All UFO's Are Ours, Aliens Haven't Visited Ever, & Believers Are Possibly Delusional

I am not in anyway convinced that Signals believes his opening statement.

He like most on here are looking for some truth.

He is right in saying that there as far as I know is not one shred of evidence that can be passed around the table and the question asked where did that come from. That is that relates to ET flying a craft in our sky’s.

Yes I know there is a lot of wonderful testimony out there that points to this but nothing that can be pasts around the table.

Now before you start on me I tend to air of the side of believing the testimony in many cases. In my opinion there is just too much good stuff out there.

However there is only one thing I know for sure and that is TPTB are lying. The big question is what are they lying about???

reply to post by Signals

Did you think I was kidding?

I can always arrange something.

No joke, time to come home.

Best Wishes!



[edit on 5-2-2010 by ET_MAN]

reply to post by Signals


Hey signals,

This really is a refreshing thread. I'm glad you made it.

You sure caught a lot of flack, but I agree with you - excepting some of the wording you chose to use, but 'tis true; There is no proof of intelligent aliens anywhere, or that those aliens are flying about our skies in strange crafts. Aliens probably exist somewhere, but there is no conclusive proof of them existing here.


*....and now I've got a target painted on my back too.

[edit on 5-2-2010 by Exuberant1]

reply to post by Signals


Unless you are the President, work for any secret government agency, or you are someone with inside knowledge, then you might "know" either way. If your not any of them, then you're basically just talking through your ass.

I haven't read a proper troll thread in ages!

Now, I know why.......

reply to post by Exuberant1


But surely absence of proof isn't proof of absence?

Ive never seen an alien or UFO, and while I find it hard to believe they are here around us, It doesn't mean they aren't.

reply to post by thesneakiod


I don't disagree with you.

But still, there exists no proof that aliens are flying UFOs in our skies or that Aliens even exist. And absence of available proof is just that - an absence of available proof.

Intelligent aliens probably exist somewhere in the vast expanse of our universe, but we (the public) have no proof that they do exist anywhere. Nor do we have available any conclusive evidence of Aliens piloting UFOs or visiting the earth.


*Here is a Play on Sir Arthur C Clarke's famous quote:

"When viewed by a sufficiently uninformed populace any sufficiently advanced technology could be mistakenly classified as alien technology."
-Exuberant1



[edit on 5-2-2010 by Exuberant1]

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Intelligent aliens probably exist somewhere in the vast expanse of our universe, but we (the public) have no proof that they do exist anywhere. Nor do we have available any conclusive evidence of Aliens piloting UFOs or visiting the earth.

Well, the problem is that we have no evidence of humans piloting UFOs either. Just think about it. Even if you dismiss most UFO sightings as misinterpretations or even hoaxes, you are still left with at lot of credible sightings and reports. And since UFOs has been described as crafts with different colours, shapes and sizes, there must be a lot of these crafts around, stored in secret hangars and bases around the world, if they are man made.

There must also have been more than just a few people involved in designing, building, testing, operating and even storing these mysterious crafts. Somewhere there must be design plans, technical reports, scientific papers. Somewhere there must be scientists, engineers, technicians and pilots involved in this secret world of man made UFOs.

So... Where is the paper trail? Where are the witnesses? Not ONE SINGLE PIECE of paper that could prove that at least some UFOs are man made, has EVER been found or leaked out to the public, not even by mistake. Not ONE SINGLE person has come forward with their story, there has been NO death bed confessions or definitive proof left behind by any insider. And you should think that SOMEONE who was involved in the business of producing, operating (and hiding!) man made UFOs would have come forward by now. If nothing else, to clear their conscience after what must have been a lifetime of lies and deception, before they go to meet their maker.

And can you imagine what kind of money a witness with some papers or photos to prove their story could make? Can you imagine what an exclusive contract with some television station, a publisher house or a news paper would be worth? What are the odds that not one single insider has EVER been tempted by a multi million dollar deal?

The idea that all UFOs are man made makes very little sense to me. Perhaps there have been secret military crafts tested and flown. But the idea that every single UFO sighted through history has been built here on Earth and operated by humans? No way.

In my opinion, of course.

reply to post by ziggystar60


I agree with most of your opinion ziggystar60. We do of course have people like Bob Lazar in UFO folklore that claim to be flying back engineered UFO's out of Groom Lake... but there is so much that doesn't add up with this character and his history. It raises too many red flags to be accepted blindly as fact.

IRM

Originally posted by ziggystar60
But the idea that every single UFO sighted through history has been built here on Earth and operated by humans? No way.

In my opinion, of course.

How far back are you going in history?

Surely you cannot produce any conclusive evidence of alien visitation or aliens piloting UFOs from the historical records. There is no Alien metals to be had nor alien bodies to be tested.

Face it, there is no conclusive proof of alien visitation available to us. There is no proof of life on other worlds either.

Originally posted by Exuberant1


How far back are you going in history?

