I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

reply to post by Dramey


Click on the blue "Here" in my post that you quoted - that's the place to post concerns.

That's all I was saying



[edit on 26/2/2010 by budski]

I'm in agreement with EMPIRE, actually. Apparently if you insult a member's intelligence it's all fun and games but if someone throws out a petty name call or something, in comes a mod to go "LOLOL OMG U R SO OFFENDSIVE -10.000,000,000 ATS POINTS".

This I never really understood.

As for political trolling...Urgh...Politics are just a troll on what could otherwise be a harmonious environment.

I'm going to try my best not to take the bait. I started out many years ago, urging reason, and consideration.

After dealing with the slings and arrows of "patriotism being questioned" and all that -- I must admit, that sometimes I can fall into the lowest common denominator. We all must look first at ourselves for correct behavior and IGNORE the bad behavior. We try and teach our kids; "Just because Johnny jumps off a cliff doesn't mean YOU have to." And we won't throw Johnny under the bus either.

I would suggest that the people who complain of TROLLS -- us that IGNORE button more often... I plan to. It's something we don't get in the real world, but if enough nonsense gets ignored, there are some folks who are going to think the forum is empty and they can post to dead space.

I'm also going to use it when I answer a reasonable question for the fifth time on Global Warming, for people who have once again, posted that the "Global Cooling theory LOL" when they know it was just one magazine -- I'm gonna use ignore, because there are people who drive me batty because they bring up the same points over and over again like a broken record. That's just an example -- I'm not trying to be political.

I think the BIG PROBLEM underlying the incivility, is that so many issues seem to be shown as irreconcilable. We don't see two people debate things on TV, and then admit that a person was right on one point, and then not so right on another -- and then they COME TO A CONCLUSION. We have no examples of Agreement anymore. It also may be, that we don't respect the other's point of view -- because we find their information suspect. Today, we have information at our fingertips, but there is too much profit in misinformation -- and it's hard to decipher which is which. So we should be patient with people.

The POINT IS, nobody can really know for sure, and whether or not you win an argument on a blog doesn't really matter -- so let's just enjoy the experience and maybe learn something once in a while.

Hopefully, it won't end up being me and some dude in Australia only seeing each other's comments.

Originally posted by Whine Flu
... if someone throws out a petty name call or something, in comes a mod to go "LOLOL OMG U R SO OFFENDSIVE -10.000,000,000 ATS POINTS".

Minus 10 points? ... That doesn't sound so bad.

And I agree with you, mods need to work on their spelling.

(j/k obviously) From what I have seen they try to be as consistent as possible, keep in mind it's not always the same staff logged on and even though they discuss these things some variation in interpretation seems inevitable and understandable.

[edit on 26 Feb 2010 by schrodingers dog]

reply to post by schrodingers dog


Your titles just show the depths which ATS has plumbed - scholar???



Nice to see you s-dog

And yes, inconsistencies will always happen in an environment that has HUMAN and voluntary mods - but that's not to say they don't do a great job

Originally posted by EMPIRE

Firstly, posts that are personal attacks get removed.

Sure they do. Only when the mod interprets it as such.

Here is where I will agree with you Empire. I have called out posts that have been purely attack posts, (by an unnamed poster of course) and yet I still see their posts within the thread I have called out via the 'Report' function.

It is up to the personal discretion of the Mods. Here is where I believe I will depart from your vies as I believe it should be up to the personal discretion of the mods. What should happen is an explanation on how the report made does not break the T&Cs so the person making the report doesn't feel completely shafted.

Usually personal attacks are overlooked by mods when the attacker is someone that has been around for a while here on ATS and the attackee is a newbie or someone getting their feet wet.

A while back I asked the mods to investigate the use of Tea Baggers to be eliminated here. It is a derogatory description of a political movement.

I still see it being used constantly.

Any info from the staff would be appreciated to this comment.

reply to post by endisnighe


Since the political culture sways in an ebb and flow I would guess that some mods see no problem with such a blatant and overt attack while others would be afraid to correct. Just has been my observation of late.

reply to post by neformore

What you are saying is that you want it your way.

No, that is not what I’m saying. We all can’t have a financial stake in this site as it isn’t a publicly traded company and the finances are covered. However, things should be fair and equitable for everyone when it comes to the user experience—it isn’t—and this what myself and others are referring to.

Anything else and you won't be happy.

See above. Also, ATS was here before I came here, and will probably be here after I leave. I don’t want the site to cater to me, if I did, I’d have EMPIRE.COM or something like that.

