Joe Stack Hailed as Hero in American "patriot" resurgence -ABC news

didnt go through all the posts so this might be a double post, if not here is a nice little article from the new york daily news.



www.nydailynews.com...

I would just like to say for the record that in my humble opinion NONE of us is innocent.

Small children are innocent. Dogs and cats are innocent, Punxsutawney Phil is innocent.

We are not innocent, and certainly no one working in any capacity for the government or the IRS is innocent.

Do you people realize that our tax dollars go to killing people who have never harmed us or have any intention to half way around the world?

Do you people realize that our tax dollars go to warehousing entire generations of inner-city youth that there are no real jobs for who turn to black market drug running, a victimless crime and that drugs were never even made illegal until the 1920’s when select corporations decided they were cutting into the things they would prefer to be our vices?

None of us is innocent. We have all for the most part blindly accepted and paid for a government that over the past several decades has become increasingly out of touch with the people, exists for corporations, and projecting American corporate power abroad violently through military endeavors we fund.

Were the two IRS employees in that building just doing their jobs as clerks? Clerks to a system that funds the violent deaths of people around the world, that incarcerates more people per capita than any other society on earth, that sentences to death more people than any other society on earth, a system that robs us all of over 50% of our income in State, Local, Federal, Sales Taxes, Licensing and Insurances and seeks to regulate almost every aspect of our existence from the food we eat to how we are entertained? Yes they were.

Goebbels and Himmler said they were just doing their jobs too.

None of us is innocent, and the sad truth is a lot of us want that distinction even though we almost all pay to have bombs dropped on innocent men, women and children in other parts of the world every day of the week, week in and week out, year in and year out.

That the inclination to absolve oneself is as strong as it is, is natural, it certainly was at Nuremburg too.

That the inclination to say well my crimes against humanity aren’t as significant as someone like that and I am relatively innocent therefore technically innocent.

No your not!

No I am not.

If you are over 18 and pay taxes you aren’t innocent, complacent maybe but not innocent, in denial maybe but not innocent, full of skewered and hypocritical values but not innocent.

There is a storm a brewing, a mighty storm, and it’s a global storm, and it is brewing because the truth of the matter is none of us is innocent. We all brought it on.

So for you out there who think you are innocent, really truly innocent, go look in the mirror and try being honest with yourself for once in your lives.

I am here to tell you that you are not innocent and neither were the employees working for the IRS.

By the way the actual government infrastructure costs 11% of the budget, everything else goes to war and pork.
Think about that.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
I would just like to say for the record that in my humble opinion NONE of us is innocent.

So because we all committed inevitable mistakes in our pasts, we deserve to die for somebodies political stunt. Nice.

Do you people realize that our tax dollars

When last did your taxes increase? I can only seem to the recall tax cuts for the last 30 years.

Goebbels and Himmler said they were just doing their jobs too.

Goebbels and Himmler assisted in mass killings. IRS workers are paper pushers, doing a job, probably with little other option during these depressive times other than lower waged jobs. Did the IRS workers come into your house and kill your family? Its astounding how you can go ahead and compare the horrors of nazi Germany to a bunch of paperpushing tax collectors folks scapegoat for their ideological issues. I mean seriously where'd this misguided anger come from? Who are you listening to? Why dont you go to a holocaust survivor and ask them if the IRS paper pushers are just as worse as the killers who hunted them down.

The conservatives have nothing on what many people went through during world war two. It is insulting to see you compare your own petty little ideological issue with the genocide of millions in the 1940's.


[edit on 20-2-2010 by Southern Guardian]

Originally posted by Blaine91555
reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi

 

Bull, he tried to kill employees doing their jobs according to their job descriptions.

The Tea Party connection was just debunked on the news. He never had any involvement.

I'm personally very familiar with the tax code his rant was about. What he was trying to do was get away with avoiding payroll taxes and having taxes withheld from his income and having to make his quarterly deposits. This complex code he wrote about a child could understand, if they wanted to. I had to adjust my own business to comply when the rules changed for 1099's. Do you even know what that is yourself?

He lied about the rich being able to get away with the scam he tried to pull. In fact that was a bald faced lie.

He lied and got caught. Then he took the cowards way out after he got caught. Cowards are not hero's. He was just a sleazy jerk, trying to scam the system. Then he attempted a mass murder. Thank God he was not more successful.

He did nothing to the government. He changed nothing. He cared about nobody. He only hurt innocent people.

To defend that is insane.

Here Here!

So well put, and something that rings so true to these ears of mine.

reply to post by Southern Guardian


Remember... Proto doesn't pay taxes...


or so he/she claims....

