The Modern UFO Myth and Imminent Disclosure

Originally posted by Orkojoker
Stanton Friedman has quoted Carl Sagan as saying about UFOs (and I'm paraphrasing here) that there are some interesting cases and some reliable cases, but there are no cases that are both interesting and reliable.

Orkojoker, heres Stan the man discussing his classmate Carl Sagan - he also talks about how science can address the UFO subject.







As for Mr Sagan's thoughts on ET visiting earth -he did write this interesting article in 1962:

Prof Says Beings From Outer Space Have Visited Earth
Associated Press, November 26, 1962


...As expressed in numbers, Sagan said, the formula means that at least 1 million of the 100 billion stars in our Milky Way galaxy have planets which have developed civilizations capable of travel between the stars.

"Let's say that each of these civilizations sends out one interstellar expedition per year," he said.

"That means that every star, such as our sun, would be visited at least once every million years. In some systems where these beings found life, they would make more frequent visits. There's a strong probability, then, that they have visited earth every few thousand years.

"It is not out of the question that artifacts of these visits still exist or even that some kind of base is maintained, possibly automatically, within the solar system, to provide continuity for successive expeditions.

"Because of weathering and the possibility of detection and interference by the inhabitants of earth it would be preferable not to erect such a base on the earth's surface. The moon seems one reasonable alternative."

"Forthcoming photographic reconnaissance of the moon from space vehicles - particularly of the back - might bear these possibilities in mind."

At a news conference Sagan predicted man himself would be capable of interstellar flight at close to the speed of light "within a century or two."

Asked if he believed in flying saucers, he said: "I do believe there are objects which have hot be identified."

Link

Cheers.

reply to post by karl 12
Hiya Karl, I admire Stan Friedman's stubborn determination to uncover the FOIA docs that shed light on official knowledge of UFOs. He practically invented the FOIA strategy. His confidence in those few MJ-12 docs (you know the ones ) have drawn a lot of fire for his credibility. I'm undecided on them.

The one point that I wish he was more flexible on....is that he has drawn conclusions from the evidence. 'Prison Planet Theory' is plausible speculation. Stan's certainty leaves him open to the critics. Even Knapp and Redfern bemoan his certainty.

reply to post by Kandinsky


Hey Kandinsky, yes its probably best not to be too certain of anything in this field but I certainly do admire the man's tenacity - if it wasn't for folks like him (and John Greenewald Junior) there wouldn't be half as much government UFO literature in the public domain as there is today - I don't know if you've seen this presentation about Black Vault UFO documents but its well worth a watch.

As for the multitude of UFO origin theories out there I honestly don't know what to think....but I do have to say that I suspect some of the objects are not ours.

I'd also say that any discussion about the UFO subject should also include the USO subject as its reckoned nearly fifty percent of UFO reports occur near large bodies of water - after reading through Skyfloating's USO Research thread I think its becoming increasingly apparent that these objects are one in the same.

Cheers.

Originally posted by karl 12
I'd also say that any discussion about the UFO subject should also include the USO subject as its reckoned nearly fifty percent of UFO reports occur near large bodies of water...

I've always thought that if UFOs are piloted by non-human beings, then these beings are from Earth and have existed along side of us. 2/3s of the planet is water; why would the only sentient species evolve on land?

Then again, I know that is just pure speculation.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Can't help but think of the "flight of dolphins" in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy on this one....

Brings up a point though...the idea of the "typical gray" is really based mostly on abductee accounts versus a any kind of good evidence...

Personally, I tend to think the beings are from outside the solar system, vs. underwater. Just seems that we would have run into their civilizations by now, on accident, if so... Still, an interesting consideration though...(pictures the Abyss)

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Well, its certainly a fair point but then its also fair to say there's been a huge variety of UFO shapes (and UFO occupants) reported over the years - this is also just speculation on my part but maybe theres some element of truth to each of the Extra-terrestrial /Inter-terrestrial/ Extra-dimensional hypotheses and everythings going on at once.

Regarding your point, theres an interesting article below dealing with Russian Navy UFO files and underwater bases - its been said that we've only ever explored five percent of the world's oceans so god knows whats down there.