You attack the volunteer staff because they don't do things how you perceive they should.

I’m not attacking the volunteer staff because they don’t do things how I perceive they should. What I’m openly doing is questioning the motivations of the owner, questioning staff, pointing out the problem and providing solutions to the problem and sharing my experience. However, in doing so, it seems as if you and others perceive my actions as hostile when it’s simply “to the point” constructive criticism. It would be one thing to say, “All ATS mods suck”, but it is another to say, “Several ATS mods are hypocrites, this is why they are hypocrites, this is what hypocrisy causes, but this is how to fix it.”

You attack the board owners because they don't do things how you percieve they should.

See above it’s not an attack.

And by god you want to make damn sure we know you are unhappy about it.

You still don’t get it. It has nothing to do with me and everything to do with people not stepping up to the plate. I’m talking mods, admins, and members who are unwilling to practice some form of self-restraint. That’s all I’ve ever asked for, what other members are continuing to ask for, yet we’re being preached to and pounded for speaking out. We didn’t tell S.O. to make this thread, but I will give credit where credit is due because on many boards, the owners don’t participate and the ban hammer is heavy. In addition, not once have I said there is Nazi Modding going on However, S.O. did make the thread and in doing so opened a can of worms and himself (and ATS) to criticism. Again, what S.O. is referring to as a problem extends beyond the political spectrum and, in order to rectify the problems, corrections must be made at the top. Moreover, it is hard to expect over 180K people, all of various cultures, walks of life, etc to follow or behave as intended, which is why I say people need to lead by example and the example starts at the top. You guys are what 60 – 100 people at the top? You don’t even make 1% of the websites population, yet you guys can’t even get your own act together, so why focus on the little guy?

OK. We get that you aren't happy.

It has nothing to do with my happiness. I’m speaking out because people are afraid to speak out or don’t know how to speak out without getting themselves booted.
S.O. pointed out what he perceived as a problem and I’m taking things a step further and showing you guys exactly what the problem is—your house isn’t clean.

Problem is that ATS has over 185,000 members, and we have to keep them happy too. Its something of a delicate balancing act.

I understand it’s a balancing act, but you seem to think I want people to cater to me but that is not the case. People are agreeing with me. More and more people are now talking about the subject. People have called S.O. out. I’m simply calling it down the middle and not sugar coating it.

And by the way - it sure sounds like ATS is not your favourite place to be.

Why do you keep going there? I spent the last 8 plus years of my life in school, and making moves so I could have free time and a job that allows me to spend a lot of time at home. I did that and now I’m here. If I didn’t like this place I wouldn’t have logged back in, increased my post count, etc. I like this site, which is why I’m telling you guys that if you don’t look at the top first it’s going to haunt you later on down the line.

It takes over 60 staff to run the board. Not one person. Every decision on a post is seen by all staff. Every complaint is seen by all staff.

Now bearing that in mind consider this - ATS is many things to many people.

It is not, should never, and will never be one thing to one persons viewpoint only, and that applies to ALL the points you have raised in this thread, in your complaint thread and in my u2u interactions with you. If you choose not to believe that, there is nothing I can do about it.

Again, ATS shouldn’t be based on one persons viewpoint as we’re all different, from many walks of life, etc. However, where do we draw the line or where do you guys draw the line? I know where I draw the line, and I know when to practice self control, but where do the people at the top draw the line?

We do the best we can as people who volunteer our time.

That’s great, I commend you for that, and like I’ve said, you’re one of the more graceful here. I understand you have to defend your cohorts or not give the appearance that you guys are at odds—I understand how these things work. However, what I’m doing is volunteering my time as a member and pointing out something that you guys have obviously overlooked.

And if saying that makes me a "sanctimonious hypocrite" then here I stand as one for all the world to see.

See above.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

With respect, Political division is both necessary and good.

With all due respect to SO, and others who find the current nature of partisan bickering, perceived gridlock, and ideological division in Washington as well as in the wider US to be a negative or new trend, I disagree with both ideas.

From the beginning of the USA, ideological battles, even venomous, petty, and highly charged battles were the norm. Divisiveness was written into the Constitution specifically to ensure that these types of battles would continue. I submit nothing would have scared the founding fathers more than a truly unified government in which all levels agreed on a single course of action.

