The Modern UFO Myth and Imminent Disclosure

Originally posted by Dean Goldberry
reply to post by lagenese

 

I could be wrong, and hope I am, but I disagree that Disclosure (which really is only the precursor to the much bigger and more important Contact anyway) will be on ET terms, or primarily. I don't see any formal, huge revelation or whatever action occuring at least prior to a pre-catastrophe ("end of the world") scenario, if applicable. As long as there aren't enough people against the primary, most essential secrecy-based stuff of which (the real) government is made (i.e. the National "Security" State), they will remain hidden, as much as I'd like to believe otherwise. I'm pretty convinced there's a real "Prime Directive" that is the guiding policy.

I get my answers within, for i have my own source. I am connected on a psychic level with my source, meaning the light i'm issued from. I do not need any outside information, i do not need to rely on influence or manipulation, for i do not accept any of these forms.

When humans will be able to elevate their vibrational status and consciousness levels, this disclosure issue will become irrelevant. Today's governments around the globe don't even know how to handle the ET presence and "the violation of their air space". The need for disclosure for many is caused by insecurity within the mind, which in turn causes a form of fear. This fear is transferred to the emotional body, therefore, it's stays in a subjective form. Also, humans can't even get along on this planet, imagine adding ET's to the equation. This is an experimental planet, and humans have an experimental consciousness, that prevents them to get the answers they need from within.

When enough humans will have high levels of consciousness, full contact will happen. Even if the governments of this world were to in fact disclose all the facts, ET's would not even bother, for humanity is not ready for them.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by lagenese]

I think the main question about UFO's, from a skeptical point, is what they actually are.

Are they extra-terrestrial beings? Or are they super advanced earth-made technology owned and made 100% by the government?

I also think it's important to note that the "government" that has all the secrets about UFO's may not be the same "government" that is sitting in washington.

If the elected government had direct access to this stuff, disclosure would have happened long ago.

I think that the military-industrial complex is in charge of the UFO area, and I highly doubt they are ever going to disclose and admit that they have been purposely hiding the truth and misleading the public for 60 years.

Originally posted by Monts
I think the main question about UFO's, from a skeptical point, is what they actually are.

Are they extra-terrestrial beings? Or are they super advanced earth-made technology owned and made 100% by the government?

Or are they the third option - an alternative reality sitting alongside our own, glimpses of which we catch occassionally, who's appearance, motives and apparent messages they leave are as varied and as complex as the people witnessing them.

ET, but not in the conventional sense portrayed by many.

reply to post by converge
Very intellegent opening post.
I can only relate one incidence that occurred when I lived on a farm 45 years ago.

During the summer my brother in law, my niece and I would sometimes, finish off the evenings by stargazing. We lived on top of a high hill, out in the middle of nowhere. Back then you could see so many stars.

As a background to this story, my brother in law at the time was employed by McDonald Douglas Air Craft Corp. He worked there for many years as a "expeditor". I am sure he wasn't "high up" as my BIL had a minimum education, just another line supervisor, nobody important, nobody in the know, but he did know his aircrafts. He was obsessed with them.

One night while watching the stars, we saw something, "it" was about the size of a period, maybe a tiny bit bigger, it was really high up and maneuvered across the sky from one end to the other, back again and then up and down.

This thing whatever it was, went from one end of our vision, literally from one end of the night sky to the other within a split second. My BIL sat up and said, "what the hell!". We watched this "thing" maneuver all over the place, almost like it was showing off and or just having fun.

We watched this craft for a few minutes and then it poof it quickly disappeared.

I suggested it was probably a satellite (I was around 12 years old).

My BIL (Brother In Law) said, "We don't have anything that fast and it appears to be intelligent driven". I said "Then it's probably from Russia", BIL said "Nobody has anything that fast, nobody”.

Now, my BIL was a man that lived by the motto, "Believe none of what you hear and half of what you see". He was a very sane, factual, hard nose, don't believe in ghost, paranormal etc type of man. He was also, not one to believe in conspiracies or anything he could not see, touch, taste or smell with his own senses. Before that night, he laughed at the thought of "little green men from mars".

Right after the thing disappeared, he gathered the blanket and us up very quickly and ushered us into the house and quickly began turning off all the lights in our house. This action was very unlike him.

I've never before or afterwards ever seen this man look scared, but that night he looked concerned. This was the first and only time I ever saw him go into “survival mode". Once you see a full grown man, go into this mode, you get a feeling, almost like a primeval sense of fear.

