Iranian Election Protesters Executed

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler

Actually no what you did was answer my questions with unrelated questions of your own, that’s called a deflection and control tactic that is dishonest and disingenuous wouldn’t you agree?

Simply not answering questions are also an example of deflection. We can again play this game all day long.

You have avoided my very real and intelligent questions about the demographics in Iran the key players and funders since the first page, and just about everyone else’s intelligent, serious, probing questions that honest examination of would actually defeat your emotional driven propaganda.

I haven't avoided it.

That's your opinion. Not a point of fact. Understand that simply because I disagree with your opinion doesn't mean I'm dodging anything. Proto you know me, I respect your opinion. Always have, but it's an OPINION.

So why do you keep avoiding people’s hard and intelligent probing questions by trying to answer them with questions of your own aimed at deflecting from them and taking the topic into emotional venues instead of intellectual venues?

Again whose avoiding? You and many on here have stated how they felt and what they thought. It's not my job to dissect everything. Let's begin again....

What question have I avoided and I'll give a point by point answer.

Fair Enough?

Do you understand Slayer that Conspiracy Theorists unlike Propagandists are disciplined investigators who are on the quest for facts and the truth, not on side trips into emotional la la land?

I'm sorry I've seen and read too much from some "Fine Conspiracists" here at ATS. I'm telling you it's not looking too good if that's the major source of your interests.

Or are you no longer able to hang with the big dogs here on ATS?

emotional appeal?

When you come down off of your high horse maybe we can discuss it.


[edit on 29-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

Yes, of course they are. No one will deny that there exists, in Iran, a minority of upper-class, educated students, with access to internet, who are pissed off because they can't listen to rock & roll, wear a skirt, or have a girlfriend. There also exists, throughout the world, a minority of exiled middle-aged intellectuals, many of whom are leftwing/communist atheists, who also hate the regime, and profess their hate of the regime through any media which will allow them to. I happen to be a very leftwing atheist, and I could not agree more with them.

However. The majority of the Iranian people are poor, uneducated, and fervently religious, as the last elections proved. This "festering" you speak of, has nothing to do with them. You appear to belive that it is the wests "mission" to export democracy, by arms if necessary. The Iranians have a democracy, a shunny, stunted form of democracy, (but no less than, say, the democracy", in the US, which is controlled by big buisiness instead of influential mollahs). The Iranian people voted. They have the governement they wanted. So play by the rules. Democracy isn't (should'nt be) about getting the guy YOU want in, elected. It is about the peoples decision.

The western agents "exploiting" the "festering", are doing nothing more than planning a coup for the benefit of their own nation, in a country where people are not ready for change, and do not desire it as a majority. When they succeed, and no doubt they will, they will create a situation comparable to the situation in Afghanistan. A civil war, between the western backed progressives, and the radical religious nuts. Many, many people will suffer and die during the long, drawn out ensuing political turmoil. Not just two.

But hey, you'll have created a whole new birthplace for crazy suicide bombers, who will create fear for you, maybe attack the west, and justify for a new war/coup somewhere else, which is always handy. Plus western oil, arms, and construction buisinesses will be able to leach on to Iranian ressources like the proverbial teat, and you'll make a fat packet of cash. If you're really lucky, you might even get your, sorry, "their" new "democratic" governement to take out a nice big loan from the IMF. That's the mother lode.

And thankfully, your own citizens support your actions, because you showed them two poor dudes, that your own agents manipulated into the opposition in the first place, getting hung, because fifty years ago, your intelligence agency created a paranoid monster of a country, in the name of "democracy", using the exact same, if less perfected maybe, propaganda techniques that you are using now.

Brilliant.


[edit on 29-1-2010 by Ismail]

hmm,
from the article in the OP:

The charge of membership in armed groups opposed to the Tehran ruling establishment is widely taken to be a reference the Mujahedeen Khalq Organization, or MEK, as well as groups loyal to the Western-backed monarchy toppled by the 1979 Islamic revolution.

MEK fought Iran's monarchy in the 1960s and the current Islamic establishment in the 1980s. It moved its base to neighboring Iraq soon after 1979 revolution and is said to have provided Americans with intelligence on Iran. The U.S. lists MEK as a terrorist organization, but the European Union removed it from its terror list last year.

Iran has accused both groups of involvement in the assassination this month of an Iranian physicist.

They don't sound like protesters, they sound like the guys the US and CIA were funding to foment unrest against the government.

Seems the OP was selective in his quote and hoped people would react to that and not read the whole article.

