Rape? It's the fault of the victims, say 50 per cent of women

This is a horrible statistic - but who knows how true?

I just don't believe it is true.

As a market research executive, I know that only a small percentage of the sample are asked the crucial question, and the results are rounded up or down.

A lot depends on where, and to whom, questions are directed.

If over half of women are blaming rape victims, that is reprehensible.

How did 54% suddenly become 50%?

What a load of contrived garbage.

Originally posted by rcwj1975
I have had 2 court cases go through this year on trials for rapes that occured last year. Both men convicted and sentenced. Some are pending as we speak. Understand very, VERY, few rape cases get media attention, unless your a well to do person or have some ties that the gossip machine wants to exploit.

I'm glad there are convictions and relieved to hear that few get media attention. The worry is a nasty defence team digging for dirt and putting a sexual history on tv.

Yes we DO charge for false claims, BUT the kick in the nuts to the men is its only a misdemeanor charge to the women. That means USUALLY a fine, court costs, and a year probation. Laws need changing IMO!!!

See THIS I agree with. I see alot of people carrying on about rape victims being liars (and femnazis bla bla bla) when they should really be protesting government to make laws tougher. I see a fake rape claim as being comparable to what a real rape victim has to go through post rape. I'm told rape victims get raped "all over again" in a courtroom and while a man facing a false rape charge is not being physically violated he is emotionally and publically and it should be treated as such. When a rape victim is branded a "slut" she gets some vindication when he is sent to prison.. innocent men should be vindicated as well. Why isn't it covered under perjury? When someone signs a charge sheet isn't that the same as an affidavit?

Some have followed through with rape kits and then it was found to be a false claim. Obviously when the nurse/doc come tell use there are NO signs of force that is when the heat is turned up on her. I will say asking some of the fakes to submit to a rape kit is funny because they will sit there and come up with UNBELIEVABLE reasons as to why they can't have it done or go through with it. Then of course the truth comes out and thats that.

Thats what I had suspected. I did not think (false) rape charges would be all that common as rape needs to be proven first yes? If a woman has just been violated.. having it done again medically wouldn't be fun. I would like to think that if I were in that situation (knock on wood) I would go get a rape kit done but I imagine the "dirty" feeling would prompt me to go shower asap. If a woman has not been raped she'd be feeling like her lies are getting a bit too deep for her.

After a few years deaing with it, you learn to see the signs of women who truly have been raped or abused, to those who are looking to use it as a way to cover up. Trust me, a REAL rape victim has indicators that CANNOT be faked...

Imo the more rape can be proved to have occured the more likely real rape victims will come forward and nor worry about being called liars or sluts etc.

Thanks for answering my questions.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by riley]

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


so, I was living in a fantasy land when I said that a mom with a sick kid who needed medicine who lives in a shady part of town should be able to safely walk to a store in the night time safely without having a bunch of idiots judge here negatively if she happened to be raped trying to just get medicine for her kid???

ummm.....
ya, okay....
I think you are living in a fantasy world if you think that necessity might not warrant you to go through that shady part of town in that nice richy car in the middle of the night!!!
who knows, one night you might be in a strange part of town, get lost, and find yourself in that part of town! You might have to actually stop somewhere, just to find out where in the world you are....
and then, well....I guess you can share part of the blame when you get mugged!

so, now we shouldn't go jogging (or just taking a walk), in the park alone....
okay what if we don't have a companion to go with us? what if we don't want any company on our little walk? are we to hide in our little houses and be afraid to go outside, lest something horrible happens to us?
there were many, many women in afghanistan who didn't have any males available to provide them escourts, laws that demanded that they have those male escourts, and laws that demanded that they cover themselves up head to toe...
I betcha there were still rapes!!!