My sister, his wife, asked him what is going on why are you acting crazy, turning off all the lights? My BIL said, "Somethings out there, up there" My sister replied "you've lost your mind, why turn the lights off, now come on this is insane, next thing you know you’ll be seeing little green men"

BIL said, "We're sitting on top of a hill in the middle of nowhere and they could come back, we're an open target with the lights on and this thing is not from here”.

Us kids were told to go to bed quickly and quietly and not to turn on any of the lights or unlock any of the doors or windows.

My sister went into their bedroom and turned on the TV shaking her head and rolling her eyes.

My BIL followed her in there and pulled the drapes shut, making sure the drapes were covering the entire bedroom window.

I've never been abducted, never seen little gray men or a "UFO" up close (and don't want to) but, after that one night, I have a feeling we are not alone.

Whatever it was, it was as super fast, beyond fast, it could turn on a dime and came and went so quickly, within the blink of an eye. The way it maneuvered was beyond amazing.

Maybe it was some type of experimental American secret aircraft?

However, I do have some observations:

1) Too many UFO investigators have had unfortunate "suicides/accidents".
2) Too many biochemists have also had unfortunate "suicides/accidents".
3) Anyone that has gotten a little too close to this one subject has been quieted and so much of their tangible information has "disappeared".

Something is up - Where there is smoke, there is fire.

How would our world change with disclosure.

Take energy and medicine alone. The average person pays for energy and health, big time. The energy and medical companies own the government. They are some of the strongest lobbyist in DC.

If energy and medical care alone were free as they should be TPTB would no longer have the strangle hold upon the general population that they now do.

People that have power and a good unlimited source of money, do not give these two things up easily. They do not play by sane moral rules, they will stop at nothing to remain in power.

I've seen small fish in small ponds do horrible things just to maintain their small power status. I can only imagine what the big fish in the big ponds would do.

How is this tied in with "the alien connection"?

Any civilization that can travel from another star system or dimension has gotten around the use of fossil fuel, time and probably has medical advances we have only to dream of yet.

Why haven't "they" landed outright and proclaimed themselves to the world?

We are still a very primitive vicious species. We tend to shoot first and ask questions later. We are a still at this point a really aggressive, hostile and primitive species.

Look at the way we still treat each other and our planet, "they' probably have little or no respect for us, maybe even fear what ends we would go to defend our planet, even to the point of making our planet uninhabitable for tens of thousands of year.

Maybe warfare and conquest of advanced species is probably different than our current human methods.

Instead of a in your face, destroy everything, "overt" warfare, "They" are quietly assimilating us into their gene pool, via "covert' warfare. This method might take longer but would in the long run be a way more clean, efficient and effective method, leaving the planet intact. (The Threat by David Jacobs).

If they have invaded or mucked (yet again) with our gene pool, this alone could result in a complete assimilation of our species unbeknownst to us.

Maybe our world government's hands are tied, I often wonder if "they' haven't issued an ultimatum to some of the world leaders along the line of "expose us openly before we say so and your species is toast", “Play along with us and you will still maintain some control”.

If and this again is only speculation, "they" have the technology to travel from a distant star system, dimension or time, "they" probably have the capability of being able to destroy our entire planet with one beam and yet they haven’t. We must have something then that they need?

If they have other senses or more finely tuned senses, say telepathy than we could be controlled without our even knowing it. (Memory blocks etc).

We're looking at this whole scenario though the eyes of primitive humans. Their methods of war and conquering another planet maybe very different than what we can understand at this time.

Possibly some are here to "assist" us. But then again as I have said in other posts, usually my experience has been, if someone means you well they are usually straight up and honest with you from the beginning.

If someone means to screw you over they are sneaky, secretive and subversive.

If and when disclosure takes place, it will be on their terms not ours.

In the entire history of humanity, when a more technologically advance group of people encountered another less advanced civilization - the less advanced group are conquered and assimilated. This then probably holds true out there in the galaxy as well as here.

I have no inside information. What I bring to the table is my one "sighting" and some nonprofessional research. I'm not a "qualified" expert, only another speculator.

However, I suspect we are not alone, and have never have been. It is also my contention that too many individuals have met untimely deaths under mysterious circumstances surrounding this issue.

www.ufoevidence.org...

