Iranian Election Protesters Executed

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Protesting the election, the election that you can't prove was rigged and neither can the protestors.

AND...

You can't prove it wasn't.
[Even Though Many Iranians are willing to and have put their lives on the line to say otherwise]

So here we are, back to square one.

reply to post by Ismail


And Iran itself.
This is round number two for Iran to get the big ole' American stiff one right up the kiester.

Originally posted by Ismail
So this would not work, "in your opinion" ? You prefer solution number 2 ? Well, it's your lucky day

More assumptions?

reply to post by SLAYER69


Yes with you cherry picking the questions you want to answer for emotional appeal!

Which is why you actually have to derail your own thread!

Because you are utterly afraid to discuss the makeup of those potestors, who was funding them, their real numbers, and what their actual real agenda is.

In other words any of the pertinent facts that lead to people being hung for treason.

reply to post by SLAYER69


We aren't back at square one, you ended this "debate" by illustrating yourself that these "protestors" (see: rioters) were killed for treason.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Yes with you cherry picking the questions you want to answer for emotional appeal!

Which is why you actually have to derail your own thread!

Reread your own replies and see who derails or deflects from the topic. You go on and on about Tea parties and China. I'm still here and ready to discuss the topic.

Because you are utterly afraid to discuss the makeup of those potestors, who was funding them, their real numbers, and what their actual real agenda is.

I'm still here ready to discuss the topic. The point is I just answered your questions and requested a reply with sources. You replied with more rhetoric about how I'm afraid to answer.

Now which is?

Who exactly is deflecting now?

reply to post by SyphonX


I nearly wet myself.

reply to post by SLAYER69


JayinAR: Slayer, perhaps it is because Iran is a theocratic society? I mean, it makes sense. It would be like someone trying to knock the snot out of the pope. The catholics see the pope as a sort of demigod, so that would be considered an act against god himself, right?

Slayer: True, but when was the last time the catholics shot someone for disagreeing with the pope? How many centuries has it been? (

Proto had this argument summed up on page one when he referenced Benedict Arnold.

The rest of this has been an emotive plea.

reply to post by SyphonX



Great reply.

Try this one on for size....
Iranian revolt Explained - Wake Up!

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Ismail
So this would not work, "in your opinion" ? You prefer solution number 2 ? Well, it's your lucky day

More assumptions?

All you have been putting forth is assumptions Slayer, and emotionally derived assumptions at that, while you go out of your way to not deal with any of the underlying issues of substance.

Conjecture plays a big part of getting to the bottom of any conspiracy but overlooking all your arguments are assumptive simply by trying to make them seem non-assumptive because of people examining a broader array of facts and intelligence than you are willing to consider or discuss to form conjecture does not make your arguments fact or non-assumptive.

It’s just a desperate way to try to keep the spotlight off the fact that your arguments are assumptive. As well as to keep the real facts of the true demographics, players, and motivations and agendas from being discussed, do you really imagine your attempts are fooling or dissuading anyone on the hunt for the truth?

I have hard data that says that no more than 20% of Iran is involved with these protests against the government. I have hard data that says they are almost entirely comprised of lower middle class students from Iran's Northern Suburbs. I have hard data showing in the past what other factions have to get involved for Iran to really be in true revolt. They have revolted many times, and always with a far broader mix of society than is currently protesting when they have been sucessful.

I have hard Data that the Shah's son is involved, that the Western Intelligence Agencies are involved that MOSSAD is involved.

All of which points to and paints an entirely different picture of the political landscape than the one you are simply trying to foist on people overwrought with emotion that you first try to manipulate.

The real facts won't go away Slayer and you really ought to consider them and be prepared to factor them into your arguments in intelligent and persuasive ways if you want your arguments to be effective.

Originally posted by SyphonX
reply to post by Ismail

 

Very well said.

Why is it we are constantly hearing about Iran, and not from any other of the handfuls of countries in the region? It's as if everything else is a blip on the news..

Why so much attention on Iran now?

To answer these questions, I had to dig deep, and I spent many months researching into this phenomena and after these many moons I was able to fully articulate and in this case, illustrate my response:

As can be clearly seen in the detailed map above, the US is currently living very close to Iran. So obviously, people in Iran are being directly effected by awesome democracy. They want this democracy because it is so close, they can taste it. Can you blame them? Of course there is no Imperial movement, we are merely trying promote a constant presence of peace and prosperity as their neighbors. Silly Iranians.

Clearly we should be concerned about 2 people being executed, not anything else, because the US is pure and has no influence or desire to intervene militarily or covertly, in Iran. That's just a deflection...

[edit on 29-1-2010 by SyphonX]

Sorry Slay , sometimes the answers are right there in front of your face.

All I would like to see on the map, is a Texaco Station.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
All you have been putting forth is assumptions Slayer, and emotionally derived assumptions at that, while you go out of your way to not deal with any of the underlying issues of substance.

See that's where you're wrong.

