Iranian Election Protesters Executed

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Roberto Calvi in 1982, considered to be G-d's banker in London would be the last KNOWN time the Vatican had someone killed.

What "political" views got him killed? Are we sure it was the "Vatican" or simply a Mafia hit aimed at the Vatican? That basket has too many snakes for it to be a real comparison. Emotional drivel knee jerk response?

I also noticed you didn't touch on the fact that Mousavi who is the main opposition candidate founded Hezbollah and was implicated in the Marine Barracks bombing in Lebanon either and just why the U.S. Government would want to see him back in power?

Here's the deal...

You "Assume" that what "The US Government" wants matters in the public opinion of Iran. It Doesn't. The average "Iranian" will decide for themselves. I say let the Iranians decide for themselves who they want to Govern them. This can't happen if every time somebody stands up for themselves they end up swinging from a rope or shot.


[edit on 29-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69

Here's the deal...

You "Assume" that what "The US Government" wants matters in the public opinion of Iran. It Doesn't. The average "Iranian" will decide for themselves. I say let the Iranians decide for themselves who they want to Govern them. This can't happen if every time somebody stands up for themselves they end up swinging from a rope or shot.

Here is the deal the fact is the Iranians have already decided for themselves.

Even though every major Western and Iranian poll showed the incumbent would win the Iranian election allegations of voter fraud were made two hours after the polls in Iran opened.

Personally I think it would have been wise to wait until the Polls were closed and the results tabulated before making such a claim but when you are out to destabilize you are out to destabilize.

If you actually read the Article I posted on the front page you would understand the actual demographics and the fact that nowhere near a majority of the Iranian people are opposed to the regime.

Should the vocal minority rule, or should the silent majority rule?

Once again you avoid the hard questions and the hard facts to simply pursue the politics of emotion that are here in the West designed to destabilize the regime and lead to a power vacuum inside Iran and seize on that opportunity to install the Shah as an interim solution because so many internal factions have been destabilized, compromised and set up against one another with Western Money and Western Intelligence Agency Guidance.

These protests aren’t occurring everyday like they did when there was a genuine revolution afoot in Iran they have only occurred when singular events combined with Western Funding and Organization could be made to mobilize some of the Iranian people not anywhere near a majority of the Iranian people to protest. Likewise the protestors only represent one slice by and large of a multi-faceted society.

Patterns exist in how the Western Media and Governments portray such events, patterns that lead to Regime Change and Preemptive War that Americans emotionally support when their emotions are made to run high, but later question when they see the actual on the ground results of them in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.

Amazingly once a sucker always a sucker and the people who realize they were duped onto an emotional roller coaster in Afghanistan and Iraq with lies and misconstrued threats and events, amazingly hop right back on that emotional roller coaster the next time a new fresh ride comes along.

The people of Iran did vote, and the ballots were even recounted and the results were still the same.

Honestly I consider the fools who promote these half truth/half lie stories in ways that avoid the actual substance of the fact to focus on the emotional appeal to be every bit as dangerous and deadly as a hard lined dictator.

It is after all such attitudes that lead to millions of deaths in these wars of Americans and Arabs and Muslims and soon to be Persians alike.

The fact that you avoid issues of substance for generalities and couching your arguments in emotional appeal and thumbs down peer pressure, while avoiding the deeper issues of substance of demographics, candidates, and off stage players speaks for itself Slayer.

It speaks of someone pushing a poorly thought out agenda based on garnering support through emotional manipulation and that is the very dangerous thing that has led America to utter ruin.

To back up Protoplasmic Traveller here, one could also argue that Iran has only practiced such repression since the Islamic Revolution (which coincidentally was only made possible by the intervention of CIA and MI5 agents during "operation Ajax") because since then, they have always been under pressure, a puppet nation in the greater conflicts of the world.

So if you want to start blaming someone for these executions, blame the people who put the current regime in place (the same guys who created the Taliban in Afghanistan), because they were afraid of a "commie" takeover during the cold war.

I'll add that at the moment, Iran is under renewed pressure from the west. They know that they have been infiltrated by foreign agents, who are actively working to overthrow the Mollahs. They know, because the people who put them in place, used the same techniques to overthrow Mossadegh. They know how the system works. So what do you expect ? Of course they are out there trying to kill the Jackals. If the west wasn't on their back (not that I approve the current regime, far from it) then they would'nt go around randomly killing political opponents, and hoping they get, or at least spook, the right guys.

reply to post by LadySkadi

It really does emphasize what some would take for granted. The right to protest and to voice ones dissent. While we in the US take it for granted, people in Iran and other countries are putting their lives on the line. It's not the first time and won't be the last. It's both inspirational and sad. I hate to see stories like this. Peace to their families, I hope they find it.