We as a species have just recently emerged into the modern age. Some of us at this very moment, still live in grass huts, wear turbans, go to the bathroom outside like animals and hold on to superstitions and beliefs that were prevalent over four millenniums ago.

Look at how we treat the other species on this planet. Look at our daily news. Humanity has a long hard road to becoming even remotely civilized.

Disclosure might mean, people would put aside their petty differences such as race and religion and start to see the big picture, and that in and of itself might unite us and maybe “they” wouldn’t want that.

United we stand, divided we fall is one of the most true axioms.

I believe we are not alone.

As to “their purpose” I’m on the fence. Possibly if there are more than one species visiting us, some are benevolent and some are not benevolent.

I would assume that if our history portrays how things work, the explorers are exploring for resources, land, power and conquest.

Most people assume that if a species has the capability to travel in space or inter dimensionally, they are more advance spiritually as well as technologically. That may not be the case.

Some civilizations probably advance certain aspects at different rates. Some are highly spiritual (and those are probably not as aggressive explorers) and some have turned away from their spiritual advancement to embrace “technology”.

www.crystalinks.com...

If just 1% of the abduction stories are true, we are in deep doo doo.

Personally I have a gut feeling “they” do not have our best interest at heart.

While this is all “speculation” we are still dancing.

If and when disclosure ever takes place the time of dancing around is officially over and it will be time to lay the cards down on the table.

Then whomever is holding the winning hand calls the shots.


[edit on 31-1-2010 by ofhumandescent]

O.K. J. Allen Hynek stated in regards to UFOs that "violation of logic is not proof." So what you are saying is correct in the sense that while UFOs violate logic that still does not prove what they are. But in the other sense violation of logic precedes the need for proof. We can logically infer something without proving it -- we can violate logic and we do not need to prove anything.

This is the basis for nonwestern philosophy -- logical inference of pure consciousness. Western science is based on proof by contradiction so that a negative is proven through mutually exclusive opposites. In other words a person hypothesizes a theory, then proves the theory is wrong, therefore the opposite is true. This proof by contradiction only works under a rigorously controlled mathematical and technological construct -- the first example being the Pythagorean Theorem to prove irrational magnitude as an infinite number. Archimedes then connected distance of math with weight of physics through geometric ratios as philosophy. Archytas and Plato and Eudoxus were the original formulators of this "Greek Miracle" and the latest research on Archimedes Codex proves that already there was the modern understanding of calculus, and irrational magnitude by the ancient Greeks.

So Western science is based on proof with a certain type of logic tied to number -- that's why Bertrand Russell's "negative set" paradox is not allowed in Western mathematics. Russell stated that the square root of two is a "convenient fiction." Logically the square root of two is fiction -- it violates logic -- yet it's the basis, the foundation, for proof in Western science.

I actually documented in my own research that "reptilians" do exist -- they have been proven -- in anthropology. I've given the citations online -- Paul Stoller is one, another was from Senegal -- In the Eyes of Witchcraft is the book title, another is the academic book "Iron, Gender and Power" about alchemy in Africa. So shape-shifting is real in the sense that a human spirit can travel into an animal and then then reptile can attack another human -- or on an even more powerful level a human can create another physical body as a reptile. In terms of UFOs, Nick Redfern talks about this, as does Christopher O'Brien, using the concept of the Tibetan tulpas.

In order to properly understand UFOs there does have to be a deep analysis of logic -- of the violation of western logic -- which thereby precedes the need for Western proof. Still this does not exclude secret military technology which does have effects on spacetime itself -- or some sort of ether as consciousness. In other words there could very well be a realm of occult technology and in fact science can be considered a religion from Freemasonry. Professor David F. Noble wrote about this secret society control of science when he was at M.I.T. and he was fired because of this expose -- now he teaches in Canada. Nick Redfern's next book will be about a secret society in the military who believes in occult technology behind UFOs -- that there is a channeling of evil energy going on. My own research is based on this expose -- nonduality.com... is a summary.

What is key to understanding this nonwestern logic is similar to the recent '___' claims about alien abductions -- made by Persinger, another "mind control" scientist thought by some to have secret society connections. I corresponded with Persinger about CIA mind control scientist Dr. Andrija Puharich. Anyway the '___' experience, which I have done, can also be recreated using electromagnetic pulses -- and this trance is similar to sleep paralysis. Stan Gooch has argued that it is a direct communication with the reptilian brain -- the cerebellum -- and mirror neurons can be combined with the newly discovered "Ghandi neurons." The phantom limb phenomenon (the Ghandi nuerons) means that our sense of self dissolves and our neurons directly communicate with the matter-energy around us.