How again does the west deal with spies and agnets provocateurs, who advocate armed insurrection against the deomractically elected government?

That's right, the penalty is death - unless of course the "other side" happens to have caught a couple of your guys and you can do an exchange.

Before anyone asks for proof, try doing a search right here on ATS for CIA sponsored terrorist groups in Iran - I've read the threads, and so can anyone else if they bother actually looking at this with an open mind - and frankly, I'm tired of doing the leg work for people who can't be bothered to look at more than one side of an issue.

It wouldn't be the first time the US had overthrown a democratic government in that country - last time was 1953, which has led to the huge mess we have today, with the US and UK still up to their tricks of closet imperialism in the name of democracy.

Worst thing is, people still believe the liars who call themselves our leaders...



[edit on 29/1/2010 by budski]

Originally posted by Ismail
You appear to belive that it is the wests "mission" is to export democracy, by arms if necessary. The Iranians have a democracy, a shunny, stunted form of democracy, (but no less than the "democracy", in say, the US).

I honestly could care less who they got into office. I noticed you made some assumptions about what I thought their type of Government should be.

"Democracy" Show me where I have stated this?

The Iranian people voted. They have the governement they wanted. Play by the rules. Democracy isn't (sould'nt be) about getting the guy YOU want in elected. It is about the peoples decisions

Brilliant.

Yes and execute anybody who stands outside of the Iranian Governments view of a good loyal Citizen in the name of God.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Ok, so what is the right thing to do ? That's a real question, just for you. You are the US governement. What do you do ? Just to see what your getting at.

(on a side note, I am actually amazed at the relatively low amount of political executions in Iran, considering the pressure they are under at the moment.)

Originally posted by Ismail
reply to post by SLAYER69

 

Ok, so what is the right thing to do ? That's a real question, just for you. You are the US governement. What do you do ? Just to see what your getting at.

I'm not the US Government. I say let the Iranians figure this one out. If that means kicking their present leadership to the street then so be it. However If "God Forbid" the Regime wakes up and actually allows the opposition to function safely within their own government without fear of arrests or execution then more power to them.

(on a side note, I am actually amazed at the relatively low amount of political executions in Iran, considering the pressure they are under at the moment.)

Well let me ask you a question?

If more have been executed how would you know? PressTV?
Seriously, how do you know just exactly how many have possibly been killed? We don't know. Now do we.

reply to post by SLAYER69


So if I understand you correctly you are saying you are incapable and do not desire to have an intellectual discussion on the actual demographics of Iran and the actual numbers and make up of the protesters.

That further you do not wish to have an intellectual discussion on the actual political players and the various foreign elements funding various opposing factions within Iran, in favor of you ignoring those to instead to pose leading questions out of context aimed at emotional and not intellectual responses?

Further that you imagine if a protester from an American Tea Party were to destroy State Property in that protest and be arrested and once arrested it was discovered that he used equipment supplied by Chinese Intelligence to destroy State Property during a protest against the State and further the money he had in his bank account could be traced to Chinese Intelligence that despite the destruction of government property and the aide by foreign powers he should be treated as someone just waving a sign that said We Want Peace Now and singing koom-bai-ya?

That five pages into the thread you still find a compelling reason to avoid answering the intellectual and thought provoking questions asked of you on the first page?

Gotcha, you aren’t on ATS to foster credible debate or be an honest credible debater but to frame emotional arguments and responses.

What do they pay you for that? Who pays you for that? Who really is so desperate to drag America into yet another bankrupting and self defeating war without first examining all the facts in intellectual and honest discussion?

misleading title, they were executed because the tried to overthrow the government!! theres a difference

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
So if I understand you correctly you are saying you are incapable and do not desire to have an intellectual discussion on the actual demographics of Iran and the actual numbers and make up of the protesters.

That further you do not wish to have an intellectual discussion on the actual political players and the various foreign elements funding various opposing factions within Iran, in favor of you ignoring those to instead to pose leading questions out of context aimed at emotional and not intellectual responses?

I have to read through the opinion parts of your replies to get to the questions.

Answer: Again I'll answer as we go.

Further that you imagine if a protester from an American Tea Party were to destroy State Property in that protest and be arrested and once arrested it was discovered that he used equipment supplied by Chinese Intelligence to destroy State Property during a protest against the State and further the money he had in his bank account could be traced to Chinese Intelligence that despite the destruction of government property and the aide by foreign powers he should be treated as someone just waving a sign that said We Want Peace Now and singing koom-bai-ya?