Barbaric to say the say the least. With out taking anything away from your point Skadi, we don't take it for granted like we use to. Not with
our govt. trying to pry those rights from our hands, telling us those same people hate us for having freedoms. How messed up is that?

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Here is the deal the fact is the Iranians have already decided for themselves.

Well apparently thousands if not millions of Iranians disagree with you. I highly doubt those that take to the streets give a Rats Furry Butt what Washington or London have to say on the matter. We can discuss what the CIA had done in the past. I agree and support learning from history but it's time to transition from the past to the present.

We can sit here all day long discussing what the CIA, MI5 and the PTA have done. This does not address the current root causes for why the Iranians are taking to the streets.

Have you ever considered the possibility that you may be wrong?

reply to post by SLAYER69


It does not adress the current reasons as to why the Iranians are taking to the streets ? You are kidding right ? So all the regime changes in the PAST, which were grossly manipulated for the sake of western policy, by paying people to protest, and using "independant" media to gain support for the protesters, you accept that all that happened, but this time, IT IS DIFFERENT ?

Please explain why.


[edit on 29-1-2010 by Ismail]

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

IT IS DIFFERENT ?

Please explain why.

The Persians are not simple minded puppets who do the bidding of the west. They rightly overthrew a bad Government once back in 1979. They are now in the process of doing the same. Their Own.

Simply because the west may or may not gain in the equation shouldn't be cause to reduce it to a discussion about the WILL of the west.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Here is the deal the fact is the Iranians have already decided for themselves.

Well apparently thousands if not millions of Iranians disagree with you. I highly doubt those that take to the streets give a Rats Furry Butt what Washington or London have to say on the matter. We can discuss what the CIA had done in the past. I agree and support learning from history but it's time to transition from the past to the present.

We can sit here all day long discussing what the CIA, MI5 and the PTA have done. This does not address the current root causes for why the Iranians are taking to the streets.

Have you ever considered the possibility that you may be wrong?

And once again what you are purporting is all based on your own emotionally driven wishful thinking.

You haven't dealt with the actual demographics of Iran, you don't even know them or how they shape into it, and you certainly don't know the real numbers of who is involved.

What you know is how to sieze on carefully crafted propaganda commissioned by the Pahlavis and Western Intelligence and Mass Media and then shape it into an emotional argument where you then do your level best to avoid the hard facts on the ground while appealing people to use emotional transferrance to form a perspective that fits into their highly manipulated and instilled world view.

As I have said the fact that you have no real information about the actuall makeup of the Iranian culture where various factions stand on the issue their true numbers, and the true players and motives involved just makes yours an emotional argument.

And while intellectuals appeal to you to examine the facts you simply keep looking for emotional ways to avoid any direct, honest or crediblble examination of the actual facts through deflection of the language of emotion and assumptions made from that emotion.

That's not denying ignorance, nor looking for the truth, that's a desperate attempt to push an emotional agenda.

Just saying!

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
And once again what you are purporting is all based on your own emotionally driven wishful thinking.

You haven't dealt with the actual demographics of Iran, you don't even know them or how they shape into it, and you certainly don't know the real numbers of who is involved.

And you have a great infallible insight?
www.presstv.ir...

A senior Iranian cleric and official on Friday warned that inaction about the rioters who gave raise to the unrest that followed the June presidential election would have severe consequences for the country.

Tehran's Interim Friday Prayers Leader Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, who heads the Guardian Council, urged Judiciary Chief Ayatollah Sadeq Amoli Larijani to firmly deal with “rioters of the recent unrest and in particular the Ashura desecrators.”

"The same way you quickly executed the two Moharebs (those who have waged war on God), stand your ground and take action about the rest of them (rioters)," the Islamic Republic News Agency quoted Ayatollah Jannati as telling Ayatollah Larijani.

"If rioters are not dealt with firmly and strongly," the cleric said, "the situation will become more serious in the future."

The anti-government protests on December 27 coincided with Ashura mourning ceremonies, when protesters damaged public property, set fire to trashcans, and clashed with security forces who attempted to restore order.

Judiciary officials said Thursday they were studying the appeals of nine rioters who have been handed the death penalty over their involvement in plots against the Islamic Republic following the June presidential election.

The nine will be executed if the Court of Appeal upholds the sentences.

They have been found guilty of the charges of being a Mohareb, attempting to topple the Islamic establishment, and their membership in the terrorist group Mujahedeen Khalq Organization (MKO).

