I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

Originally posted by EMPIRE
reply to post by 5 oClock

 

The problem with that has been plainly stated. People here run in cliques, brown nosing is evident, and all it takes is for three friends to hit that nifty troll button and guess what? You're out of here. Not because you're a troll, but because others had an agenda and the tools to implement the agenda were provided by the site and utilized.

I understand that and so should a MOD and deal with these situation accordingly, and out in the open for all on that thread to see.

Unfortunately, this happens across the boards, and is sometimes very subtle.

It's pretty easy to spot most of the trolling and derailing at first - but as threads evolve, it becomes more difficult.

One of the favourite tactics is to question sources - now don't get me wrong, this is also legitimate, which is where the subtlety comes in, and why it is sometimes hard to spot.

For instance a certain UK tabloid which I won't mention (Liverpool fans will understand) ran a story as NEWS that an argentinian ship had been chased off by a RN ship - problem was, it happened nearly 4 weeks ago.

In that case it was perfectly legitimate to point this out - but after that I took no further part in the thread, and if people want to carry on discussing it, what business is that of mine?

What I DIDN'T do was make a song and dance about it, get irate and start screaming about "idiots duscussing old news"

Often, it's the premise that is more important for discussion than the reliability of the source.

I've had people argue until they are blue in the face, then admit that they don't read sources, documents or other evidence - that, to me is trolling, not discussion.

It's a bizarre situation when it has come to this, but polar extremes in viewpoints will result in heated debate - the key word being DEBATE.

There's nothing wrong with heated discussion as long as it stays relatively civil - and let's face it, on some topics people are never going to agree, or even agree to disagree.
But that's the nature of the boards here.

The rules aren't there so that "the man" can come down on people, they are there to promote civil and informative discussion and debate.

Best thing anyone can do if they feel someone is out of line, or trolling, is use the alert button and let the mods deal with it - putting a reason in the alert u2u is probably a good idea.

BUT, beware of crying wolf - you can't report someone just because they don't agree with you, and if you do that, how can you expect geniune concerns and/or complaints to be taken seriously...

Just my opinion, for what it's worth...

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Absolutely, positively one of the best things I have read, on the Internet, or heard/seen on cable channels where 'talking heads' spout off.

Leave the vile, vomitous discourse to the likes of them....(and I think we all know who "they" are...)

This has been the best post so far today, congrats, We are all with you!

I like the idea of the troll count, much like starring posts.
Under the Flag Contribution meter, there could be the Troll'o'meter, and when that fills up you get an automatic 3-day ban, no action on the part of the moderators required at all...

A fully automated system, which will allow the majority of the membership (who aren't Trolls) to regulate the trolls. Also, the Troll meter could dwindle back down to zero after several days of 'clean' posts that didn't garner any "troll points", so that a couple days of good behaviour gets awarded with an empty Troll'o'meter...

Also, can we have a flash animation of a troll angrily dancing on the avatar of any member whose Troll'o'meter filled up for the entire time their ban is in effect?

Here's a quick example:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e0709329693.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Conspiracy Pianist


Major problem.

People with opposing views will just hit the troll button when they see something they don't like.

The potential for abuse is just too great...

Originally posted by humilisunus
WOW great way to start a thread....... name calling!?!

I don't know about you, but I see a distinct difference between saying:

"I'm sick of the political trolling, hacks and idiots on ATS" (no specific person)

AND

"You, humilisunus, are an idiot" or
"You would think that. Every bleeding-heart liberal worships Obama." or
"You right-wing extremists all think alike"

In the second group, the poster is talking about someone specific (in discussion with another member) and using politically charged rhetoric to rile another poster.

Do you see the difference?

reply to post by budski


Yeah I know... Does that mean we don't get the dancing troll?

reply to post by jumpingbeanz


I owe you an apology too, Jumpingbeanz... Your post wasn't formatted correctly and it looked like you were writing that instead of quoting it as an example...

I'll reimburse your points and remove the "Manners" image from the post.

Sorry mate.

Springer...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
I'm infuriated at the tone of politics on ATS... and fed-up with the trolls, hacks, and idiots who favor insults over issues.

...imo, your thread title is in violation of your own rules - and - your op was a poorly thought-out "do as i say, not as i do" rant...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Make no mistake that this post has been discussed with our staff, and it reflects our collective frustration.

...i didnt find a post from anyone on your staff that pointed out the hypocrisy of your rant - so - it MIGHT APPEAR that your staff fears your inability to control your temper - or - they're just "yes people" - or - they realize you dont mean to "be that way" - or - they ignore you...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
But since I take ownership of the rather strong emotive words to follow, the thread is titled, "I'm pissed."
And now we are really pissed...

