidence of God?

Person A: We've had this debate in other threads many times

Person B: Just answer the question to your fantasy world of your deluded mind.

Person A: ...

[edit on 26-2-2010 by dzonatas]

To be honest ATS really don't need to post this because if people read the terms and conditions when u signed up you should already know the T'&C'S ???

so instead of getting angry just ban the people that abuse this site.







If you give in you will cave in.

I'm probably as guilty of some trolling as everyone else is, but after some considering I think I have the nuclear option that will sort this out for ATS once and for all.

If you go back into your U2U history you will no doubt see threads created by SO to this very same tune, some with very pointed plans to deal with it, others more like this with emotion but no concise game plan (Not necessarily a bad thing, not meant to offend either, just how I see it). This has been going on for a very long time here, and so far nothing the staff has really don't has properly curbed the trend to an acceptable and maintainable level.

The only feasible way I can see to cut the trolling out is to do the unthinkable and completely remove the political and related forums from the site in their entirety, or perhaps lock them to no new posts or threads. After that point its necessary to outright ban any member engaging in political discussion of any kind, completely jackboot the issue and stomp it out so that nobody feels welcome posting anywhere on the network about politics because they know it will be a irrevocable ban from the site.

I know it will hurt ad revenue losing that content section, I know its going to rile feathers among the membership, but in the end does anybody else have a plan thats really going to solve this or just act as a temporary band-aid?

you may commence flaming, dismissing and whatever else is the SOP for such radical solutions

reply to post by EMPIRE



Funny I was thinking the same thing. I reported some things against the political sniping TOS exactly one hour before this thread was launched.

I have been a member here for years, and I hate to see the political trolling occurring here. You can bet that if you do something against the politics TOS, If I see you, you will be reported.


ever lurking
xmad

"If you're on a site and you're just agreeing with each other all day, where's the argument?"


So how do you kill a troll? You quit feeding it.

Love and kindness will conquer all.

Some of my enemies here are my best friends. Sounds like an oxymoron but its not.

Just keep your cool peeps, and if you cant, go away for a couple of days.
Everything will have changed.

reply to post by dgtempe


maybe we should be allowed to delete our posts i mean if someone wrote something and they wanted to change their mind they cannot, it would be fair to be able to delete posts on your own thread


[edit on 26-2-2010 by jumpingbeanz]