AR/HGH/MD

[edit on 29-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

So you are saying that the US/west has NO agents in Iran trying to overthrow the regime ? That the west has No interest in Iranian Oil, in which it could invest once the regime falls ? You are saying that the fact that we westerners have started "hearing" about the protests, and "alternative culture" in Iran since 2008 (which gathered in steam until and after the election in 2009), has nothing to do with the fact that in 2008 Iran started trading it's oil in Euros, and no longer in dollars, thus challenging the hegemony of the Petrodollar ?

Not to rain on your parade, folks, but if you don't want people coming and "talking about the US", then maybe you shouldn't continue to goad and taunt IN EVERY THREAD in the entirety of ATS, including this one.

It didn't take but the first reply before someone was talking about, "People hate on the US". Then it snowballed.

Can it. I'm tired of the false integrity always being shown. You people do not care about any Iranians being executed, it is quite clear in your dramatic efforts to ensure people are angry at Iran and nothing more. Whenever someone challenges you on your "Pro-American" views, you instantly try to force them back into Iran.

Beating the war-drums much? Nah.. you're just concerned with a struggling people.. right,

If you were half as sincere as you set out to be, then maybe you wouldn't find yourself in other threads With Nothing To Do With Iran, telling everyone to worry about Iran instead.

I see, this is the love and spirituality that Ahmadinejad spoke about recently.


[edit on 29-1-2010 by Mdv2]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Actually all you are doing is once again attempting to deflect away from the hard facts of the Demographics in Iran by trying to frame an emotional appeal.

You can’t talk about the hard demographics and how they fit into it because an intelligent discussion on them would expose the truth and that is the fact that only a small but vocal Western funded and instructed dissociated Student Youth faction is protesting.

That defeats the notion that the majority and a broad array of Iranians are unhappy with their government so you can’t intelligently discuss that because that’s the intelligent conclusion Academics familiar with the actual demographics on the ground have all concluded.

You can’t discuss either why the West would want to see Mousavi be given the Presidency when he founded Hezbollah and Lebanon and orchestrated and funded the attack on the Marine Barracks there when he was previously the President of Iran.

It would be after all like America saying Saddam Hussein would make a great new President for Iraq!

So all you can do is point to articles saying look, look they are killing people, don’t ask why, assume why, and assume its some great evil that we must commit ourselves to a new war and massive donations of dollars to stop!

Assume that these Iranians who support Mousavi the founder of what’s considered a Terrorist Organization and a plotter that has taken hundred’s of American lives are just like you and me and love Chevy and Apple Pie and Baseball and the only reason they are being hung is because they love Chevy and Apple Pie and Baseball.

The reality is nothing could be further than the truth, and you my friend aren’t interested in truth but are simply interested in inflaming people’s emotions and using that towards an agenda where lots and lots and lots and then some more Iranians are going to die.

Innocent Iranians not in bed with leaders who found Terrorist Organizations and innocent Iranians who aren’t in bed with the SAVAK, CIA, MI6 and the MOSSAD, and innocent Iranians who don’t want to see their nation become the next war torn corrupt puppet government ruled Iraq or Afghanistan.

You can deflect all day, but I will in fact point out the fact that you are deflecting.

Presenting one piece of a puzzle out of context and trying to make the puzzle reflect that one piece is not the actual real or true makeup of the puzzle or how that piece fits in to it.

Conspiracy theorists are going to track those pieces down and look at the whole puzzle and get at the truth regardless of what it is and they won’t let their emotions get in the way or be manipulated.

The easily manipulated, brainwashed, duped and exploited bankrupt and unemployed masses though love your emotional appeal because it gives them something to vent all those emotions felt through those indignities onto something.

So they can be manipulated all over again, brainwashed and duped some more, exploited further, and driven deeper into enslaving debt and a total loss of ability to think rationally and intellectually and ask hard questions prepared to deal with hard answers.

My hero! America is so much better off for these things

Originally posted by Ismail
So you are saying that the US/west has NO agents in Iran trying to overthrow the regime ?

So you're saying that the Iranians can't possibly have any other reasons for protesting their Government? That the Persians are simple minded people who just go along with whatever the CIA, MI5 tell them to do? That their Government has no blame in ANYTHING that's wrong within Iran?

That's a very myopic view of things. I've never denied the FACT that west have agents running around within Iran. But to simply state that those are the sole reasons for the unrest is being very Naive. If anything the "Agents" are trying to take advantage of the already existing festering situation.





