I'm pissed!! (political trolls and hacks)

reply to post by Hedera Helix


I was on the same boat as you. However, I feel that a 'Troll' tag would be fair if it is left up to the discretion of the MODS. I mean, it really is obvious when a troll appears in a political thread. They are never nice and always attack viciously with names and the like.

Do not allow the general populace to have the ability to label them. Just the ability to hit a troll button which would then bring the post in question to the attention of the MODS. That would be a better idea. Then the multiple MODS assigned to each thread will then have the option to vote yes or no on that thread and if say 2 out of 3 or so agree then the person gets a warning. On a second offense they get the tag. On any further offenses they get a small posting ban of say 24 hours which will increase with each offense.

reply to post by dariousg


That sounds alot more reasonable... and could even prove entertaining at some point.

Thank you and well said.

I feel that the mods need to have a tool to slap trolls. I am so tired myself of paging through off topic conversations back and forth. Makes my RSI hurt from mousing to the next valid comment.

Star and Flags for this positive thread!

reply to post by budski


The hypocrisy of the mods and admins, coupled with their hair trigger reactions is part of the problem. Yes we are a community but this is a divided community and the division starts up top. Case in point, a person can tell someone here "your education system has failed you" (due to the person lying, willingly misinterpreting what was stated, etc) and that person will get hit with a -1,000 infraction ding. However, a person can say the most racist, vile and nasty things to other members, get stars up the backside, probably even get U2U's from mods telling them how they did a good job, and nothing really happens.

So forget it. For now on I hope members start taking things in their own hands, and hopefully S.O., Springer and whatever other minions are part of the "ATS STAFF" take notice and clean their own house.

I just find the sycophants here amusing!!

I think that with a little caution here we can all get along and abide by the rules.

But dont be a sycophant...its not appealing.

My political leanings are no mystery to those who have seen me post.

And so it should be no suprise that one of my favorite shows when it was on the air was "West Wing".

Leo talks to his staff:

"Listen up. Our ground game isn't working. We're going to put the ball in the air.

If we're going to walk into walls, I want us running into 'em full speed.

We're going to lose some of these battles.

But we're not going to be threatened by issues. We're going to put them front and center.

We're going to raise the level of public debate in this country. And let that be our legacy."

We're going to lose some of these battles

But we're not going to be threatened by issues

Threatened by the issues?

In the end that is what all of us know...that baiting and name calling, deflection and obfuscation and BS in general is rooted in fear and insecurity.

We either fear we could be in the wrong camp on the issue or that we aren't knowledgable enough to make our case legitimately...

Threatened by the issues.

Play fair and you will lose some battles, but those you win...the victory will be all the sweeter

It would be great to see ATS swim upstream rather than follow the flow of sewage that presently poses as our national discourse in this nation.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
reply to post by budski

 

The hypocrisy of the mods and admins, coupled with their hair trigger reactions is part of the problem. Yes we are a community but this is a divided community and the division starts up top. Case in point, a person can tell someone here "your education system has failed you" (due to the person lying, willingly misinterpreting what was stated, etc) and that person will get hit with a -1,000 infraction ding. However, a person can say the most racist, vile and nasty things to other members, get stars up the backside, probably even get U2U's from mods telling them how they did a good job, and nothing really happens.

So forget it. For now on I hope members start taking things in their own hands, and hopefully S.O., Springer and whatever other minions are part of the "ATS STAFF" take notice and clean their own house.

Honestly, I think you're barking up the wrong tree there

I have always been treated fairly and well when I've kept to the rules.

I've had my wrist slapped when I haven't.

I know for a fact that when a post is reported the mods discuss it and decide what action to take, or not take...

I have been in the position of being insulted, and because I stood my ground and answered in a reasonable manner, with good logic and making my point in the right manner, the mods deemed that "I had handled it and no further action was necessary"

Now, I took umbrage at that and was NOT a happy bunny - but you know what?

The mods were right, and the member was banned a couple of months later because they just couldn't stop insulting people.

In other words, they were given a chance, and they failed to take it.