Originally posted by HunkaHunka
reply to post by Southern Guardian

 

Remember... Proto doesn't pay taxes...


or so he/she claims....

I don't do a lot of things other people do. I believe in my right to self determination. The constitution says I am allowed to enjoy that.

Of course they said that before they subsequently put 600,000 codes and laws on the books designed to determine almost every aspect of your existence and to heavily influence and control people’s determinations.

Still when you are but a lump of protoplasm floating in an endless sea of light and darkness its hard to take such people and attempts seriously.

The Central Government was designed to be a weak and non-invasive arbiter of disputes and was to be funded by contributions from the state except during in times of war declared by Congress.

Most of what Washington D.C. has done since the onset of the Civil War is entirely unconstitutional and as such illegal.

It has turned into a parasitical system that is on the verge of devouring the host body.

Cows, horses, sheep and other herd animals simply swing at flies and other parasites with their tails or attempt to scratch or bite them off.

Humans have taken this a step further and developed something called Raid.

The propaganda and brainwashing and emotional domination that the Media and the Government uses is good, and it’s worked a long time rather well at separating fools from their money, fools from their liberties, fools from their rights and fools from their own self determination.

Yet there is an old saying if you give someone an inch they are bound to take a mile and the government and the corporations have taken that proverbial mile.

They have in fact been given and taken enough rope to hang themselves with it and foolishly themselves stand on the verge of doing just that through their unbridled and unmitigated greed and arrogance.

They can continue to pretend, and continue to rely on the more herd like and brainwashed and docile and subservient amongst us to try to apply peer pressure on their contemporaries.

But the truth is that should they continue down that path they are in danger of a Raid, a Raid on Washington to turn it back into some sensible system that fairly considers and works for the people.

I know some of you are caught up in petty and superficial personality cults of political celebrities but rest assured some of us want no Master no matter how good looking, smooth, suave, sophisticated or personable he might seem to be.

Some of us are free human beings who understand precisely what self determination means.

No need for you to try to make determinations on my behalf or in regards to me Hunka.

You see where Protoplasmic Traveler is concerned I make my own determinations and always have and always will.

And yes I beat the IRS because I determined it was amoral to pay for or contribute to this system and as far as I am concerned it is.

I beat them fair and square because I understand that what isn’t constitutional requires me agreeing to the legitimacy of the system and contracting into it.

I don’t and I won’t.

Freedom isn’t for everyone Hunka a lot of people don’t want nor can handle its responsibilities.

Such people shouldn’t be deciding what’s right for others.

It’s going to get worse before it get’s better because the system lacks the human flexibility good government requires.

Sure if you need an exception because you are a Hilary Clinton or a John McCain Congress will always be glad to pick up and vote on a special bill to help make sure you are eligible and entitled to this status and position or that.

For everyone else, it truly is taxation without representation and that my dear Hunka is why the Revolutionary War was fought in the first place.

Moving forward the government continues to ignore, refuse and deny the people increasingly at its own peril and that is precisely what all such corrupt and amoral institutions ultimately face.

How could you believe, why would you believe it would be any different?


[edit on 20/2/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler]

It looks like that since you guys elected Obama, you feel lost and confused. I mean, I can't remember the Dems creating such havoc in the news after Bush got re-elected and taking out of old chests texts written back in the late 18Th Century claiming that militias formed of people had to take the government down if the government failed.
See, it was written when the global population on the planet was not even a half-billion. Now we're like 7 billion, so many opinions to take into account...

This guy in his plane was a jerk. I can't believe he became overnight a symbol of the fight against the government. Go tell that to the 2 dead people's family. They had a #ty job pushing papers and suddenly they get a plane in their office. Just because some nutjob can't accept being stripped off his savings for some reason. Come on, this is total bs.

I'm glad he's a nazi hero for those KKK groups and Nazi Party and whatever. That gives a pretty good view of their philosophy. Destroy everything. How smart...Look what Hitler got in return for doing # back in the 30's. Eventually the nazis get their asses kicked.

You people, who actually support attacking and trying to kill your fellow man?
seriously need to get some help.

simply fact is actions such as these are never acceptable no matter how pissed off you get


if i have a bad day i have the right to go out and try to kill dozens of people? I THINK NOT

get a #ing clue and use some self restraint


people supporting such actions are truly sickening and are the worst kind of scum.

why is alex jones claiming he KNEW this would happen straight away....when the very first thing he said about this was that the pilot probably just had a heart attack and that it was nothing?

i like listening to him but he REALLY needs to hold himself up to the same high standards he claims he wants to see in others.....100% honesty..

he is NOT an honest person..and thats a shame

Do you guys remember when people would get chastised for not saying the pledge of allegiance in school?