I'm not emotionally attached. That does great for playing on peoples opinion by making that statement over and over again. Attempting to belittle or undervalue my stance by trying to make it appear as if my replies are emotional outburst, that may work on some but not all. I see that some have already fallen for it.

reply to post by SLAYER69

I'm still here ready to discuss the topic. The point is I just answered your questions and requested a reply with sources. You replied with more rhetoric about how I'm afraid to answer.

Actually no you haven't answered my questions and I am obvioulsy not the only poster who believes you did not answer my questions.

Obviously if you are under some impression that you have answered my questions they were very poor answers that didn't even constitute answers.

People ask answers looking to get a certain bare minimum of information back in response.

Fail to provide that bare minimum and people will feel they have not gotten an answer and keep asking the questions.

1. Can you explain why the protesters are made up entirely of just one minority faction of society.

2. Can you explain why the Western Intelligence Agencies would want to see Mousavi in power when he was the Iranian President who founded Hezbollah and orchestrated the attack on the Marine Barracks in Lebanon?

3. Can you explain the difference between peaceful protestors and those who violently destroy state property and are funded by foreign intelligence agencies and directed by foreign intelligence agencies.

4. Can you prove the people hanged were not the latter, violent anarchists funded and directed by foreign powers?

Those are the questions you really haven't answered.

While you might have felt you answered them with emotional forms of deflection, you might want to think and frame some intellectual answers for them and post those instead, so I and other people will think you actually did answer them.

Thanks!

Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by SyphonX

 

Great reply.

Try this one on for size....
Iranian revolt Explained - Wake Up!

Impressive thread, very perceptive and well thought-out.

What gives, though? Why are you doing this Iran spiel when you should realize it's just the media/government's selling point on making Iran the next 'enemy'?

Everybody cares about the people, nobody wants to hear about someone being executed for nefarious reasons, but the media doesn't stop there. We'll hear more about Iran in less than a few days, you can bet on that. The reason is, we need to keep making them the next bogeyman.

So the more that's perpetuated, the more we all buy into the propaganda and the war path. Ultimately, for global power, resources, etc.. We are talking the biblical bedding grounds here, pretty important pieces of land.

Originally posted by Sean48
Sorry Slay , sometimes the answers are right there in front of your face.

All I would like to see on the map, is a Texaco Station.

Here is something from what I wrote on another thread. I'm well aware of the situation. It's still not discussing why the Iranians have executed their own Citizens in the name of God but ok here we go.

Iranian revolt Explained - Wake Up!
First off

I personally have nothing against the Iranian people, their Religion, Nationality, and didn't have much against their Government until recently. The Persians have a wonderfully illustrious history, rich in science, the Arts, Medicine. The list is almost endless.

Sadly they have oil under foot. This black Gold has corrupted people. Those who sell it, those who buy it, and those who covet it! As much Oil as they have it's not the real force behind what is transpiring today.

Iran is presently caught up in and in the way of a titanic struggle between global powers that are vying for the regions rich natural resources. For the past 30 or 40 years this area was the Middle East. Now however it has been over shadowed by the next arena.

Central Asia The oil reserves there shrink the gulf states to nothing. It will be the flash point of the future.

Undoubtedly Central Asia’s strategic importance in international affairs
is growing. The rivalries among Russia, China, United States, Iran, India,
and Pakistan not to mention the ever-changing pattern of relations among
local states (five former Soviet republics and Afghanistan) make the region’s
importance obviously clear. Central Asia's strategic importance for Washington, Moscow, and Beijing varies with each nation’s perception of its strategic interests.

Washington focuses primarily on Central Asia as an important theater in the war on terrorism. Additionally, it is viewed as a theater where America might counter a revived Russia or China, or a place to blunt any extension of Iranian influence. Moscow and Beijing view the region as a vital locale for defending critical domestic interests. This asymmetry of interest is

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d54f5ff0968c.jpg[/atsimg]

If you look closely at the above map you will notice the surrounding countries. Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Russia, China, and Pakistan. Both Iran and Pakistan are in "Play" We need our bad guys the "Taliban" back in the game. They tend to be pretty smart they don't want to hang around Afghanistan they tend to die there so they go back home to Pakistan.

Following me so far?

Pakistan pushes them back across the border so we can have our "Enemy". So we can still have an excuse to be in the Region.

China gets a huge chunk of it's oil from Iran. We are in Iraq and Afghanistan. China is desperate for oil.... Iran supplies that oil! It has supported their economic boom. Without it their boom goes bust. It seems a great way to keep in check the power that holds most of Americas dept. Wouldn't you agree?

And they know it!

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d473443d5a5f.jpg[/atsimg]
The fight with the "Taliban" is not supposed to end. It's an excuse to be in the region to be a player in the future of central Asia. Think of Good Cop/Bad Cop

Bush- Bad Cop!
Comes in through the front door guns a blazing. We are here to fight Terrorism! We take Iraq and invade Afghanistan.