...imo, it was YOUR choice to get pissed off and blame others for YOUR lack of self-control... own that if you want respect... dis-own it if you just want to demand respect...

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
Suck it up. You must now sleep in the bed of your making.

...maybe, just maybe, those who suggest that others should "suck it up" might do well to do some suckin' it up themselves...

...i'm all for second chances - so, if you would like to try stating your desires again in a less hostile manner - that'd be terrific, imo...

reply to post by Conspiracy Pianist


Awesome post,

I vote for CP to be the new MOD to keep track of the trolls and those who will gang up on innocent lost in the wilderness posters.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Pianist

A fully automated system, which will allow the majority of the membership (who aren't Trolls) to regulate the trolls.

I think the Mods would have to deem who is a troll and who is not. A system regulated by members could easily be abused by somebody/group as a means to get "back" at someone whose viewpoint they don't agree with.

The trouble is once the act of political madness appears on here. People immediately start to respond to it on an ideological basis. I cannot see how this can be avoided.

T

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


Our staff is as tired of the B.S. as we owners are. If you can't grasp the intention of the message and/or don't understand the history behind it, do a little (or A LOT) of research and get clued in.

Springer...

[edit on 2-26-2010 by Springer]

reply to post by Springer


thanks I did not know it formatted wrong lol until you just said.
thanks for noticing, wonder why someone reported me for just quoting???

there is an ats member that notices after all

thanks man.

Originally posted by Conspiracy Pianist
I like the idea of the troll count, much like starring posts.
Under the Flag Contribution meter, there could be the Troll'o'meter, and when that fills up you get an automatic 3-day ban, no action on the part of the moderators required at all...

A fully automated system, which will allow the majority of the membership (who aren't Trolls) to regulate the trolls. Also, the Troll meter could dwindle back down to zero after several days of 'clean' posts that didn't garner any "troll points", so that a couple days of good behaviour gets awarded with an empty Troll'o'meter...

Also, can we have a flash animation of a troll angrily dancing on the avatar of any member whose Troll'o'meter filled up for the entire time their ban is in effect?

Here's a quick example:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8e0709329693.jpg[/atsimg]

No no no no no... not a good idea at all. That's labeling... and many times unfairly. That would make it easy for an organized gang of trouble makers to just silence anyone who disagrees with them. Forget that noise.

Originally posted by LuckyStrike
I think the Mods would have to deem who is a troll and who is not. A system regulated by members could easily be abused by somebody/group as a means to get "back" at someone whose viewpoint they don't agree with.

Yeah, perhaps. I wonder how often the mods get alerted to come check a post? Perhaps it happens way to often without a real problem, therefore taking up a lot of the mods' time? If 5 people hit ALERT on a post, does that post get prioritized to show up on top of the list of posts to have a look at - over posts which only got 1 alert??

Sounds to me that perhaps some tweaks on the site's inner workings might improve the way to deal with excessive trolling, but I have no clue how the mod tools work.

reply to post by Conspiracy Pianist


It's a big site, with thousands of posts a day.

A lot of the time things probably slip under the radar, and I don't think it's a case of prioritising - a post with only one alert deserves as much attention as a post with ten.

The thing is, we as members should take the lead a little more in this - but again, without crying wolf.

The staff are all volunteers, and they can't be everywhere at once, or even read every post - it would take a dedicated staff of paid people working 8 hours a day to do that.

The thing to remember is that we are a community - and as such, we have an obligation to ourselves to make sure that things don't get out of hand.

The staff are members too, and to my regret, we have lost some great posters because they are too busy modding - I think of the superb posts that some have written, and I despair that they are busy having to referee puerile slanging matches instead of joining in.
Mods are members first and foremost, and I'm sure many of them would like to post more, but sacrifice their precious time for the good of the site.

If more people did that, and helped the mods out, the site would run an awful lot smoother.

We need to get away from the infantile idea that reporting a post is "grassing" or "telling" on someone - we are each responsible for our own posts, and if a post is beyond the pale, it should be reported, regardless of who it is or our relationship to them.

We can ALL help by doing this - but again, don't cry wolf

reply to post by Wyn Hawks


What kills me is that you can't see the very REAL difference between someone being a troll and name calling vs. someone writing about THAT trolling and name calling. By stating, in general, that one is sick of the idiots that destroy threads by trolling does not present a case of hypocrisy. Nice try though.

seems reasonable to me.
I haven't posted anything for some time now.
Mostly because there is no point.
Get rid of the idiots on ATS and I could name who was left.
Lotta new faces around here.
Very suspicious.
Mostly pointless.
Hardly entertaining.
I come here every day.
Once a week, Maybe, I'll find a legit story.
Seems to me that truth comes in waves and in every wake is nothing worth mentioning.
Looking forward to the culling...