I've had three close calls in my life with this...guess what....
I never really drank much, wasn't drunk....
probably 95% of my time was spent in bars was as a kid while my mom bartended.
aint really that pretty....
and well, have always been a rather blah dresser!
but, I do like my solitude in nature!
And, I am certainly ain't gonna hide behind four walls that quite frankly, it's probably just as easy for someone to kick in the door of those four walls than it is for someone to jump me in the park!
It's like whenever something happens to a little kid, that's all you hear, where were the parents, why weren't they watching their kid, even kids 10, 11 years old!
part of growing up requires that kids get out from the watchful eyes of their parents, to decide how to react on their own to the world around them. to make stupid mistakes!! I walked home from kindergarden alone everyday!!
life must be lived!!
it's just easier to blame the women, the mother than it is to address the sickness that is in society and work to provide a safe environment to live that life!!!



[edit on 16-2-2010 by dawnstar]

Is a male then responsible for his rape??? I wonder... Maybe he shouldn't be in the wrong place at the wrong time.. Or wearing provocative clothes.. Or look suggestive and be friendly in a way that can be miss interpreted as interest... If he says no during and then it doesnt stop but turn into an attack? Or at knife point with a whole bunch of attackers?? I wonder how quickly attitudes would change if these attacks were the predominant ones??

Originally posted by Selahobed
Is a male then responsible for his rape??? I wonder... Maybe he shouldn't be in the wrong place at the wrong time.. Or wearing provocative clothes.. Or look suggestive and be friendly in a way that can be miss interpreted as interest... If he says no during and then it doesnt stop but turn into an attack? Or at knife point with a whole bunch of attackers?? I wonder how quickly attitudes would change if these attacks were the predominant ones??

I wonder how frugal your argument would sound to you if you had actually taken the time to read some of the other arguments in this thread:

Before i can truthfully answer your questions, i have a few of my own.

1.) Was he raped by a man, some men, a woman, or some women?
2.) Was he dressed sleazy? In this case, in order to be equal, he would have to be showing off similar amounts of "naughty" area by revealing "Just enough" to capture attention, but hiding "Just enough" to leave some imagination.
3.) When he was raped, doesn't matter by who, was he by himself, or was he in a public area surrounded by people?

reply to post by dawnstar

so, I was living in a fantasy land when I said that a mom with a sick kid who needed medicine who lives in a shady part of town should be able to safely walk to a store in the night time safely without having a bunch of idiots judge here negatively if she happened to be raped trying to just get medicine for her kid???

Wow. In that extremely highly unlikely scenario, no, it was not her fault. But i guess it wouldn't be her fault either if she lived in the middle of a corn field and just as aliens came to abduct her, lighting struck 6 times consecutively, causing the alien craft to crash land into her home, killing her dog.

The moral of the story here, since you refuse to acknowledge it, is that if you ask for it, you get it.

And please, drop the idiot remarks of "WHO ASKS FOR RAPE?!"

NOBODY and you know exactly what i mean.

Its the expression our parents used on us "If you do that, you're asking for trouble!!"

Exactly, we're not ASKING to get our asses spanked, but if we do what we WANT to do, the result is probably going to wind up with an ass beating.

Its a simple fact of our society:

Don't want to get raped? GOOD FOR YOU - now - don't expect the generosity and good will of others to keep you safe.

Be responsible for yourself. If you refuse to look after yourself and your own well being, and go out to clubs dressed like a whore, flirting with strangers, showing off your "goods" to anyone that looks like they drive a beamer...then YOU are responsible for the outcome.

The other person deserves to go to jail. You do not. But you are still responsible for what happened to you.


END OF STORY

reply to post by Snarf


maybe it seems like a highly unlikely scenerio if your parents taught you to drive, bought you your first car, and you were given a silver spoon early in life!
I didn't get my license till my third kid was born. Most of my travels been on foot! There was one time when I walked serveral miles into town every morning to get to work! my husband has often decided to go on the road driving truck when the jobs dry up!
so, no I don't see this as a highly unlikely scenerio.
like I said...I don't drink, never have...
have always dresses pretty blah...
only thing that I have done was take nice long walks, preferably by water.....
and three close calls...
gee....don't believe the clothing, the state of mind, or much else has much to do with it....
if a rapist sees the opportunity, he just might take it....
and it's unrealistic to think that women are gonna always make sure that she has another person with her when she is out!