To be honest I think there is a big problem with going too far back in history when discussing UFO sightings. For instance it seems a great deal of paintings of "UFOs" from earlier centuries was simply a way to illustrate religious themes or gods. (I am no expert on this at all, though, and have not studied this in detail.)

And you are right, we have no conclusive proof of alien visitation. Just like we don't have proof of UFOs being man made crafts. We simply do not know what is going on, we can only speculate.

I like to speculate that PERHAPS some UFOs really are man made, and they are from the future. Perhaps we are seing timetravellers in crafts which has not yet been built.

Originally posted by ziggystar60

Originally posted by Exuberant1


How far back are you going in history?

To be honest I think there is a big problem with going too far back in history when discussing UFO sightings. For instance it seems a great deal of paintings of "UFOs" from earlier centuries was simply a way to illustrate religious themes or gods. (I am no expert on this at all, though, and have not studied this in detail.)

And you are right, we have no conclusive proof of alien visitation. Just like we don't have proof of UFOs being man made crafts. We simply do not know what is going on, we can only speculate.

I like to speculate that PERHAPS some UFOs really are man made, and they are from the future. Perhaps we are seing timetravellers in crafts which has not yet been built.

I may be wrong, but can you travel back in time past the point at which the time machine was invented?

Originally posted by ziggystar60

Just like we don't have proof of UFOs being man made crafts. We simply do not know what is going on, we can only speculate.

It is far more likely that an aircraft which we cannot identify is made and piloted by humans. Not many people can identify every aircraft all of the time, and so they are UFOs to that observer.

Thus far every aircraft that we know of has been built by humans. Not every aircraft that we make can be identified, ergo we have UFOs.

Ziggy, What is the best piece of available evidence which you believe shows that UFOs are piloted by aliens or are not of this earth?

While I don't know what they are, if they are ours or not is another matter entirely but that they are real is without question for me.

As I have personally witnessed ufos twice in my life.

The first time with my brother as a boy we watched for what seemed like an hour as some sort of lighted disk danced above us before ziping away at a speed that was far and away from anything any aircraft was capable of.

The second time as recent as a couple of years ago. Again with 2 other friends one of whom went into denial about it because of the fanatstic nature of the event.

We stood out back and out behind us is a large soy field and unobstucted view of the eastern sky. No light pollution and lots of stars. It's beautiful!

We were conversing when I looked at the sky and could see a litle speck of moving light coming towards us from the north. as it approached, it became larger and brighter. At first I thought it was a sattelite because we see those tracking across the sky every weekend, but this was getting bigger and brighter as it approached. It was a white light and shone like a super bright star.

When it passed us and was moving into the southern sky, it changed to a bright red with a bright red halo changed direction and shot towards the south east and up into the sky and blinked out.

It was awesome, all three of us saw it and one of us was so in a state of disbelief he immediately started denying what he had just seen. Inexplicably!

My other friend and I were more baffled by this friends protestations about the reality of what we had just witnessed than we were of the ...well, whatever it was.

So, yes, they do exist, but as far as what are they? I haven't a clue. Could be robot probes like we send out, could be ships from within our own solar system, could be from outside our system, could be from within our earth or beneath our seas.

I don't know, but I would like to know. In the meantime, it serves my best interest to chop wood and carry water though as opposed to getting all wrapped up in chasing smoke.

If you see one, it's cool. If not, I understand your skepticism. Direct experience is indeed the best teacher.

What a BS post, i know what i`ve seen so go back to sleep son!

Originally posted by Exuberant1


Ziggy, What is the best piece of available evidence which you believe shows that UFOs are piloted by aliens or are not of this earth?

Well, solid EVIDENCE is what we are still lacking...

But there are some well documented UFO cases which makes me think that some intelligent alien life form were involved, This is one of them, and it is an excellent presentation by internos:
The strange story of JAL1628

And this is a case which make me think that PERHAPS human timetravellers were onvolved. Sadly there are no photos, no radar reports to be found in this case, but I still think the witnesses are very credible. It is also one of my own personal favourite cases:
Waving at the aliens - The Papua New Guinea UFO sightings