[edit on 29-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Actually all you are doing is once again attempting to deflect away from the hard facts of the Demographics in Iran by trying to frame an emotional appeal.

Actually...

I asked you some point blank questions.

Are you infallible?
Could you be wrong?

They are not very lengthy or complicated questions.
Wouldn't you agree?

A lot of people seem to be under the impression that the Iranians' votes
really mattered.I don't think so,I think their election was just for show
and tell.That gives the rest of the world the idea they have elected their
leader.When,in fact they have not,I believe the ayatollah picks the new
"leader".I could be wrong in my assumption,but,I don't think so.

reply to post by SLAYER69


If all you wanted to do was ask simple questions and sympathize for the Iranians, you would have stopped quite a while ago.

What you did instead however, intentionally or not, has been to tug a heart string or two (Problem>Reaction), then you argue the simple answers and pose mystifying pauses and confusion beyond the actual events. So instead of just saying, "Man, that is horrible.", you're going to expect an emotional response and then start throwing change at it. That's all you want, you only want a raw emotional response, and when you have enough or feel the time is right, you deflect into a pro-war, pro-intervention stance.

It's kind of a dull argument, it's very transparent, made abundantly clear with your feigned "Who me?" responses.

Anyway...

If you just want simple answers,

Yes, I agree with you, them being executed is decidedly heinous and not very humanly, in my opinion. I'm never really for capital punishment, and obviously not for veiled political treason.

^ That's where that ends, because thats about all I can say in the matter. If I continued to go into it, then I would start appealing to the war-hungry emotional American demographic, and this is what happened up to the invasion of Iraq, albeit being much quicker that time.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Ismail
So you are saying that the US/west has NO agents in Iran trying to overthrow the regime ?

So you're saying that the Iranians can't possibly have any other reasons for protesting their Government? That the Persians are simple minded people who just go along with whatever the CIA, MI5 tell them to do? That their Government has no blame in ANYTHING that's wrong within Iran?

That's a very myopic view of things. I've never denied the FACT that west have agents running around within Iran. But to simply state that those are the sole reasons for the unrest is being very Naive. If anything the "Agents" are trying to take advantage of the already existing festering situation.





[edit on 29-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

What festering situation would that be? Defeated candidates who couldn't garner enough votes to win election having upset supporters who wanted their minority opinion to rule at any and all cost including taking foreign money and aide to promote it at any and all costs.

Once again which Intelligence Agency do you imagine wants Mousavi to be President of Iran again when he founded Hezbollah and orchestrated the murder of hundreds of U.S. Marines in Lebanon through a terrorist attack?

Naive is believing the West is supporting his candidacy. Intelligent would be saying the West is simply trying to do what ever it can to destablize Iran and make it ungovernable by any existing faction to bring in a new faction to act as a bridge between them all.

Your deflective arguments make no sense Slayer.

Not to anyone thinking critically.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

You can deflect all day, but I will in fact point out the fact that you are deflecting.

Whose been deflecting? I've been asking questions.
Yes I have my opinions.

Conspiracy theorists are going to track those pieces down

The easily manipulated, brainwashed, duped and exploited bankrupt and unemployed masses though love your emotional appeal because it gives them something to vent all those emotions felt through those indignities onto something.

Eloquently written. but...

What does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?
NOTHING. More Deflection?

So they can be manipulated all over again, brainwashed and duped some more, exploited further, and driven deeper into enslaving debt and a total loss of ability to think rationally and intellectually and ask hard questions prepared to deal with hard answers.

Star for your response. I love a good deflection

My hero! America is so much better off for these things

emotional appeal

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Actually all you are doing is once again attempting to deflect away from the hard facts of the Demographics in Iran by trying to frame an emotional appeal.

Actually...

I asked you some point blank questions.

Are you infallible?
Could you be wrong?

They are not very lengthy or complicated questions.
Wouldn't you agree?

Actually no what you did was answer my questions with unrelated questions of your own, that’s called a deflection and control tactic that is dishonest and disingenuous wouldn’t you agree?

You have avoided my very real and intelligent questions about the demographics in Iran the key players and funders since the first page, and just about everyone else’s intelligent, serious, probing questions that honest examination of would actually defeat your emotional driven propaganda.

So why do you keep avoiding people’s hard and intelligent probing questions by trying to answer them with questions of your own aimed at deflecting from them and taking the topic into emotional venues instead of intellectual venues?

Do you understand Slayer that Conspiracy Theorists unlike Propagandists are disciplined investigators who are on the quest for facts and the truth, not on side trips into emotional la la land?

Or are you no longer able to hang with the big dogs here on ATS?