[edit on 16-2-2010 by dawnstar]

Rape is never the fault of the victim. But i personally know of two cases where a girl accused someone of raping her only to find out it was a lie. I think you will find that is very common these days and very twisted considering how many woman who have actually been raped are scared to come forward. I personally wouldn't say wearing provocative clothes makes you more open to being raped. I would say too much alcohol and not sticking close to friends is. In a perfect world woman shouldn't have to worry about having a bit too much to drink or deciding to walk home alone...but it isn't a perfect world so precautions must be taken.

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by Snarf

 

maybe it seems like a highly unlikely scenerio if your parents taught you to drive, bought you your first car, and you were given a silver spoon early in life!
I didn't get my license till my third kid was born. Most of my travels been on foot! There was one time when I walked serveral miles into town every morning to get to work! my husband has often decided to go on the road driving truck when the jobs dry up!
so, no I don't see this as a highly unlikely scenerio.

Hmm, lets see. I bought my first car. Was on my own since 17, wouldnt know what a silver spoon looked like if it smacked me in the forehead, and have worked my ass to the bone to get where i am.

EVERYONE suffers hardships. Just because you suffered a hardship doesn't mean you know any more or any less about life in general. You might know more what its like to walk to work...but thats about the extent of it.

Are you seriously using that argument to try and justify your ignorance of the OP?

It *IS* an unlikely scenario that anyone living in a "bad part of town" would have to make an emergency walk in the middle of the night down a bad street to go to a gas station to get medicine.

Why?

If your "Child is sick" to the point that it's an emergency...that gas station isn't going to have the life saving medication he or she so desperately needs...only a hospital will. Is your child going to die with out their Robitussin?



So your manufactured situation is very highly unlikely. But since i don't think its IMPOSSIBLE, then i say "yes, that situation, its not her fault"


But your post just goes to prove to everyone here, and i hope to even yourself, that you are a person who blames everyone around you for the problems you endure. You cannot accept responsibility for the life you live, so it must be someone Else's fault.

[edit on 16-2-2010 by Snarf]

reply to post by Solomons

In a perfect world woman shouldn't have to worry about having a bit too much to drink or deciding to walk home alone...but it isn't a perfect world so precautions must be taken.

Thank you for helping bring some rational thought back into this thread.

But how can you say this, then also say "rape is never the fault of the victim?"


It's like saying "you should always wear your helmet" but then saying "well, it wasnt your fualt that you wrecked your motor cycle and suffered brain damage because you didn't wear a helmet"

Skimpy Cloth + Alcohol + Disregard = Bad situation

Any woman willing to submit herself to a situation that contains any combination of the above 3 requisites, is asking for trouble. She doesn't DESERVE it, but she is responsible for her outcome.

I'm really disturbed by what I'm reading in this thread.

Some of the arguments I've seen so far boil down to this:

"If a woman gets raped and she was dressed a certain way, it's her fault (at least partially)."

Who defines what provocative attire might be? For example, in my opinion, mini-skirts that hit the knee are rather provocative.....but most people today would consider that prudish. At the other end of the spectrum, in certain societies showing a little ankle is considered provacative.

It seems to me that some of the arguments also boil down to this:

"Men are at the mercy of their sexual drive. If they get too turned on, they aren't completely responsible."

Bollocks.

If a man rapes a woman (or vice versa), then the RAPIST is 100% responsible. Period. End of story. Don't try to mitigate that responsibility by saying, "She was dressed sexy, so she asked for it." That's blaming the victim.

Now, having said that......

Some of the other arguments boil down to this.

We DO need to be aware that their are certain situations that INCREASE the chances of rape occurring. Anywhere there's alcohol drunk to excess would be a start. And knowing that, if a woman chooses to engage in potentially risky behavior, then she should be AWARE OF and take PRECAUTIONS against falling into the hands of a predator.

I believe the main thrust of these arguments are that if you put yourself into a potentially dangerous situation, then don't be too surprised if the worst occurrs.

There is some truth to that. It's not an excuse for rape, and it doesn't mean blame the victim at all. Just be aware that your actions could expose you to the possibility of an unpleasant encounter.