The very nature of the government was designed to ensure that those with strong opinions would have every reason to fight for those opinions. The idea that "bipartisanship" should be the highest aim of our Senate and Congress would have been inconceivable to the men and women who fought, sometimes physically, in support of their beliefs during the constitutional convention and after.

Insults, petty name-calling, politically inspired hatred whipped up by partisan news outlets controlled by one party or another were the norm at the beginning of this great republic. And the country was IMHO better for it.

While I realize that running a board requires a level of civility on the point of the posters, and that the site owners can pass any rules they wish too, I simply wanted to point out that in many areas of politics and policy, compromise isn't possible. Could a compromise between abolitionists and slave owners have been possible? What about one between those who, like Roosevelt felt the US had to enter the war in Europe and Isolationists?
Can a protectionist and a free trader really come to a compromise?

Ideology, which I see looked down upon a lot, is at its core nothing more than a basic principle, and I am of the opinion that being principled is a good thing.
Passion is a good thing. Sticking to ones principles is a good thing. Fighting for ones principles is a good thing, and IM humble O, refusing to compromise on something you believe to be fundamentally wrong, is a good thing.

But that's just my opinion, and I make no claims that it is infallible.



P.S. I tried to post this a a separate thread to discuss why political division is good and necessary for a nation, though perhaps not for a message board, but apparently it didn't meet the requirements for a separate thread, so I'm am posting it here at the moderators direction.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
It would be one thing to say, “All ATS mods suck”, but it is another to say, “Several ATS mods are hypocrites, this is why they are hypocrites, this is what hypocrisy causes, but this is how to fix it.”

The problem with that is that it depends on perception. The Kernel's perception from reading this thread is that you complain too much.

However, S.O. did make the thread and in doing so opened a can of worms and himself (and ATS) to criticism.

The Kernel can not fathom the logic of that. This is about trolls, not ATS personnel. However, you just being in this thread make it on topic.

I’m speaking out because people are afraid to speak out or don’t know how to speak out without getting themselves booted.

The Kernel has NEVER been afraid to speak out. The proof? I've got some cheese here for your whine.

Amen! Political trolls are propagandists, and mind washers....

...And here's some Whine Flu for yo' cheese, Kernel:

What the hell is up with that third person talk?!

[edit on 26-2-2010 by Whine Flu]

reply to post by Doglord


That's a great post Doglord, and should have a topic of its own,
too.



[edit on 082828p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by Kernel Korn


While I can appreciate the humor found in your third person voice, I think your baiting tactics leave much to be desired.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
reply to post by Kernel Korn

 

While I can appreciate the humor found in your third person voice, I think your baiting tactics leave much to be desired.

Of course. The Kernel bows to the master. Sorry it looked like I was trying to steal your thunder.

The ignore function works great. I've used it once before and find myself using it again. The problem, however, will still persist as the spirit of idiocy is not something that can be eliminated by the push of a button.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
The ignore function works great. I've used it once before and find myself using it again. The problem, however, will still persist as the spirit of idiocy is not something that can be eliminated by the push of a button.

Uh huh. The mod was right. You care not for an opinion other than your own. It doesn't matter whether you can see this or not. Those reading this thread can. Good thing this thread is about trolls. Hate to get an off topic.

To be fair, I find that EMPIRE made quite more than a few legitimate points. He wasn't really attacking anyone by pointing out that there are some obvious flaws, yet a mod and so many other people were quick to jump onto him and just totally flame him and call him selfish (more or less) just because he could see that there are a few things that could be improved upon. He's not saying this just so he can get people totally riled up. I say he's definitely not trolling...Goddamn I hate that word.

But I guess this is a consequence you face when say something other than "ATS is the best thing to ever happen to the internet". I'm not saying I don't like this site, because if I didn't I would not be here. But seriously, everyone here telling EMPIRE that he's here in this thread now saying that he wants everyone to act according to how he perceives they should act should really be saying that about SO. I believe that this isn't the first time SO has acted upon self-interest. It makes me kinda sick that he can get away with it and people that question him end up copping flack. I'm almost scared to admit this now lest I get banned.

Whatever, though. I'm by no means the greatest poster, but at least I can admit that. Call me a troll, call me whatever, but accept that there are fallacies.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by Whine Flu]

reply to post by Whine Flu


That would be well and good if he didn't post this BS all over the place. Personally the Kernel is getting tired of the old same tune. Not to mention that this thread isn't about what will make ATS better. That's another thread but he's probably posted there more than once already.



[edit on 26-2-2010 by Kernel Korn]