Obama- Good Cop!
He will fix everything, Works all the back door channels. We stay in the region. Iraq war is pretty much over except for the occasional bombings. Doesn't really matter to us because they are mostly killing themselves. "HURRAY for Democracy" We increase our numbers in Afghanistan and decrease our numbers in Iraq.

The New Great Game


Following me so far?

Russia needs the oil reserves in the region to either stop or have very low production rates.

WHY?

Because they will be in direct competition with the future oil producers in that region! Russia's economy is desperate for the oil revenues. Apparently Communism was a flop! That's why. So that's their "Piece" in the "Game"

China needs oil desperately in order to keep the growth cycle going!
So they go around the world making oil deals. Venezuela Anybody?

WHY?

Otherwise despite "Pop culture" view that China is the new world power their economy grinds to a halt without oil. That's Why! So that's their "Piece" in the "Game"


The US will be a player like it or not We are the only ones with the means to reach around the world and touch somebody! That's our "Piece" in the "Game"

They are all unhappy especially Iran about having the US in their collective backyards and they all know they cant really do squat about it!

The games a foot.

Correct me if I'm wrong but who exactly was one of the first person Obama went to see early on in his "Presidency"
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/52af45170224.jpg[/atsimg]

I've been sitting here for days, weeks and months watching the headlines and reading everybody's responses here at ATS to this "action" or that "attack".

Whose to blame?

Was it the CIA, FSB, Mossad, The Iranians, The Chinese, The Taliban, Al Qaeda etc etc etc? Yadda Yadda Blah Blah Blah

The Answer is YES!

Understand what is really going on!

What about the present situation in Iran? Remember Chaos as you well know is always a good thing in the "Game" Whether they get overthrown or not is not really important, what is important is that we stay in the region AKA "The Game"

So please the next time you're on a thread and people start flinging accusations at each other over which country to blame or whose the favored "Super" power or "Up" Coming Global power understand that if you have a car and when you put your key in the ignition to drive to work, school, or to take little Timmy to baseball practice remember there is more in your tank than just GAS!

If you find anything I've written here worth more attention please come support A Possible new board here at ATS
Thank you that's my $0.02

PEACE

Slay

reply to post by SLAYER69


There you go with that "doesn't explain why the iranians killed their own people in the name of god" stuff again.
I apologize for telling you that your thread sucks, Slayer. But it really does, kinda'.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Maybe some of them haven't "fall" for it but they just,let's say,agree?

Like SyphonX very nicely pointed out,all the spotlights are on Iran for some reason,aren't they?I guess they must be pretty special....one way or another...Even here in ATS we see that.

You know what?I'm not afraid to say that Iran is not special for me.So,a good question would be,for whom are special?


Or maybe you're right and i'm one of the non-thinking fools (i know,you haven't said those words but you can agree,i hope,that that's what you meant ) .

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Iranian revolt Explained - Wake Up!

Ok, now I'm confused. In the other thread, you are basically saying the same thing as everyone here debating you. So what on earth is THIS thread about ?

Two guys bought it in Iran, because they live in a awful country, that is sitting on a fortune they can't exploit. Its horrible.

Yep it is. Umm...

Was that what you wanted to hear ?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Actually no you haven't answered my questions and I am obvioulsy not the only poster who believes you did not answer my questions.

Again.

Which one is that?

Obviously if you are under some impression that you have answered my questions they were very poor answers that didn't even constitute answers.

Again Which one is that?

People ask answers looking to get a certain bare minimum of information back in response.

Again which one is that?

Fail to provide that bare minimum and people will feel they have not gotten an answer and keep asking the questions.

1. Can you explain why the protesters are made up entirely of just one minority faction of society.

I don't know how sure are you that's it's just a small minority?
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1e792684232c.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/efb93a1bf8a8.jpg[/atsimg]

2. Can you explain why the Western Intelligence Agencies would want to see Mousavi in power when he was the Iranian President who founded Hezbollah and orchestrated the attack on the Marine Barracks in Lebanon?

Apparently you didn't answer my request for proof of your opinion given as fact. Prove that that's what they want then we will discuss it.

3. Can you explain the difference between peaceful protestors and those who violently destroy state property and are funded by foreign intelligence agencies and directed by foreign intelligence agencies.

No I can't. Can you demonstrate that the only reason they are protesting is because of Foreign Intelligence funding them?

4. Can you prove the people hanged were not the latter, violent anarchists funded and directed by foreign powers?

No I can't.
Can you prove that they were attempting to overthrow the Government?

Those are the questions you really haven't answered.

Done.
Stick a fork in it.

While you might have felt you answered them with emotional forms of deflection, you might want to think and frame some intellectual answers for them and post those instead, so I and other people will think you actually did answer them.

Thanks!

Again attempting to belittle my replies with more references to "Emotional Responses" Need I remind you that the same can be said regarding some of your replies?



[edit on 29-1-2010 by SLAYER69]