I had my first visual encounter in May of 2009 as I was driving through New Mexico on I40 headed west. I was at mile marker 62 and happened to look through my windshield toward the north west at approximately 11-am and saw a bright silver craft hovering over a mesa to the north of the highway.
The craft was semi-circular shaped, like half a grapefruit with a teardrop shaped flat bottom to it. The bottom was lighted a bright white and the light of the bottom seemed to phase in and out in intensity.
I took my eyes back to the road for a brief moment, to ensure I was still in my lane and returned my vision back to the spot where the craft had been and it was gone.
I reported the sighting to MUFON a few days later and was contacted by the New mexico chapter chief a few days after that. It seems the next day after my sighting, there was a similar sighting directly over Albuquerque, Same shape and same characteristics, same disappearing act.
All that being said, to address the point that there's no proof of the existence of aliens. I have had these discussions with a very close friend of mine, of many years, who is a structural engineer for the space shuttle engines for many years. John Q. Public does not have the technology to build these sorts of craft, given their remarkable flight capabilities... which leads to clandestine operations by those with the resources capable of of conducting extensive R and D to develop such craft. People in such positions are smart enough to know you don't waste time trying to re-invent the wheel, ergo use what's available to better expedite your task, i.e. back engineering downed craft, (Roswell).
People are to egotistical and arrogant when it comes to their own inventions, if this technology were created by humans, somebody somewhere would be hollering at the top of their lungs for recognition of their achievements, and rightfully so, but since they aren't you can assume there is good reason for not doing so, such as, by taking credit for this they would then be bombarded with questions from the general scientific community on how they made it possible from point a to point b and every step in between, and they can't answer that simply because to do so would require them letting the cat out of the bag. That cat being, it wasn't ours to begin with. Not to mention having to admit that in fact we aren't alone here on this little spinning globe, but do in fact coexist with other species, far more technologically advanced than us.
Trust me people if this technology were ours... we would have used it publicly long ago.
There is a great deal of proof out there, one only need to connect the dots as it were... but that would require thinking on our part and few to many people do that these days. It's called cognitive reasoning... case in point..."the world is flat"... at the time seemed very plausible to most of the general population, but those who exercised their brains understood differently



[edit on 5-2-2010 by twohawks]

Originally posted by stargazerman
What a BS post, i know what i`ve seen so go back to sleep son!

Hey there stargazerman,

Any chance of a few more specifics just to help us out here ?
(it's Friday and it's been a long week for many of us)

When a thread gets to 15 pages you'll find quite a few 'BS posts' (on both sides of the arguments) ... did you have anyone particular in mind ... or just in general ?

Maybe you could elaborate on 'what you know you've seen'.

And do you have a member of your family on site who is up passed his bedtime ?


>>>Moral of this post

Originally posted by thesneakiod
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

But surely absence of proof isn't proof of absence?

Ive never seen an alien or UFO, and while I find it hard to believe they are here around us, It doesn't mean they aren't.

And this is were faith comes in. And yes, absence of proof is proof of absence, for the time being. That's like me saying that Frankenstein is real, because you don't have proof that he isn't. It's a total cop-out, a loop hole in faith, mind you.

Aliens and spacecrafts are just a hypothesis/theory, and will stay that way, until there is physical evidence to say otherwise. Could there be aliens visiting Earth? Sure. Could these UFOs be something man-made and terrestrial? Absolutely!

Originally posted by TravisT

Originally posted by thesneakiod
reply to post by Exuberant1

 

But surely absence of proof isn't proof of absence?

Ive never seen an alien or UFO, and while I find it hard to believe they are here around us, It doesn't mean they aren't.

And this is were faith comes in. And yes, absence of proof is proof of absence, for the time being. That's like me saying that Frankenstein is real, because you don't have proof that he isn't. It's a total cop-out, a loop hole in faith, mind you.

Aliens and spacecrafts are just a hypothesis/theory, and will stay that way, until there is physical evidence to say otherwise. Could there be aliens visiting Earth? Sure. Could these UFOs be something man-made and terrestrial? Absolutely!

Was the earth flat until we chose to sail around the globe...no...did the sun cease to revolve around the earth with the invention of the telescope, I think not ( just to be clear...it was widely believed that the sun revolved the earth, not the other way around) ... Lack of understanding does not prove lack of existence

Signals, I am here, dude and have been for 3 befrigged days trying to keep up with all the replies (all of them) to see if anyone could produce proof that we weren't aware of beyond eyewitness reports and ancient paintings.

I have withheld replying until I gave all a chance to satisfy the question, and must admit, I was impressed only by The X's post on page 7 regarding theorems derived from a crop circle - following discussions by drew h and The X took it WAY over my head but none the less, at least the challenge was met by The X and I applaud him for that, almost as much as I applaud you.

I understood what you were doing from the title alone, and expected some ruffled feathers but geeez - there is one member in particular that expounded his own ignorance to a degree easily recognized by all - and in that way, this thread was very successful in wheat/ chaff separation here on ATS, both in the form of those who posted, what they posted and even those who chose not to contribute at all.

I, too tire of this whore named ET that seems to sleep with everyone but me, no matter how much wining and dining, gifts, countless hours waiting only to be stood up. I understand completely, and have since learned to separate faith and fact very very stringently. For me, it will take ET or Spock or even a super sized colony of Andromeda to slap me across the face for me to say we have been visited. Or at least a recovered craft or artifact that I am able to see personally, verified by trustworthy authorities (ha ha) but none of which is likely to happen even if proof did exist.

And if I choose to see some eye witness as a fraud, I will. If I choose to believe what they saw or even photographed/ videoed, I will. But nothing less than tangible, physical, or even ideological (referring to X's post) evidence will convince me that we have been visited.

There is no shame in this thread, at least none demonstrated by yourself. You picked a fight, and you got it. In 15 pages noone has proven you wrong or right - just testimonies from some lucky souls this harlot shared her bed with -she may smile on us yet -


We'll see.