So I've studied with an alchemist master who works with the Mayo Clinic for his healing -- he spent 49 days in a cave not needing food, water or sleep -- he was in the Pyramid Power position -- the full lotus -- his name is Chunyi Lin. I also went 8 days on half a glass of water so I know some of the shape shifting skills -- how to create strong electromagnetic fields that are stored in the body and then create holographic laser energy called biophotons by science.

But I've also had a very close encounter with a big black triangle, no fuselage -- I saw the craft up close, and it was preceded by big balls of plasma, each a different color, which were on each corner of the craft. There was a mass sighting of this same craft in my area back in 1978 along with cattle mutilation and even the abduction of a lady into the craft. Does that mean it is extraterrestrial? Nick Redfern documented the triangle UFO on a U.S. military base in the U.K. in the late 1940s.

So again I do think that the military has secret technology from the Nazis and from Tesla before that, along with Schauberger and a few others -- but at the same time it does not mean that science is not an occult religion relying on mass sacrifice to maintain its power. Our whole culture is based on science as rationality but consider the ecological crisis -- science breaks down in ascribing cause to either human industry or to cosmic origins. In fact the science for ecology is called "quantum chaos" and it's also the secret for occult technology as well -- in "quantum chaos" the machines and math are in control without human rationality!

90% of human history is the Bushmen culture of Africa -- the dominant human culture from 100,000 BCE to 10,000 BCE -- and 90% of the Bushmen males had to learn alchemical trance dance healing which included shape shifting. Also the Bushmen were peaceful with no warfare. So there is a radically different experience of human reality -- a neurologically different experience based on the cerebellum -- the reptilian brain -- and the third eye of the pineal gland which makes '___'. Some humans can flex their pineal gland at will -- and therefore are completely different than the modern left-brain dominant humans. I, am one of these humans who can now flex my pineal gland at will and thereby activate my reptilian brain.

reply to post by hermantinkly

Bravo Converge on a well written and thought out post. One of the best that I have read in a long time on ATS. Your Lucy/football analogy made me smile because it is so true.

I would love to see the subject of ufo's taken more seriously but its very clear when you look at some of the responces in this thread that there are those amongst us who would never accept whatever the reality of UFOs actually is if it does not fit into their worldview.

Great post OP, and I think that is the point at which most people need guidance when approaching the subject, it is easy to quickly get overwhelmed with ridiculous stuff.

However, it is a serious subject that needs critical analysis.

I will state that, for me, disclosure is something that must happen(in whatever form, public or govt) in the next ten years or so - simply because humanity cannot afford for it not to happen.

Now, harnessing magnetic fields for the purpose of continuous rotation(until the magnets run out of power) is the real clincher. This tech. will push the gov'ts/corps of the world to play nicey nice.

Also, the main proponents of disclosure put a spin on it: It is not 'Aliens' from another world, it is OURSELVES from the future. Think about it... if we do happen to achieve time travel, it would be in the near future(unless a major event puts it off for a longer time), like in the next 100-150 years.

So if we were time traveling, then the era of nuclear weapons and LHC(creating a universe, Dan Brown, etc) is surely an event to 'culture' by our time traveling selves, to make sure we ourselves don't destroy the future timeline in which we attain peace and solve problems.

It is a very compelling story, to say the least. I am very compelled to research this hypothesis further, because it give a direction to research and keep an eye out for certain things.

Another thing that I have a hard time coping with, is that we are also, as a species, approaching a new paradigm in physics. This physics is very trippy, and ever since I saw the word 'zeitgeist' etched into the bathroom stall wall, my life has been dramatically different.

I get 'synchronicities' all the time, and I can't tell if its because I have started to actually affect my reality with my mind, or if I am just more aware of my 'thoughts', which can affect the 'physical' reality according to one interpretation of quantum physics... and this interpretation should be where someone should start if they want to debunk the new age.

I can't see us becoming more 'rational' in the coming years regarding certain topics like disclosure, when we haven't even gotten confirmation/consensus by physicists on the most basic issue of the nature of our reality.

Which is why I think something significant will happen soon, be it disclosure or whatever.

I suggest anyone that thinks I am crazy(its up in the air really) read the book Rant, by Chuck Palahnuik(fight club).

