All UFO's Are Ours, Aliens Haven't Visited Ever, & Believers Are Possibly Delusional

Originally posted by Signals
They have to be ours. Because no one can prove they're alien.

Does that make any sense?

No. "It didn't happen because you can't prove it" would be the basic version of your argument. It is fallacious, sorry to spoil yer day.

Originally posted by Signals
Yep, it's all true.

Not one single shred of "evidence" supports Planet Earth ever having been visited by anything. Not a picture, not a book, not a video. Eyewitness accounts are very unreliable, just ask our justice system.

This phenomenon has been the biggest LIE and HOAX ever perpetrated on mankind.

And done for good reason - to keep us asleep. To keep us focused on the super-cool space gods that will come and save us!

Meanwhile TPTB steal trillions of dollars from us, kill millions of innocent people, suppress invaluable technology from us (used in some of the hoaxes by the way), and plan the next genocide/war.

Sure I want to believe. But I can't, it's just too easy. Not until they land here-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/b5cdbb96da3c.jpg[/atsimg]

And Bigfoot steps out holding Elvis' hand, singing Dixie.

~You have proof you say?~

I'd rather read this-

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/fdc3a3b52c53.jpg[/atsimg]

I finally figured out what started my whole ride, ET & Close Encounters. Those 2 movies filled my young mind with visions of grandeur...I'm off the ride folks.

Ever wonder over & over again the cliche' "Why are UFO pictures and videos so out of focus and fuzzy"?

Because it's all a SHAM to distract us.

Prove me wrong.

" Prove me wrong" ......so whats in it for me, apart from an accident that would involve either me being intoxicated behind the wheel or a heart attack.

I guess your either very well placed or your simply profiling. Nice chess move, but checkmate.

reply to post by Signals


This thread is just a waste of everybody's time including your own OP.

Ok, you are no longer one of the 'delusional phonies', good man, more power to you.

Trying to annoy people must make you feel good, as it's easy to see that a 'they exist-no they don't' argument gets nobody anywhere.....

I dont know why I even bother....

I have seen three "UFO's" in my life time...

i have no agenda.. I have no reason to lie to anyone about this subject.

you really need to do some research, (including outside) since its obvious you're pissed off you have not seen one yet..

there are hundreds of credible people & some very good pictures showing objects behaving abnormal.

realistically, its mathematically improbable given the staggering number of suns & galaxy's out there we would be the only

place with life..

its an arrogant small minded point of view..




BTW



what happened to manners & decorum?

mods delete these flaming troll post's & stop this trend of name calling..

the standards at ATS are slipping fast...

Deny this Ignorance..

You can't blame people that haven't had personal experiences for not believing in such an outrageous idea. This thread is just so cliche and lacks an iota of constructivism.. This doesn't discourage or encourage people; it's just an immediate red alert for attention.

Originally posted by reeferman
I have seen three "UFO's" in my life time...

i have no agenda.. I have no reason to lie to anyone about this subject.

you really need to do some research, (including outside) since its obvious you're pissed off you have not seen one yet..

there are hundreds of credible people & some very good pictures showing objects behaving abnormal.

realistically, its mathematically improbable given the staggering number of suns & galaxy's out there we would be the only

place with life..

its an arrogant small minded point of view..




BTW



what happened to manners & decorum?

mods delete these flaming troll post's & stop this trend of name calling..

the standards at ATS are slipping fast...

Deny this Ignorance..

I completely agree. I have asked for help from the mods as well, as I have been called just about every name in the book...(you just did it again by the way), please quote evidence of me calling anyone any names...Was my title of the thread over the top? Maybe. It sure made everyone take a second look.

Back on topic, I have defended this over and over again. I NEVER postulated that UFO's aren't real...I believe we are seeing them. I NEVER stated there cannot be life in the universe...in fact all science points us towards that conclusion.

What I'm asking for is solid proof that UFO's are aliens from another world...and no one has been able to do that. Somewhere we, as in humans collectively, mixed UFO's and Aliens....with the belief that we cannot possibly be advanced enough to create these ships on our own.

There is also a very good possibility that we have had this ability to do so in the past....but something happened to wipe our knowledge slate clean (what that is I don't know).

Why are we selling ourselves so short? I just don't get it. Why have we trusted those in power enough to give them a pass on responsibility?

We have no idea what technology our government possesses, as witnessed time and time again when they roll out the next secret project out of our testing grounds.

How can these legitimate questions be so offensive?