More OPINION given as a point of fact before the question.
Answer: What does Tea Parties and China have to do with The Iranian Government Executing some of their Citizens?

That five pages into the thread you still find a compelling reason to avoid answering the intellectual and thought provoking questions asked of you on the first page?

Answer: I've just reread the first page I only see some rhetorical questions and a long post by yourself giving an Opinion.

Gotcha, you aren’t on ATS to foster credible debate or be an honest credible debater but to frame emotional arguments and responses.

Got what?
Answer: Are we playing some sort of game or discussing the original topic of how the Iranian Government executed some of their own citizens?

What do they pay you for that? Who pays you for that? Who really is so desperate to drag America into yet another bankrupting and self defeating war without first examining all the facts in intellectual and honest discussion?

Answer: I'm still trying to find the original topic in your last reply.

When you want to discuss what the Iranian Government has done in the name of God let me know. I'll check this thread and remember we have a little thing here called U2U.


[edit on 29-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

reply to post by SLAYER69


Right. You don't want to role play, or say what your getting at ? Fine.

Here's what I'd do, because I am not bent on turning Iran into a hellhole for the next fifty years, while raping the countries ressources for all their worth.

1) Pull out my agents.

2) Extend the hand of friendship to Iran, and flood them with cash, workers and ressources to help them devellop their country.

3) (consequence of 2)) The mollahs, and their (now no longer justified) paranoid ravings about the imperialistic west wanting to invade Iran and kill everyone, now appear to be utter tits in the eyes of the majority of the population.

4) A progressive movement quicky emerges, and does not provoke a civil war when it peacefully takes the power from the now gibbering, and obsolete mollahs.

5) I have succesfully created a devellopped, peacefull Iran. Political executions no longer exist.


As opposed to the current course of events, which goes something like this.

1) Send in agents to stir things up.

2) Use the media to gain support against the regime, utilising the deaths of those who are crushed in a conflict you have created against a regime you are forcing to become more ruthless because it knows exactly what you are doing.

3) Now that the tear-eyed public support you, invade or assist in the invasion during which hundreds of thousands are killed.

4) Get all your big corporations invested in "rebuilding" Iran. They will privatise everything for you, while stealing land and ressources from the indigineous people, who sink into an even worse state of poverty.

5) Sit back, reap in the profits, and watch Iran slide into chaos as an even more extreme form of hate for the west grows in the majority of the now impoverished population, which will allow for you to stage the same thing in a neighboring country. Political executions run rampant between the various factions warring for the scraps you have left, but you don't report that because it no longer serves a purpose.



[edit on 29-1-2010 by Ismail]

This thread sucks.
I don't remember who brought out the claims of others deflecting to avoid what? Stating their opinions? But at any rate, it is coming from every angle now.

I'll concede that my opinions are worthless. These guys were not executed for treason, they were executed because the evil muslims in iran suck and America is NUMBER ONE!

reply to post by SLAYER69


So your new tactic is to pretend the questions aren't questions?



Question 1.

How does the fact that Shop Keepers from the Bazar, Middle Class Adults over the age of 40, Military and Police Personel, and the Clergy not siding with the minoirty protestors make this not a revolution?

Question 2.

How does the United States benefit in supporting Mousavi the number one opposition candidate when he as former Iranian President founded Hezbollah in Lebanon and was the architecht of the bombing of the U.S. Marine Barracks in Lebanon the killed over 600 U.S. Marines?

Question 3.

What are the differences between peaceful protestors and violent ones who destory state property and do so with the aide of foreign funding and direction?

They are simple questions. For anyone who cares to answer them. The people who do honestly ask those questions and look for honest answers to them tend to arrive at a completely different conclusion than the one you are promoting.

They are clear questions, and intelligent questions, and questions worth considering if someone is actually going to look for the facts of what's really going on in Iran.

If you can't honestly answer them or discuss them maybe you could honestly answer why you are afraid to honestly answer them or discuss them?

Originally posted by Ismail

2) Extend the hand of friendship to Iran, and flood them with cash, workers and ressources to help them devellop their country.

3) (consequence of 2)) The mollahs, and their (now no longer justified) paranoid ravings about the imperialistic west wanting to invade Iran and kill everyone, now appear to be utter tits in the eyes of the majority of population.

Well #2 and #3 will come into conflict. Understand that power corrupts. The mullahs will see Anything from the west good,bad or indifferent as the signs of an "Imperial" movement against them. IMO.