I was an FSM at the time, which may be why the process worked as it did - whatever, I have no complaints about the moderation here.

It is fair.

reply to post by budski


I have to say i have also
always been treated very fairly here too. When i've had a slap on the wrist its because i've deserved it!

A question for the OP, since this discussion thread opened, has there been any complaints from trolls about being trolled by other trolls, trolling in this thread?

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Case in point, a person can tell someone here "your education system has failed you" (due to the person lying, willingly misinterpreting what was stated, etc) and that person will get hit with a -1,000 infraction ding. However, a person can say the most racist, vile and nasty things to other members, get stars up the backside, probably even get U2U's from mods telling them how they did a good job, and nothing really happens.

Frankly Empire, this is going way way off the beam.

Firstly, posts that are personal attacks get removed.

Secondly, the staff has no control over what gets starred and doesn't.

Thirdly, the type of posts you refer to are routinely removed from the board on a daily - sometimes hourly - basis.

Lastly, the insinuation you made is one born out of complete and utter ignorance and is pure speculation.

Its also grossly insulting to the staff who volunteer their time here and - as someone who has taken considerable personal time to communicate with you in a particularly straight manner in recent weeks (time I could have spent elsewhere I might add) its also particularly disappointing for me to read.

Fact is this, you don't have to post here on ATS. If you despise the board and staff that much then there are plenty of other places you can contribute to.

Originally posted by Crito

Originally posted by thomas_
Would be good if you or the staff took the same initiative regarding religion. Anti-anti-semitism and discrimination of individuals or groups shouldn't be allowed here. Specially when they incite violence or hate in one shape or another.

I agree, al-Qaeda conspiracies theories are just a form of anti-Arab hate speech and shouldn't be tolerated. The word terrorist should never be used next to the word Muslim, ever. Such talk must not be allowed. We don't let people say "Jewish Terrorist" do we? So why do we let people say "Muslim terrorist?"

Playing the smart***... right. If you say "--write your desired religion here-- terrorists" I have no problem with it at all since you are referring to certain individuals (a minority) that happen to be part of that group.

But if you speak "--write your desired religion here-- have a evil agenda to destroy destroy us all and we need to kill them" than my friend I have a huge problem with it. Because by doing that you're generalizing and is not only speaking about a minority within that religion (no matter which one) but speaking about every single individual that happens to be part of that religion.

That my friend is called intolerance, inciting hate and also known as anti-semitism. If you think differently it's up to you.

But by now I would hope that people with internet access that love to proudly write "Deny Ignorance" in their avatars would be a little smarter and learned that we can generalize things to that point.

After all the we have been throughout history people should have learned a little better. But apparently they've learned nothing and will keep repeating that same old record for all the eternity.


Just to add that the Al-Qaeda is a group of fundamentalists and not a religion case you don't know, there is a huge difference between the two.


[edit on 26-2-2010 by thomas_]

[edit on 26-2-2010 by thomas_]

Originally posted by Walkswithfish
A question for the OP, since this discussion thread opened, has there been any complaints from trolls about being trolled by other trolls, trolling in this thread?

Don't know why this post made me smile, troll detroll, troll troll.

Anyway it appears a board decision has been reached.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Boooo no troll buttons

Can you show us an example thread I am intrigued.

I didn't realise there were trolls in the political arena? are we talking about engaging in heated discussion or are we talking about name calling and belittleing? i.e your party doesn't do anything except raise taxes and cream off the top. I know talking about Israel is somewhat frowned upon here but does that include this political troll stance?

reply to post by budski

Honestly, I think you're barking up the wrong tree there

You are entitled to your opinion but I’m speaking from my experience just as you’re speaking from yours.

I have always been treated fairly and well when I've kept to the rules I've had my wrist slapped when I haven't..

Several have been unfortunate and not treated as fairly as you have.