I pledge allegiance, to your plan, that I will let you brainwash me,
and to the government, for which I pay, one nation, under money,
without liberty, but with injustice for all.

It's obvious when you break down the day to day routines of any american at any age, just how controlled we truly are or are being taught to accept.

[edit on 2/20/2010 by heckler]

A couple points.. 1. Last time I checked suicide is considered a CRIME in most places around the world. 2. Typical ppl blame others for their LACK OF RESPONSIBILITY and blame others rather than be ACCOUNTABLE for their own actions . Typical in the u.s the past several years. Yes the u.s government is corrupt and needs change but VIOLENCE IS NOT THE SOLUTION . There are ways within the system to make change.
Take the time to actually read and study the constititution rather than just blindly quote. 3. To all the fools and idiots bent on using force what will you do to set up / run a VIABLE and NON-CORRUPT GOVERNMENT in the event that you beat the near impossible odds and "won" your "revolution" ? Have any of you thought that far ahead ? Or are you to busy with talking violence which will only result in senseless killing.. There are NO winners in wars ppl EVERYONE loses. But if you want to throw your lives away and the lives of those around you committing actions that are just as bad as those you are against rather than work to make change via the constitution as set out by the founding fathers.. Take a long hard look and think. FACT most of you are NO MATCH for well armed and trained troops you will lose. But evidently stupidity is one of your rights. Take time to think and look at the big picture rather than just going off and creating bigger problems.

Hey Shinsengumi,

They already have a plan for the NEW Gov't. There is an outline and rules and everything. The revolutionaries have it all figured out. They have this document...

...and they call it "The Constitution".

Of course all the names have to be changed, you know... to protect the innocent.

Originally posted by Gakus
You people, who actually support attacking and trying to kill your fellow man?
seriously need to get some help.

......

people supporting such actions are truly sickening and are the worst kind of scum.

The USA is still alive and kicking because lots of Americans "actually supported attacking and trying to kill ..." -- starting with the Revolutionary War, through WWI, WWII, etc.

And "innocent" people get killed (like the IRS worker) in the process. Most of the deaths in any conflict are "innocent".

You sound like one of the "Zombies" that Joe Stack was against -- millions and millions of such "I'm OK, You're OK" zombies are walking and sitting all over the USA, all over the World.

[edit on 20-2-2010 by etcorngods]

A "hero" ..... really?

Some of my heros never tried to fly a plane into a building because he was angry over money.

This is nuts.

Man kills himself over money.....leaves his family homeless, and emotionally distraught to be sure, over......money. And people deem him a hero because THAT is standing up to the government? Really?

Wow.

Well, he's not my hero. And his "sacrifice" is not for me and mine.

I have far more interests in life than money and how many toys I can have before I die and leave this world.

Joe Stack had some really messed up priorities. That's all.


[edit on 20-2-2010 by Asherah]

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi
I wouldn't call him a "hero", but I applaud his efforts and sympathize with his feelings towards what is happening to this country.

What is amazing to me is how people salute the founding fathers for what they did and in the same breath condemn men like Joseph Stack. It's absolute hypocrisy.

Do people not realize the founding fathers fought against their own government? Do people not realize the founding fathers led an armed and violent revolution? Do people not realize the founding fathers too killed innocents to achieve their goals?

The American Revolution was not the United States vs Great Britain. It was the people of Great Britain vs the government of Great Britain, much like these sort of attacks are the people of the United States vs the government of the United States.

"That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government"

Don't abandon your rights just when you begin to need them the most. Armed revolution is the only answer. It may not be the pretty one, the sound one, or the humane one, but the reality is it is the only one.

That is what we're faced with now in this country. The criminals who have bought and sold our country and our future have to answer for what they have done. No one is better able or more deserving to make them answer for it than us.

As far as I see it, everyone has two options: They can continue to support the status quo and thus continue to be robbed of every aspect of the lives they wish to live, or they can fight against the status quo and thus hold on to every aspect of their lives they wish to live.

This is the new reality.

