Joe Stack Hailed as Hero in American "patriot" resurgence -ABC news

reply to post by Stormdancer777


When a person works for another persons target, those person are not innocent, those persons are enemy combatants. The IRS workers there are part and parcel of the machine that he was aming at. Saying those people are perfectly innocent would be like saying that soldiers of the enemy country are innocent since, after all, the target is the enemy country, not it's soldiers. The whole concept that someone that works for the IRS in the context of Stacks attack on the IRS offices is an innocent is assinine at best, disingenuous at worst. In any conflict, whether it be between countries, corporations, individuals, etc... All persons that work for, give aid to, and enable the enemy to wage war against you are enemy combatants. In your context, bombing a factory that is manned by civilians is an atrocity, not a production stopping means. That's war. Just because the person wears a suit, dress, has a SUV, mortgage payment, is 'just like us', etc... does not mean that they are not viable targets to these people.

I do not support the idea that Joe Stack flew his plane into a building trying to kill everyone. That will never solve anything.

However, reading his suicide letter or rant I have to agree there are many credible facts into what he is saying. Anyone reading Joes’ letter can feel his frustration against a system that is failing. Sure, the IRS screwed up on him, you all would be pretty pissed off to, if it were any of you.

I do not admire his actions by trying to take as many people with him to his death, in fact I find it despicable.

I am surprised that there are so many people awake and do realizes the whole system is very corrupt. It will be interesting to see how much more (we the people) will continue to take before it all comes crashing down.

I am so glad we have the internet, can you all imagine how dumb down we all would be without it. It is the only thing that our media and government does not have control of yet, like they do with the mainstream media.








[edit on 19-2-2010 by impressme]

reply to post by Stormdancer777


if you follow the news much you will have read that us soldiers recently deliberately targeted a house full of woman and children and explained it by saying that there "may have" been taliban in the house as well.. at first the story said that it had missed its target but then recanted that and explained they had did it deliberately.... us marines deliberately killed woman and children to get what may have been a few taliban in the house as well, which remains unconfirmed... we do it all the time in pakistan with drones to get at taliban officials there... we kill innocents indescriminately all the time and most americans have no problem with that... i dont see how this is any different... you might say something like, well maybe those people were helping the taliban.... to that i say, more than likely they were... and again, i dont see how this was any different...

reply to post by SpacePunk



I guess my idea of war and a warrior are different then yours,



I have had dealings with the IRS and YES, they suck , I don't like the way our government handles things,





[edit on 072828p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

reply to post by TheCoffinman



Yes, I knew that, that happened, and that it happens,

It breaks my heart.

I'm curious. To all of you people that say Stack's actions in flying a plane into the building were unacceptable what would you have him do? In his mind none of "his" elected officials would help him. His lifes future had been severely altered by government/IRS devastating his retirement savings. Then the very government that would not do anything for him uses his tax money to bail out a bunch of people that he didn't want to pay for.

I'm not advocating his actions as correct and proper, but I'm wondering what citizens have left as recourse when all else seems to fail.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


I'm former military, and I know history. So, yeah, our ideas probably differ. My idea isn't some starry eyed look at the world. Warfare is a down and dirty deal. Things are done in warfare that are no where near being good... even to those that commit the acts. I'll risk Godwining this thing. Take the bombing of Dresden, for instance. 'We' killed, and targeted civilians. Civilians that had mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, and other family... just like us. There was no other reason for that bombing other than to put fear and terror into the hearts of the German citizens. There's no way around it. When it is 'us' that do it, I cannot in all honesty condemn someone else that does it. Conflict whether it's between countries, or between one guy and a large organization is ugly.

reply to post by SpacePunk


There is a way around.
The fact is, what most people do is serve the ideas.
It is ideas that rule and use humans as fuel for their own "survival". That is a fact. And it is not true that we use the ideas. We are hardly the masters of our lives and of this planet. We are just another fuel, like oil or coal.
And all those criminal actions are "justified" by ideas. That is also a fact.
So all we do is hide behind this "duty" thing and it grants us "innocence".

No wonder people are so helpless, since they don't understand this simple and plain in the light thing.

reply to post by SpacePunk


I understand spacepunk, my husband is a vet, the sad thing is I don't have any answers, this is the way it has been since time immemorial,

That is why some hold onto the hope that one day," we will turn our swords into plow shears."