I know for a fact that when a post is reported the mods discuss it and decide what action to take, or not take... I have been in the position of being insulted, and because I stood my ground and answered in a reasonable manner, with good logic and making my point in the right manner, the mods deemed that "I had handled it and no further action was necessary"

I’ll share my most recent experience with you. In a recent thread a person made a claim that a certain group of people were predisposed to certain behaviors and implied it could be genetic. I called the member on it, provided examples that proved the member was full of it and guess what I get? A U2U from a mod accusing me of derailing the thread, arguing just for the sake of arguing and accusing me of constantly derailing threads. Now mind you, the madness the poster actually made did pertain to the topic, so how would I be off topic if my questions were derived from what was previously stated? I have proof of all of this as the thread is still active and the U2U’s are still in my box. I told the mod they were violating the U2U T&C and to stop sending me U2U’s. It worked, but I probably have an asterix by my name now.

So after that episode, I made a really great thread detailing much of the lunacy and hypocrisy that is not only killing this board, and country, but our planet. I sent it to the ATS staff and they replied shortly afterwards. The mod who replied, however, was a bit more forgiving, typed up a long response in response to my second response, and I’ve since held back on making the thread. However, the timing is strange as this thread, and the U2U I sent them are awfully close together.

Now, I took umbrage at that and was NOT a happy bunny - but you know what? The mods were right, and the member was banned a couple of months later because they just couldn't stop insulting people.

See above. Mods and admins only see what they want to see. Why do you think S.O. made this thread? Because he wants to see what he wants to see, and ATS staff have shown they only want to see what they want to see.

In other words, they were given a chance, and they failed to take it. I was an FSM at the time, which may be why the process worked as it did - whatever, I have no complaints about the moderation here. It is fair.

Again, the bias and preference shown by many of those in charge is part of the problem. When I made my thread, and responded to the mod that was showed some form of integrity, I made sure to tell them that my thread and U2U’s were not about Nazi Modding, etc. However, I did use a mod as an example because part of my threads premise was devoted to hypocrisy and how it creates division. Now knowing my thread would probably cause a problem (which however was not my intention) I sent it in first, told them I would wait 72 hours before posting it, and had other members in mind when I did it. See, I'm thinking about others, not just of myself, but there is only so much people will take before the gloves come off and they go for broke.

Fair? Fair depends on how you look at it. Nothing is “fair” things simply are, and we either adjust to compensate or we get left in the dust. It has become obvious to me that S.O., and the other guys at the top want this site to go a certain way, but the holier than thou garbage needs to cease. More members need to start stepping up to the plate, voicing their opinion, and letting these guys know exactly how they feel without fear of ban, suspension, infraction points, etc.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by neformore

Frankly Empire, this is going way way off the beam.

No it isn’t neformore.

Firstly, posts that are personal attacks get removed.

Sure they do. Only when the mod interprets it as such.

Secondly, the staff has no control over what gets starred and doesn't.

Actually, they have indirect control in the form of agreeing with sheer madness and allowing the madness to fester and collect more stars. Why do you not see this as contributing to the problem? If someone makes a post, a downright nasty post, and it gets 20 stars, and doesn’t get removed, that sends a message to several people: 1. it tells the poster they can get away with highway robbery and that because people starred them they should continue. 2. It tells the person giving the star to find more posts like the ones they previously starred and to star those. 3. It tells the people who are offended that being offended doesn’t matter and they should have tough skin. Ok, great. Now when those people take the gloves off and go tit for tat why is it they're the bad guys?

Thirdly, the type of posts you refer to are routinely removed from the board on a daily - sometimes hourly - basis.

Sure.

Lastly, the insinuation you made is one born out of complete and utter ignorance and is pure speculation.

No, it’s a logical assessment derived from reading some of the comments openly posted by mods and my own experience with certain mods.

Its also grossly insulting to the staff who volunteer their time here and - as someone who has taken considerable personal time to communicate with you in a particularly straight manner in recent weeks (time I could have spent elsewhere I might add) its also particularly disappointing for me to read.

It was very insulting to have one of your staff send me a highly inappropriate U2U. But I guess you missed that memo huh? Nope, you didn't because you replied and I've stated several times already that you handled it with integrity and grace. It was your response, and taking the time out to address it, that prevented me from making the thread. You and I both know that potential thread could have caused problems, and again, because you replied and because I had others in mind, I held off. So I will give *you* that. However, I can't say the same for your cohorts, and can only tell you that in time, more and more people are going to question this place and they will question the people at the top.