I was watching the BBC's "I Believe in UFOs: Danny Dyer" this morning on iPlayer, which turned out to be quite interesting. He delves in to crop circles, visits sceptics and believers, and for most of the program, he doesn't really come to a conclusion. He visits Stan Romanek (@ 21:00's in), which was quite interesting, but it's not until the last 10 minutes that, for him, his belief is confirmed.

Have a watch, even if just for the last 10 minutes, and see if you can figure out what him and the group he is with, witnesses, which according to the group, happens all the time....

I Believe in UFOs: Danny Dyer

we DON'T NEED DISCLOSURE

what we do need is to know details about the aliens for example I hear reptilians are around 7 foot high, super human comparing strength, and have two hearts one on each side both of which must be impaled to put an end to such a creatures attack on human beings. THIS is the kind of * we need to know, not that aliens have been coming here since roswell, that everythings fine and only once or twice have they directly screwed with fighter pilots and/or killed them, and disabled a few nuclear missiles.

you see why we don't need disclosure yet? we know more than they do. and if we're wrong, disclosure would set us straight.

I believe if they disclosed the TRUTH there would be massive rioting. I would be one of few to sit and drink a beer at this point and say good on you for finally coming out with it, though it seams a bit f* late now.

Not just the best post ever, THE MOST NEEDED POST EVER. Ive been waiting for someone levelheaded to write this exact post. Definately written better than I could have.

This posts inspires the thought that maybe the far left and the far right could come up with a "10 things we can all agree on". Instead of trying to tear eachother down with no facts from EITHER side.

I am sure that somewhere in the middle is the truth.

I would love to see the community, skeptic and believer, come up with a 10 point list of what we can all agree to. A ten commandments of skeptic belivers if you will. Maybe for another post....

Great post.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex
Everyone interested in this field should learn it's history. Not simply events and dates, but where and with who did certain claim originate. This post is a great-jumping off point for that, Converge. But could you provide links to websites and books so anyone interested can better study this history?

Thank you for your response!

I already mentioned Greg Bishop's book, Project Beta, which goes in-depth into the whole Bennewitz affair, Doty and disinformation. It's a fairly recent book and, as far as I know, it's not freely available for download so if people are interested they should pick up the book. It's a great read.

Some people disagree with Bishop's conclusions, I don't agree with everything he says myself, but don't let be stop you from reading it for what it is—a profound look into a sanctioned disinformation campaign that essentially destroyed a man who stumbled upon communication signals and probably secret projects at Kirtland AFB but, ultimately, influenced and shaped many people's perceptions of the whole UFO phenomenon decades later.

A freely available resource is a Linda Moulton Howe's appearance on Binnall of America where she talks about how she came in contact with Richard Doty, what she was told and shown, and her opinion of it. Linda Howe, someone for which lately I don't have much respect for, still believes everything or almost everything Doty told her is true.

Speaking of Bill Moore, he has, in fairly recent times, appeared on Greg Bishop's Radio Misterioso show and talked about many of these things, Bennewitz, Doty and his involvement: October 12 2003 (Part 1, Part 2), August 8 2004 (Part 1, Part 2), Unknown date 2005 (Part 1 of 1)

I believe Bill Moore's paper he presented in the infamous Las Vegas 1989 MUFON Symposium was published in the MUFON Journal #259 of November 1989 and is available here.

There's a lengthy compilation of articles regarding Bennewitz, Doty and Moore here.

Thanks again for your words

I want to thank everyone for keeping the discussion civil and polite. I'm extremely satisfied by that and the overall reaction to my post as I was even consider not publishing it at all.

Some members have raised the point that I would change my perspective or approach if I had "seen a UFO." I have and I've talked, briefly, about my sightings before. Not that it should matter, because, as I've pointed out, just by having seen a UFO your approach shouldn't change, because it's still a UFO, right? The U still stands for unidentified.

Here's a quote from a previous thread of mine

Each case should be judge by its own merits. I don't automatically accept a particular sighting or case just because the descriptions are similar to something I might have seen or experienced.

I have witnessed a few anomalous aerial objects or phenomena and a couple have left me truly baffled. Thankfully I was in presence of friends and family members who witnessed the same thing as I did, otherwise I would probably still be questioning my own sanity.

Even though I have seen things that defy general consensus and in some cases our current understanding of physics I won't stop approaching it from a skeptical point of view; firstly because I have no way of knowing the nature of what I saw simply by having seen it, and secondly because there's no other way that we'll efficiently cut through all the nonsense that's out there with hopes of eventually making sense of the real phenomena.