This is not TROLLING people, it's defending what I believe....

O.K. try this one. Someone throws a rock at you and you don't see it coming. You are knocked unconscious. You wake up in the hospital and are told you were found that way by a good samaritan. By definition you were struck by a U.F.O.

No, you are not asking for proof. You are asking for people to provide only what YOU would consider proof. Big difference. You say off-hand that eyewitness testimony is incredibly unreliable in court. That's ludicrous. It's often the deciding factor in many cases, including murder, robbery, and so on. As you stated yourself, the only thing you'd consider proof is if they walked up and shook your hand.

And that's why this entire thread is a laughable farce.

Originally posted by michial
O.K. try this one. Someone throws a rock at you and you don't see it coming. You are knocked unconscious. You wake up in the hospital and are told you were found that way by a good samaritan. By definition you were struck by a U.F.O.

For this analogy to work for the believers, you must take it one step further.

Tell me there where aliens inside that rock.

Originally posted by fleabit
No, you are not asking for proof. You are asking for people to provide only what YOU would consider proof. Big difference. You say off-hand that eyewitness testimony is incredibly unreliable in court. That's ludicrous. It's often the deciding factor in many cases, including murder, robbery, and so on. As you stated yourself, the only thing you'd consider proof is if they walked up and shook your hand.

And that's why this entire thread is a laughable farce.

Eyewitness identification evidence is the leading cause of wrongful conviction in the United States. Of the more than 200 people exonerated by way of DNA evidence in the US, over 75% were wrongfully convicted on the basis of erroneous eyewitness identification evidence.[1] In England, the Criminal Law Review Committee, writing in 1971, stated that cases of mistaken identification "constitute by far the greatest cause of actual or possible wrong convictions".[2] Yet despite substantial anecdotal and scientific support for the proposition that eyewitness testimony is often unreliable, it is held in high regard by jurors in criminal trials, even when "far outweighed by evidence of innocence."[3] In the words of former US Supreme Court Justice William J. Brennan, there is "nothing more convincing [to a jury] than a live human being who takes the stand, points a finger at the defendant, and says 'That's the one!'"[4]

Wiki Link

At the same time, numerous psychological studies have shown that human beings are not very good at identifying people they saw only once for a relatively short period of time. The studies reveal error rates of as high as fifty percent — a frightening statistic given that many convictions may be based largely or solely on such testimony. These studies show further that the ability to identify a stranger is diminished by stress (and what crime situation is not intensely stressful?), that cross-racial identifications are especially unreliable, and that contrary to what one might think, those witnesses who claim to be "certain" of their identifications are no better at it than everyone else, just more confident.

Find Law Link

Now, take that stressful situation the source mentions. Multiply the stress times 10 (ie. UFO event)....Judgement is skewed beyond belief.

Originally posted by Signals

What I'm asking for is solid proof that UFO's are aliens from another world...and no one has been able to do that. Somewhere we, as in humans collectively, mixed UFO's and Aliens....with the belief that we cannot possibly be advanced enough to create these ships on our own.

But Signals, no one has been able to prove that UFO' originate from Earth either mate. Look I understand the essence of what your saying... There are many things on Earth that people attribute to aliens because they feel mankind was incapable... like the pyramids for instance. I agree with you that humans are capable of so much more than some give credit for.

Are there man made UFO's? Quite possibly! Are there ET craft? Equally possible!

By it's very nature, the UFO topic is an elusive one. If you combined the knowledge of everyone at ATS, we still know very little but sometimes all you need is that crucial piece of the jigsaw puzzle and everything starts coming together. That's why continuing the search is important.

No conclusions can be drawn either way. We still have a long way to go!

That's why for me, it's important to call out the frauds and hoaxers who put bogus jigsaw pieces on the table. Deny ignorance, but more importantly, as my signature says, "Deny Charlatans". Don't let them form your opinion.

We have some incredible people in the UFO's and Aliens forum... like Internos and jkrog for example who can point you in the direction of some very compelling cases.

IRM

reply to post by InfaRedMan


I'm glad that some get where I'm coming from.

Without a doubt I need to do some more research on my own.

On a side note I'm happy to see your better av back!

Originally posted by Mr Mask
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

First off InfaRed...Not a fan of your newer avatar. But I guess I can get over that.

LOL! It's actually an older avatar which someone requested I use again. Oh well... back to evil IRM! If I get myself in trouble with this alter ego, it's all your fault ok!