[edit on 072828p://bFriday2010 by Stormdancer777]

The lame stream media never misses an opportunity to try to associate criminal acts with the patriot movement. The have no credibility with the average American anymore, so I would just ignore the article.
It is interesting that the same lame stream media gave all of Obama's appointee tax-evaders a free pass, even though they were also criminal acts. No sane person, IMHO, approves of what Stack did, but to associate him with the patriot movement is an absolute example of left-wing propaganda, on par with Joe Goebbels. Next thing they'll do is associate him with those who oppose AGW.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


But why do they get so many opportunities? Why do they take them? Hmmm? Most surely they're trying to build up its reputation almost to superhuman status.

jus thought id remind people of this:

The Federal Bureau of Investigation earlier this year launched a nationwide operation targeting white supremacists and "militia/sovereign-citizen extremist groups," including a focus on veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan, according to memos sent from bureau headquarters to field offices.

online.wsj.com...

A new report from Secretary Napolitano categorizes returning Military Veterans and those individuals that are proponents of “States Rights” or those that oppose the growth of the Federal Government as “Right Wing Extremists”.

mcauleysworld.wordpress.com...

the 9 page DHS report can be found here: wnd.com...

reply to post by TheCoffinman

A new report from Secretary Napolitano categorizes returning Military Veterans and those individuals that are proponents of “States Rights” or those that oppose the growth of the Federal Government as “Right Wing Extremists”.

Using that definition, I proudly consider myself a "Right Wing Extremist".

a quote from an original right-wing extremist:

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen." -Sam Adams

its as if hes talking directly to some of you on ATS isnt it..

and so the revolution begins joe stack is the new martyr to the dissolutioned
kind of feel sorry for the tptb lets see what they distract us with to prevent civil war......
disclosure maybe

I think we are still years away from "revolution". While Joe Stack, due to his letter or "manifesto" as its being called has definately heated up the debate. I would imagine the original founders of our nation discussed how long it would be before a revolution would occur as well.

While I have the stump for a minute let me just say this regarding our "American System" here in the United States. Some say our way of governing, while flawed, is still the best...But that's like saying my car with only three wheels is still more operable than cars with two wheels...The point is that it still doesn't work.

I think many people are waking up to that fact now.

reply to post by TheCoffinman


Includes typical "extremist" dogma from the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Anti-govt manifesto, yes, "right-wing", no.
Accord to what he wrote in his Manifesto, Stack held some views that are easily compatible with "left-wing" policy positions.

reply to post by TheCoffinman

It is getting to the point that if anyone who voices their opinions of negativity against our government can, or will be considered extremists.

Looks to me, when you have a corrupt government out of control, they will use whatever measures to silent the people who disagree in what they are doing.
They find the media very helpful in this case.

I am just waiting any day now, that congress is going to pass a bill to squash freedom of speech altogether, while we all sit here and do absolutely nothing.

BTW, has anyone seen my tar and feather bucket?

reply to post by TheCoffinman

The MSM is attempting to associate this incident in any way possible to the "Tea Party" movement that is threatening to pluck the ingrown hair of liberalism..

This loser was in no way associated with the Tea party movement but you see countless associations by words and not by fact.

Pathetic.

This waste of Human flesh is a hero in his own eyes and no one elses.

Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by NovusOrdoMundi

Originally posted by kennylee
Something needs to be done but killing innocent people isn't the way to do it.

He did not target innocent people. His motive and his objective was to send a message to the federal government and to the people of this country.

There is a difference between the targeting of innocent people and collateral damage. The US military uses it every time they blow up a school full of children.

Unless he is a soldier in the war...he attempted to murder innocent people doing their job, thats it.

He was no soldier, he was a IT guy. America is not in the grip of a war. He targetted specifically an office building full of regular joes and janes doing their job, thinking about the barbecue on the weekend, etc...and slammed the plane into it, with the hopes of murdering these people simply because of who they work for.

Like someone flipping out that their grandmother died from a heart attack and to targetting McDonalds for selling dangerous food, blowing up a bunch of minimum wager locals for your own personal war.

Any defense of his actions should be met with contempt. I feel for him that he gave his life up verses getting a therapist and an accountant, but he deserves no praise...I suspect his newly homeless family, the widow and the fatherless daughter, thinks the same at this point.

But if he WAS a soldier, his actions would be commended? Please! How many soldiers murder innocent humans daily? Don't kid yourself.

Back to the subject at hand, if you read the letter he wrote, and if it was truly he who wrote the letter, he does not sound to me like a wacko on any level. He is articulate and composed, whether or not you agree with his message. I think he was like MOST Americans who are fed up and didn't know of a more effective way to get his point across. He was not wrong in his plight. My heart is saddend that a man who was clearly AWAKE felt he had no other recourse but to end his life. And be it wrong or right, I admire him and can sympathize.

Unfortunately or fortunately, I believe this is just one of many more to come.

[edit on 19-2-2010 by UnityFT]