Russian Navy UFO records say aliens love oceans

The Russian navy has declassified its records of encounters with unidentified objects technologically surpassing anything humanity ever built, reports Svobodnaya Pressa news website.

The records dating back to soviet times were compiled by a special navy group collecting reports of unexplained incidents delivered by submarines and military ships. The group was headed by deputy Navy commander Admiral Nikolay Smirnov, and the documents reveal numerous cases of possible UFO encounters, the website says.

Vladimir Azhazha, former navy officer and a famous Russian UFO researcher, says the materials are of great value.

“Fifty percent of UFO encounters are connected with oceans. Fifteen more – with lakes. So UFOs tend to stick to the water,” he said.

On one occasion a nuclear submarine, which was on a combat mission in the Pacific Ocean, detected six unknown objects. After the crew failed to leave behind their pursuers by maneuvering, the captain ordered to surface. The objects followed suit, took to the air, and flew away.

Many mysterious events happened in the region of Bermuda Triangle, recalls retired submarine commander Rear Admiral Yury Beketov. Instruments malfunctioned with no apparent reason or detected strong interference. The former navy officer says this could be deliberate disruption by UFOs.

"On several occasions the instruments gave reading of material objects moving at incredible speed. Calculations showed speeds of about 230 knots, of 400 kph. Speeding so fast is a challenge even on the surface. But water resistance is much higher. It was like the objects defied the laws of physics. There’s only one explanation: the creatures who built them far surpass us in development,” Beketov said.

Navy intelligence veteran, Captain 1st rank Igor Barklay comments:

“Ocean UFOs often show up wherever our or NATO’s fleets concentrate. Near Bahamas, Bermudas, Puerto Rico. They are most often seen in the deepest part of the Atlantic Ocean, in the southern part of the Bermuda Triangle, and also in the Caribbean Sea.”

Another place where people often report UFO encounters is Russia’s Lake Baikal, the deepest fresh water body in the world. Fishermen tell of powerful lights coming from the deep and objects flying up from the water.

In one case in 1982 a group of military divers training at Baikal spotted a group of humanoid creatures dressed in silvery suits. The encounter happened at a depth of 50 meters, and the divers tried to catch the strangers. Three of the seven men died, while four others were severely injured.

“I think about underwater bases and say: why not? Nothing should be discarded,” says Vladimir Azhazha. “Skepticism is the easiest way: believe nothing, do nothing. People rarely visit great depths. So it’s very important to analyze what they encounter there.”

Link

Cheers.

reply to post by converge


Not really news but I'll post it anyway. Richard Doty was the first one to use the term MJ TWELVE. In 1980 he sent a fake teletype to Paul Bennewitz that read

The official US Government policy and results of Project Aquarius is [sic] still classified TOP SECRET with no dissemination outside channels and with access restricted to "MJ TWELVE".

There is more to it than stories and reports. If you have never heard about Dorothy Izatt nor watched the documentary Capturing the Light, you should. Disclosure will come about and perhaps it will happen this year or not. Probably it will occur near December 21, 2012. But these are guesses as to the time. Jesus Christ was supposed to come back for over 2000 years! Why hasn't he come back? I believe there are many people waking up to the real world, not the matrix that we live in and part of that is true spirituality. Not religion...that is BS IMHO. As the world wakes up and gets more spiritual, also getting less hostile and dangerous, then disclosure will come.

Originally posted by theWolfInsideMe
Not just the best post ever, THE MOST NEEDED POST EVER. Ive been waiting for someone levelheaded to write this exact post.

Seconded.

I read a lot of the stuff on ATS but tend not to post, mainly due to the fact I lack the, um, conviction of other members and so I rarely feel I can add anything worthwhile.

But I felt compelled on this occasion to just add a note of congratulations to Converge for the single most sensible, rational, well written, argued and presented post I've ever read here.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by karl 12
I'd also say that any discussion about the UFO subject should also include the USO subject as its reckoned nearly fifty percent of UFO reports occur near large bodies of water...

I've always thought that if UFOs are piloted by non-human beings, then these beings are from Earth and have existed along side of us. 2/3s of the planet is water; why would the only sentient species evolve on land?

Then again, I know that is just pure speculation.