In life, we all make decisions and we must deal with those consequences. If I choose to go clubbing, get drunk, and then find myself in an unpleasant situation.....I will have to deal with the consequences.

That doesn't mean the man who did it isn't a predator. He is. And he is 100% guilty.

reply to post by Snarf

never said it was a gas station, drug stores are open till 9-10 at night, way past sunset. grocery stores are open 24 hours, and have over the counter meds available all the time. a kid could need medicine and it not be considered an emergency. or maybe she just ran out of fomula....
maybe she just wants a bottle of coke and some chips!!!

why would the women even have to defend her decision to walk to a store to begin with!

Originally posted by dawnstar
reply to post by Snarf

 

why would the women even have to defend her decision to walk to a store to begin with!

She doesn't have to defend it any more than i'd have to defend my decision to walk down a dark alley flashing cash to all the hoodlums standing by.

Its a simple matter of personal preservation.

If you value your safety and well-being, then you will do everything you can to make sure you don't get put in a situation to jeopardize either.

reply to post by smyleegrl

"Men are at the mercy of their sexual drive. If they get too turned on, they aren't completely responsible."

Bollocks.

I agree with this. And never once, that i've seen, has anyone, especially myself, ever tried to excuse the CULPRIT from the equation (remember, females are capable of rape, too, so please, lets not be gender biased here)

I believe RAPE is bad - always. Its never justifiable any more than mugging, murder, or anything else of a likewise nature.

However - to allow ones self to be PUT in that situation makes ones self responsible for the outcome.

I'd no more go party with a bunch of strangers wearing a skimpy outfit, drinking tons of booze, flirting with anything walking

than i'd walk down the dirt streets of Somalia screaming the N-word

reply to post by Snarf

like letting your kid suffer through the night coughing his brains out because a few idiot guys decide it's fun to be jerks when there's a store two blocks away that has the med that can quiet that cough......

ya sure...
like I said, three close calls, wasn't flashy in any of the cases, definately wasn't dress like a whore, ain't really that attractive, wasn't drunk, wasn't hitting the bars, heck no one could have ever recognized by by association through a bar...and all I was doing was living my life!!

the problem is people seem to judge others, without a clue as to who they are, what they do, or anything else.....
it's just 50% or so of the women finding a reason to feel good about themselves, superior to someone else...

with maybe a little political propaganda going on!

reply to post by dawnstar

like I said, three close calls, wasn't flashy in any of the cases, definately wasn't dress like a whore, ain't really that attractive, wasn't drunk, wasn't hitting the bars, heck no one could have ever recognized by by association through a bar...and all I was doing was living my life!

It still escapes me why we're making this about YOU YOU YOU. Yes, in YOUR YOUR YOUR situation, you're not at fault. I've said this many times.

You weren't "LOOKING FOR TROUBLE", you were looking for a gas station.

There IS a difference.


Now - if you were walking down that same street, at the same time of night, with the same intentions wearing this

the, yes, you were asking for trouble, and you are responsible for the outcome.


[edit on 16-2-2010 by Snarf]

why, my experience tells me that it really doesn't matter how you look, what you wear.....

Originally posted by dawnstar
why, my experience tells me that it really doesn't matter how you look, what you wear.....

then your experiences have never watched a TV program or listened to the radio.

Your experiences have never read a magazine, or looked at a billboard, went to a drug store, or shopped in a mall.

You can choose to keep living in a world where nothing is your fault and everyone is to blame, and you live by the rules that SHOULD be in place

or you can accept reality

it's totally up to you

either way - im glad you agree with my assessment of walking down the street in regular clothes v.s. hooker clothes.

Your 1 line rebuttal was Rembrandt to my eyes

[edit on 16-2-2010 by Snarf]

reply to post by Snarf

or..I could just carry a gun and blow the sob's head off!!!

or just do what I do and act so crazy that they get the idea that it's more trouble than it's worth!

but, well, some of yas are seeming to think that we women should just curtail our basic freedoms, like walking to a store...buying food for our families......because well, there's dangerous men in the world....
ya, there are, and ya know what, if they can't find you out there, they can just as easily kick in your door!