Converge : Bravo ! you just put " les choses à plat " as we say in French !
That is to say you're quite right . It's time I read so reasonable thread on
ATS. Thanks !

Originally posted by bananasam
I agree with almost everything except the lack of persuasion by scientific fact. There is plenty science out there that documents landing cases, etc. but the problem is there is nothing to compare it to.

I think there is persuasive evidence of landing cases, and I've mentioned landing cases in my post, but what I've pointed out is that they originate from unknown causes, based on the information we have. I never said there isn't evidence, I only say there isn't evidence to point to a conclusive answer. We are free to deduce and reach our own conclusions, but I don't think anyone can honestly claim to know the answer.

However, perhaps all the UFOs we see are not related.

I agree, and most likely they aren't. I think only a very small percentage of UFO sightings don't appear to have prosaic explanations. Let's not forget that someone's UFO is someone else's B2. And I'm not claiming that the ones that don't appear to have mundane causes behind them have to be alien, or ‘interdimensionals’ or whatever hypothesis people adhere to.

All I'm saying is—I think there is evidence of something unknown, based on the available data and knowledge. Strictly from a scientific perspective, I don't understand how that doesn't cause people to pause and think we should look into it.

Excellent..

Ok, The op's thread can also be applied to GOD. Can't it?

There's no proof that God exists and yet, so many people are so convinced that there is a GOD. There's no proof at all that a GOD exists.
Why then, Do millions of people believe that a god exists? I'd say the same reason so many people believe that Aliens exist..

Everyone is looking for something that helps them cope through this mess we call Life. Believeing that there is a better place to go after death is probably why people believe a God does exist. It's also a much simpler way of saying Why we are here..

I, Myself, think that God and UFO's are very much related in that people are looking for another explanation to explain how we got here..

Another thing I would really like to know is, Do people who believe in God also believe that UFO's and Aliens Exist?

Originally posted by converge
Let's focus on the facts—the objective, undeniable, hard facts. All the entertaining and fascinating stories, are just that—stories, and unverified at that. If people are ever going to really listen—being intellectually interested in the topic and not just entertained by it—and be convinced UFOs should be officially, scientifically and openly investigated is because they were persuaded by the hard facts and data.

While we seem to largely share the same viewpoint I've come to the conclusion that no amount of professionalism, good research, and integrity will change the face of the UFO problem. There's a wonderful article on the BBC titled, "Why do people often vote against their own interests?" It highlights a major challenge facing researchers in almost every field of study,

As the saying goes ... when you are explaining, you are losing.

It's not that people aren't interested in separating objective facts from anecdote and/or conjecture, but rather that learning the science behind a given phenomena is intimidating.

It's this toxic mixture of "I want to have an opinion even if I don't know anything yet" with "I don't want to be uninformed and told how it is" that motivates a person to gain a superficial understanding of an idea which they then use to promote their initial reaction to the concept.

More often than not this quickly manifests as an embedded position that the person incorporates into their character. As time goes on this position crystallizes making it harder and harder to have an honest conversation because the interbreeding of the idea with the persons identity makes it difficult to address one without stepping on the other.

Sadly it's a very human characteristic to want to be right at any cost even if it means fudging the truth. This is especially true when we feel a personal investment in a concept. Couple that with people being social animals who crave acceptance and we get a conservative environment that makes it hard to look past ones nose.

If we could replace these human foibles instead with a desire to learn the truth even if it means accepting that we were initially wrong and not pandering to one another but rather correcting each others mistakes then we might start making headway.

Humans aren't perfect self-improving Gödel machines. The ideal scientist doesn't exist because politics and bias factor in to just about everything. For there to be forward movement requires ...

1. Bridging the educational gap and informing people while not coming across as pretentious.
2. Keeping the subject interesting without compromising integrity or intellectual honesty.
3. Refuting the culture of dismissal by only holding up well investigated cases with physical evidence and forcing those who dismiss this material to admit that they haven't bothered to review it.
   
   And,
   
4. the hardest part is going to be realizing that anecdotal evidence IS an important part of this field. Those who come forward with relatively incredible stories, hard as it is it to believe, may in fact be telling the truth. To make a mockery of them demanding, "Where's the evidence?!" Is to don the same dismissive attitude that got us here in the first place. It's the responsibility of those who are interested in this subject to triage these claims in a consistent and reliable manner that allows for an impartial and rational assessment.