Hey DDR,

I would imagine that aliens would have more fish-like traits if they evolved in the oceans of Earth. If accounts are to be believed, they breath the same atmosphere as us (Oxygen). It would have been more logical from an evolutionary standpoint for them to simply leave the ocean and become land creatures.... the path of least resistance.

It becomes a bit convoluted if they had to create domed cities under the water to live and evolve in. What materials would they have initially fashioned these cities with? How did they fabricate them without the fire and oxygen needed to refine metals, plastics and glass etc? Did they come to the surface to do this? If so, how did they survive? How did they fabricate the life support systems. It seems unrealistic that they could simply walk out of the water (initially anyway).

Water does not seem like the most hospitable environment to develop technologies... regardless of sentience.

IMHO, they may very well exist in the deepest parts of our oceans but are not indigenous to the planet. If you can traverse the galaxy, living in the deepest parts of our oceans would be a breeze. We certainly cannot achieve it with our current technology. We'd need to be much smarter.

Just my 2 cents...

IRM

errr.......... no disclosure yet? Didn't think so. I've seen so many of these disclosure moments in the past 20yrs alone! Anyway, it will keep all the 'experts' and book writers in employment for the next 2yrs as we approach 2012 whoooooooooaaana. Then just like Y2K there will be the next deadline and the next. Don't you remember the "end is neigh' placards of your past? This is just that with a few more bells and whistles on it and heck lets through in some wizz bang techno stuff (because you’re all so advanced these days).

Anyhoo, I'll leave you to your Star gates and Alien UFO religions and have a look in 2013 to see what your all up to then?

There are a lot more scary things right here right now that you don't have to prove with a shakey camcorder. You are living proof of it, its why we're all on these sites!

I don't think that until people can show tolerance on this world in such areas such as religion, race, sexual orientation, etc., etc., the Powers that Be won't disclose anything out of this world. The common man I feel won't be able to accept something that isn't from here. Once we as citizens of this planet stop calling a jihad every 5 minutes because others have a different belief system or we stop persecuting one group just because they are a different skin color, then disclosure will happen, but until then, we will be kept in the dark.

reply to post by mufon12347


What makes you so sure there's actually something to disclose?

I personally find it fairly absurd that these kinds of secrets could be kept for this long by so many people. I know that there have been conspiracies and secrets before, but this spans at least two generations, maybe even three, and nobody has said a word?

Originally posted by EsSeeEye
reply to post by mufon12347

 

What makes you so sure there's actually something to disclose?

I personally find it fairly absurd that these kinds of secrets could be kept for this long by so many people. I know that there have been conspiracies and secrets before, but this spans at least two generations, maybe even three, and nobody has said a word?

The fact is many people have said many many things, otherwise you wouldn't have any reason to post on this forum and this thread would most likely not exist. I think that it is naive to think that governments are incapable of keeping secrets, It seems to me that they are very good at it. What's more, is that corporations are even better at it than government. Do you know the secret recipe to KFC? :-)

reply to post by Tamale_214


How many people work within the government/military? How many people work at KFC? A bit of a difference wouldn't you say. I would speculate that the reason many people are here is because of the man in my signature below.

Originally posted by Tamale_214
Do you know the secret recipe to KFC? :-)

I'm not sure if the comparison applies.

From a quick wikipedia reading we find out that

Portions of the secret spice mix are made at different locations in the United States, and the only complete, handwritten copy of the recipe is kept in a vault in corporate headquarters. (...)
Only two executives had access to the recipe at any one time. KFC refuses to disclose the names and titles of either executive.

So we have secrecy and compartmentalization just like we are told happens with the UFO information and technology. However, the two cases diverge in that only two people seem to have had access to the KFC recipe at any one time, but with the UFO conspiracy stories, however, we are told and expected to believe that hundreds, if not thousands by now, of people have had access to the information in one way or another—they were told about it; were shown information; were shown technology and/or bodies; participated in crash retrievals and so on.

So which one is it? Is the Government very capable of keeping a secret or very inefficient?

Personally I think the answer is probably a mixture of the two, but where I think I diverge from what most people here believe is that I think the majority of what we were told, what the ‘insiders’ tell us and what the bulk of the UFO lore portrays is fabricated—either on purpose by disinformation artists, charlatans and hoaxers—or embellished and fantasized through time just like any other myth has during human history.