Speaking as one Anarchist to another, I don't think killing innocent people is necessary to the goals of a revolution. When fighting a revolution you're supposed to be targeting those who have TARGETED innocent people, hunting the hunters, NOT accepting random/arbitrary collateral damage as a terrorist military would. Look at the ALF/ELF... they've never killed anybody, and it's not because they just "haven't screwed up yet" like some self-aggrandizing idiot at the FBI stated, it's because their direct rule is NOT to harm innocent people or kill people at all. I think a revolt, whether on a tiny individual level or a large-scale level is made EXTREMELY nobler when innocent life is spared and valued. There is power in efficient ethical precision.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Unless he is a soldier in the war...he attempted to murder innocent people doing their job, thats it.

He was no soldier, he was a IT guy. America is not in the grip of a war. He targetted specifically an office building full of regular joes and janes doing their job, thinking about the barbecue on the weekend, etc...and slammed the plane into it, with the hopes of murdering these people simply because of who they work for.

Like someone flipping out that their grandmother died from a heart attack and to targetting McDonalds for selling dangerous food, blowing up a bunch of minimum wager locals for your own personal war.

Any defense of his actions should be met with contempt. I feel for him that he gave his life up verses getting a therapist and an accountant, but he deserves no praise...I suspect his newly homeless family, the widow and the fatherless daughter, thinks the same at this point.

How completely one-sided and obtuse your view is.

Whilst I disagree with his chosen method, this man is no different from countless "Heroes" of the past.

Also, I'd like to know what device you're using to be able to glean this mans intentions from the comfort of your armchair.

I think if everyone threw a paper airplane at an IRS building... during the day, or middle of the night, all over the country.... hundreds or even thousands of paper airplanes all over the lawns and sidewalks of IRS buildings... it might send a message that the sentiment is shared, even though the violence is not. The IRS needs to change or go away. The income tax needs to end and all related IRS debt forgiven.

As much as I share this guy's disdain for the IRS... I still believe there are peaceful ways to encourage the media to take up the issue. People just have to be creative. Picket signs don't work anymore. They're the cliche of protests. Have to try something different... I think paper airplanes, but if someone has a better idea....

reply to post by spiritualzombie




I like that idea. Even better, get some 1 bills, fold them up into airplanes then toss them at the building. Think about it, money talks, that'll show em we mean business. Don't worry I'll handle the cleanup when its over

Seriously though, a star for that idea

Originally posted by RHX2112
Stack's actions were selfish and stupid. You are not a hero if you take innocent lives. Also, for someone who thinks the tax system and financial system of this country is so unfair, he sure screwed the Texas taxpayers. Who did he think was going to have to pay to clean up his mess?

So why do we treat American soldiers who kill innocent people/children/woman/baby's in Iraq as Hero's

But many are comeing back now in tears asking for forgiveness, , if you watch these you tube Anti War statements, made by soldiers comeing home from Iraq popping up everywhere you look.

Joe Stack was makeing a statement, and he did it without takeing any lives, other than his own, (wait all the sudden it's now he also killed a VET who had 6 kids? talk about a perfect story), do we really have confirmation on this. If so , should we really even believe it?

But really, if Mr. Stack wanted to kill as many people as possible as some are saying rather ingnorantly; there are much better , easier ways.

He was targetting the IRS. The IRS was his enemy, and unfortunately that makes those who work for the IRS these so called "9-5er's" his enemy too. That makes perfect sense to me, whether I agree with Joe or not. I don't see how people aren't understanding this point???

Really, if h wanted to kill as many IRS workers, maybe even the president of that building. He wouldn't have set his house on fire, to give them prior warning, and he coulda walked into the building with a couple assault rifles and a couple semi handguns and taken dozens of lives. Think about that. I'm sure he did, he seemed an intelligent man.

His point was not murder. It was mainly to make a point and have it heard, and commit suicide, and he accomplished that with only one possible people dieing other than himself.

Our government with all it's "smart weaspons" still needs to blow up schools and hospitals, and pharma companies *oops*(bad intel, but thats ok) to try and get a point heard by as many.

How anyone can defend the American government(and it's armies and all that work for the US government) which has millions and millions of innocent lives blood on it's hands, but looks down on Mr. Stack as a killer of innocents, needs some brain rewiring. One might say he was driven to this, and I HIGHLY DOUBT he'll be the last, or the worst.

Now if only the Higher Ups who send these kids to Iraq to war and kill innocent civilians HAD to KILL themselves in the process, then we might have something.=)

Soon your gonna realize who the real enemy is, when the SHTF, but let's hope most Americans do before that, and not after. Cause after...., it'll be too late.




[edit on 20-2-2010 by Nola213]

Well what does the government expect? They have been pissing Americans off to no end, after awhile people realize that holding signs does nothing. The little guy didn't do this, Its the governments fault, their backing people into a corner. People are starting to get pissed.