Fact is this, you don't have to post here on ATS.

Fact is, you don’t have to tell me that. I’ve been a member of this site for years and only made my first post in August of 2009. I know I don’t have to post here, now what do you hope to gain by telling me this?

If you despise the board and staff that much then there are plenty of other places you can contribute to.

Why do you confuse being open and calling it how it is with despising this place? I’m telling you what I see as a problem and I’m offering you a solution to fix the problem. However, many people here, wish to stand on a soap box and feign righteousness, and I’m not going to sit idly by and watch the sanctimonious hypocrites do it under the veil of “deny ignorance.” So if it’s you, S.O. or any other mod, admin or member of ATS, it doesn’t matter. I’m calling it for what it is.

[edit on 26-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

[edit on 26-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

[edit on 26-2-2010 by EMPIRE]

reply to post by EMPIRE


OK, I've said all I have to say, and I'm replying only out of courtesy.

This isn't the place to address your concerns, and nor is it my place - u2u the mods, and open a reasonable dialogue.

Alternatively, post in the thread here

Hope this helps

reply to post by budski


See, this is a prime example of what I'm talking about. You go on to tell me about your experiences and downplay mine, yet when I tell you about my experiences and tell you I did send a U2U, you tell me to send a U2U...

reply to post by EMPIRE


I'm not downplaying anything mate.

I'm simply saying that this is not the place to address your concerns, and nor is it my place to address them, because I am not staff.

It really is as simple as that.

It's your concern, not mine, and I'm not getting into it.

That's my last word on the matter.

Originally posted by EMPIRE
Why do you confuse being open and calling it how it is with despising this place? I’m telling you what I see as a problem and I’m offering you a solution to fix the problem. However, many people here, wish to stand on a soap box and feign righteousness, and I’m not going to sit idly by and watch the sanctimonious hypocrites do it under the veil of “deny ignorance.” So if it’s you, S.O. or any other mod, admin or member of ATS, it doesn’t matter. I’m calling it for what it is.

What you are saying is that you want it your way.

Anything else and you won't be happy.

You attack the volunteer staff because they don't do things how you perceive they should.

You attack the board owners because they don't do things how you percieve they should.

And by god you want to make damn sure we know you are unhappy about it.

OK. We get that you aren't happy.

Problem is that ATS has over 185,000 members, and we have to keep them happy too. Its something of a delicate balancing act.

And by the way - it sure sounds like ATS is not your favourite place to be.

It takes over 60 staff to run the board. Not one person. Every decision on a post is seen by all staff. Every complaint is seen by all staff.

Now bearing that in mind consider this - ATS is many things to many people.

It is not, should never, and will never be one thing to one persons viewpoint only, and that applies to ALL the points you have raised in this thread, in your complaint thread and in my u2u interactions with you. If you choose not to believe that, there is nothing I can do about it.

We do the best we can as people who volunteer our time.

And if saying that makes me a "sanctimonious hypocrite" then here I stand as one for all the world to see.

Originally posted by budski
reply to post by EMPIRE

 

OK, I've said all I have to say, and I'm replying only out of courtesy.

This isn't the place to address your concerns, and nor is it my place - u2u the mods, and open a reasonable dialogue.

Alternatively, post in the thread here

Hope this helps

this may not be applicable here but i just wanted to point something out

the words "this isnt the place to address your concerns"

those words show up a lot on ats and that is bothersome, ive created a few threads that really should be in the place i put them, because all of the members should see certain things that are taking place

but those threads are always closed and someone u2us you that you should address it somewhere else and they provide a link

usually the link is to an area that few people seldom see, an area that usually gets overlooked, and into an area that hardly ever gets a reply acknowledging the situation


many times ive been told we dont put those kinds of topics here because then there would be 100 of those topics everyday

well if theres that many threads on the subject, seems it must be an important subject