Bottom-line though the end objective needs to be an automated tool that gives all people the basic ability to record, detect, analyze, identify, and report anomalous transient observations in real-time because as Professor Richard Wiseman noted in Britain's Closest Encounters, Alderney Lights,

The question [of Paranormal subjects] is one of accuracy not of honesty.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by Xtraeme]

reply to post by converge


Good thread,and nice job writing it-Nothing we havent seen before though,you are a natural human sceptic and you are a good definition of it,your kind will always exist and there is nothing we can do about it,its a part of the human brain actually.

Ufo\Aliens do exist. Its a proven fact, both trough history of Tellus and own governement archives through various countries around the world.

Governments or people in charge always try to hold severe\dangerous or info hard to understand away from sceptical people and normal humans.We belive that info in the wrong hands can be a massive risk\danger,and anarki is also an easy way"out." A psychological study shows that people wich are natural sceptic gets a different spesific part of the brain 2 trigger when handling severe\dangerous ect info. They actually become a danger holding this info.

Originally posted by converge
All I'm saying is—I think there is evidence of something unknown, based on the available data and knowledge. Strictly from a scientific perspective, I don't understand how that doesn't cause people to pause and think we should look into it.

It's called indoctrination. Humans have been operating like robots, manipulating data according to a set of instructions that comprise an operating system, which is downloaded into their minds through mediums such as science and religion. What happens when you try to run a DOS application under Linux? You'll see strange symbols and characters scrolling down the monitor as the operating system tries to compute the data the only way it knows. Similarly, humans like to apply their limited levels of intellectual knowledge to things that are completely incomprehensible to them, kind of like an ant trying to understand college-level calculus.

Thanks for the great read, converge.

I could not have put it better myself.

I find it funny that there's currently two irrational heavily generalising threads against skeptics running at the moment, perhaps spawned in spite of this thread?

It's almost like there was an imbalance in the force for a while and the empire is trying to strike back

[edit on 31/1/10 by Chadwickus]

Originally posted by game over man
I have to ask you OP, factual evidence of UFO encounters? Do you have some? You mentioned UFOs appear and disappear.

There's plenty of factual evidence of that. You mentioned the Stephenville case. MUFON published a report on the Stephenville case with analysis of the radar returns. It confirms that there was an object where witnesses said they saw something strange. It was, apparently, an object, it was flying and it was unknown. That's factual evidence, in my book, of “UFO encounters” as you called them.

Have Presidents ever spoke on the subject of ET's? Anything unusual or noticeable in the tone of their voice, or the look in their eyes?

President Carter has talked on numerous occasions about his UFO sighting. Personally, I don't think much of his sighting. If I remember correctly it was the typical light in the sky scenario. I'm not saying that it didn't happen, I don't think much of those sort of ‘cases’—if we even can called them that—because there's not much you can do with them.

It is claimed that President Clinton tried to uncover what the Government knew about UFOs. He did, not long ago, talk about that alleged effort in some conference in Hong Kong. Here's a thread with the video of him talking about his effort. I find some of his mannerisms and the way he's telling the story peculiar, maybe he's just embarrassed, I don't know. It certainly doesn't prove anything, other than he apparently tried to find out what the Government knew. He seems to dismiss the whole effort and his interest as foolish, though. Or at least that's what he presented to people.

Since you believe there is a "cover up" designed and implemented by the US Government, why would they fantasize the whole scenario? The cover up cover up theory? To create a cult following?

Yes, I think the Government is covering up something. karl 12 pointed out in his post the Condon report. Based on the analysis of the report, what we now know and what was going behind the scenes, I believe there's strong evidence to think they definitely wanted to cover up something. That something, however, might've been simply their interest in UFOs—that they were publicly denying at the time, and since—or their ignorance about the phenomenon. It doesn't necessarily have to be, for example, a cover up of recovered alien craft and bodies in Roswell.

I'm not sure if the Government “fantasized the whole scenario,” what I know is that in that particular case, an Air Force Office of Special Investigations agent seems to have done that. Was he ordered to create that specific narrative? Was it up to him to create and fabricate whatever he thought was necessary to get Paul Bennewitz's attention away from Kirtland AFB? We'll probably never know.

Is the Government actively spreading disinformation and creating a UFO myth? I don't know. We do have, however, a documented case where, sanctioned by the Air Force, an agent effectively did that.