IRM

Originally posted by Signals

Originally posted by reeferman
I have seen three "UFO's" in my life time...



I completely agree. I have asked for help from the mods as well, as I have been called just about every name in the book...(you just did it again by the way), please quote evidence of me calling anyone any names...Was my title of the thread over the top? Maybe. It sure made everyone take a second look.

I believe you did call people names, I point you to the title of this thread

& Believers Are Delusional Phonies

reply to post by kyle43


Agreed, and if you would read what you just quoted...I admit the title is over the top.

Few can get past that title to the meat of the thread.... (note to self)

I don't doubt for a second you have seen 3 UFO's. I have no reason to. Can you prove they were piloted by aliens? No.

[edit on 4-2-2010 by Signals]

Right.. because a person looks exactly like a UFO. Brilliant logic.

And the eyewitness testimony I am talking about is not seeing a small pinprick of light in the distance, but cases like in Phoenix, where the massive triangle flew directly overhead, and was seen by multiple witnesses. What.. you think they are so stupid, they mistook a plane for this object? Or the sighting in Indiana, where police and civilians from multiple counties saw a huge triangular object. Are you suggesting they all mistook a plane or helicopter for something else? Or the more recent sighting in Texas, where the rancher had the craft above him and the trees, and it was so large, it covered his entire field of vision. What was he really seeing then?

See, unless you can discount sightings like these (and many more), you do NOT know. You are guessing. And guessing isn't knowing.

Originally posted by Signals


Not one single shred of "evidence" supports Planet Earth ever having been visited by anything. Not a picture, not a book, not a video. Eyewitness accounts are very unreliable,

It is just as stupid to deny the existence of UFO's.

What gives you such superior knowledge?

Face it, you are in the same boat as everyone else - unable to prove or disprove.

I appreciate the point of view expressed in the opening of this thread. Opinions are fascinating, with or without the harmony of agreement.

As a man of science and a skeptic of nearly all conspiracy theories, I can't agree (at least fully) with the premise that aliens have never been here. Nor can I agree with a belief that the talk of aliens is part of a conspiracy to keep us "asleep".

I would be tempted to agree that aliens have never visited Earth, if it wasn't for something I saw around 1980, might have been '81. Even back then I knew a lot about aviation and followed space technologies. What I saw gliding through the night sky was not any kind of craft I could recognize.

Something is up there in the sky, that much I'm sure of. Is what I saw an alien craft? I don't know. But I'd like to find out.

If we assume that UFOs are an entirely human creation, there are a few things that should be considered:

1) The technology to create wingless, tailless, external engineless disc-shaped vehicles that can fly faster than the fastest publicly acknowledged aircraft in existence today, that can hover, and that can stop in mid-flight without decelleration and accellerate to high speeds instantaneously had apparently been perfected no later than 1947.

2) Nobody involved in the development, implementation or manufacture of this technology has come forward publicly with any explanation in more than 60 years.

3) The technology has never been used openly in any wars of the 20th or 21st Centuries, despite apparently being available for all of them and despite the obvious strategic advantage that it represents.

4) Whoever possesses this secret technology (it would most likely be the U.S. military or some as yet unknown private group, although I'm open to other suggestions) brandishes this technology openly to civilians, although careful measures are typically taken to ensure that other top secret experimental aircraft of a much less exotic nature are kept out of public view.

5) Massive amounts of time, energy and money have been spent researching, developing, testing and utilizing experimental aircraft that, although they were considered to be highly advanced at the time of their manufacture, had already been embarrassingly obsolete for decades.

6) In the year 2010, the most advanced publicly acknowledged aircraft in the world do not even begin to come close to being able to approximate what UFOs were able to do nearly seven decades ago.

reply to post by Orkojoker


Good rational argument Orkojoker. I have found many of the same issues puzzling over the years and most of the answers I have received from people defending the military/black Ops UFO hypothesis have been somewhat lacking in logic and/or believability.

I recently read "Man Made UFO's - World War II's Secret Legacy" by Renato Vesco & David Hatcher Childress about the supposed Nazi saucers and although it was interesting, they present nothing more than some second hand stories, rumors, highly questionable photos of Haunebu & Vril craft and some cool technical diagrams.

I believe it's possible that the Nazi's had great ideas about advanced propulsion but I don't see the undeniable proof that they achieved a working model, nor do I see any underlying science that would suggest it's within the realms of human ingenuity.

But hey.. who knows... I could be wrong.

IRM

[edit on 5/2/10 by InfaRedMan]