[edit on 5-2-2010 by converge]

Originally posted by EsSeeEye
reply to post by mufon12347

 

What makes you so sure there's actually something to disclose?

I personally find it fairly absurd that these kinds of secrets could be kept for this long by so many people. I know that there have been conspiracies and secrets before, but this spans at least two generations, maybe even three, and nobody has said a word?

Because we HAVE HAD disclosure. In 1994 we had disclosure about the fact the government lied to us about the weather balloon cover story for what crashed at Roswell, and they told us what really crashed. But nobody wants to believe the disclosure so they think another imaginary disclosure about Roswell is coming, well I got news for you folks, that was it. And if it seems to you that what Jesse Marcel found and described is not the remains of Mogul, then I suggest you study the topic of human psychology and recollection, as you will find your answers there and not waiting for some additional disclosure about Roswell.

We also continue to get disclosure of old previously classified documents showing what the government knows about UFOs, which in some cases might be a black project of ours but when it's not, they don't seem to have any more clue what it was than the rest of us. I will say the UK's MOD is faster to disclose their documents than the USA so thanks to the UK for that, but I think people are in denial saying we're not getting disclosure, we ARE, but just of older documents. That's the way it's been and will continue to be. You'll never get disclosure of all the latest classified documents, the system just doesn't work that way so you can stop wishing it will happen.

Well written thread, you put a lot of information together nicely and i agree with you it is one thing to say you know aliens exist and another thing to say you believe they exist! I agree, we should keep an open mind and consider all evidence brought forward but be careful not to jump to any conclusions wihtout obvious scientific evidence of their existance!

But, I have to tell you, you left one key element out of you thread that is crucial to all the UFO/ extraterrestrial evidence out there!

What about all the evidence backing the existance of extraterrestrials in our history, specifically talking about past civilizations; i.e. the Mayans, egyptians, etc... I mean all the evidence out there, the great pyramids in egypt, all the great architecural work in Mexico that is very simliar... All the drawings and artifcats, like the plane sculpture found around Egypt that depicts a machine that looks like a plane/ jet from todays standards..?

I also would like to express that their is probabley more evidence towards the existance of an outer civilization/ ET's than there is towards the existance of jesus and the all mighty creater GOD...

But, then again couldn't both of these things be the same? Aliens/ god being exactly the same just refrenced differentlyCouldn't aliens be our gods, just as others have expressed..? Would that be so far fetched?

[edit on 5-2-2010 by NoFilter2323]

Originally posted by hermantinkly

Originally posted by game over man
It's funny someone wrote about the Reptilians living in another dimensions controlling the world, haha that is pretty funny.

There's absolutely nothing funny about that, because The Reptilian consciousness has indoctrinated you (and the rest of humanity) so thoroughly that you are now too weak-minded to even fathom that they exist to begin with. Via religion, science, and other forms of subtle indoctrination (i.e., brainwashing), the Reptilians have steered you in the exact opposite direction of the truth, to the point where the concept of an alien master/creator is considered to be the ultimate crazy fantasy to ridicule and laugh at.

Strangely enough though, the concept of an imaginary god has been perfectly acceptable and is by no means considered to be the ultimate crazy fantasy in society. Yet, the concept of aliens is taboo, and is ultra-ridiculed in a freakish "hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil"-type fashion. Think about that for a second. Well, obviously, this is due to the fact that aliens are indeed real, whereas imaginary gods are not. Infact, the truth is that those imaginary gods were actually aliens that got turned into gods and were worshipped by the primitive humans.

[edit on 31-1-2010 by hermantinkly]

Exactly my point! S and F for you my friend! This is the theory i am going to take.... That is theory not fact!

If Forrestal went flying from his room at Bethesda in 1949 in an assisted suicide, some say because he was going to disclose, the question to be asked is why would they kill to prevent disclosure?

I don't think its because there are aliens flying around in those UFOs.

But who is?

And the answer to that question is why they will never disclose.

A related question is, if by commiting treason you felt you could save the maximum number of lives would you do so? And if you did commit treason would the public understand your reasons for doing so if you told them?