4) A progressive movement quicky emerges, and does not provoke a civil war when it peacefully takes the power from the now gibbering, and obsolete mollahs.

Again...

Power corrupts.
Good luck with trying to tell them that they are not all that.

5) I have succesfully created a devellopped, peacefull Iran. Political executions no longer exist.

They are not exactly off to a good start for scenario # 5.

As opposed to the current course of events, which goes something like this.

1) Send in agents to stir things up.

I'll agree with that.

2) Use the media to gain support against the regime, utilising the deaths of those who are crushed in a conflict you have created against a regime you are forcing to become more ruthless because it knows exactly what you are doing.

You mean like releasing stories from their own media?
www.presstv.ir...

A senior Iranian cleric and official on Friday warned that inaction about the rioters who gave raise to the unrest that followed the June presidential election would have severe consequences for the country.

Tehran's Interim Friday Prayers Leader Ayatollah Ahmad Jannati, who heads the Guardian Council, urged Judiciary Chief Ayatollah Sadeq Amoli Larijani to firmly deal with “rioters of the recent unrest and in particular the Ashura desecrators.”

"The same way you quickly executed the two Moharebs (those who have waged war on God), stand your ground and take action about the rest of them (rioters)," the Islamic Republic News Agency quoted Ayatollah Jannati as telling Ayatollah Larijani.

"If rioters are not dealt with firmly and strongly," the cleric said, "the situation will become more serious in the future."

3) Now that the tear-eyed public support you, invade or assist in the invasion during which hundreds of thousands are killed.

We've invaded Iran?

4) Get all your big corporations invested in "rebuilding" Iran. They will privatise everything for you, while stealing land and ressources from the indigineous people, who sink into an even worse state of poverty.

Are you giving your geopolitical opinion of what has happened in Iran. I can't seem to find where this has happened. When was this posted on the wire?

5) Sit back, reap in the profits, and watch Iran slide into chaos as an even more extreme form of hate for the west grows in the majority of the now impoverished population, which will allow for you to stage the same thing in a neighboring country. Political executions run rampant between the various factions warring for the scraps you have left, but you don't report that because it no longer serves a purpose.

Thanks for posting an opinion of what may happen.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Guy the elections were rigged; Besides the fact that this topic is about people being hanged in IRAN not the elections of Iran; If you wish we can discuss that in a thread of yours.

ON TOPIC

What do you expect from the Mullahs, Freedom of Speach is not there Strong Point.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hey, thanks for highlighting that part in that article explaining how the Iranian leadership considered the *rioters* to be a threat to their ability to Govern their own country.

That constitutes treason, and Iran being a theocratic society, believes (or at least they voice it) as it is an act of war against God himself.

The rest of all of this discussion is speculative bunk.
Sucks for the dudes being executed, but treason carries a pretty universal punishment... that being death.

Edit for Post Script... You guys ever seen that old 80's movie Over the Top with Sly Stallone?
God I love that movie. AMERICA RULEZZ!



[edit on 29-1-2010 by JayinAR]

Originally posted by poedxsoldiervet
reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler

 

Guy the elections were rigged; Besides the fact that this topic is about people being hanged in IRAN not the elections of Iran; If you wish we can discuss that in a thread of yours.

ON TOPIC

What do you expect from the Mullahs, Freedom of Speach is not there Strong Point.

You must have missed the very misleading headline that it was PROTESTORS hanged.

Protesting the election, the election that you can't prove was rigged and neither can the protestors.

reply to post by poedxsoldiervet


Sir

There are not too many countries that have real election's

In the US , you vote for Dumb or Dumber, .. not rigged.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
How does the fact that Shop Keepers from the Bazar, Middle Class Adults over the age of 40, Military and Police Personel, and the Clergy not siding with the minoirty protestors make this not a revolution?

Answer: Do you have a source for this opinion showing it as being a fact?

How does the United States benefit in supporting Mousavi the number one opposition candidate when he as former Iranian President founded Hezbollah in Lebanon and was the architecht of the bombing of the U.S. Marine Barracks in Lebanon the killed over 600 U.S. Marines?

Answer: Do you have a source stating the Obama administration has come out stating this opinion of yours as a fact? I'll be happy to discuss this when you can provide a source.

What are the differences between peaceful protestors and violent ones who destory state property and do so with the aide of foreign funding and direction?

I don't know there were some people shot and killed during a "Peaceful Protest" in the middle of last year. Have we forgotten about them?

They are simple questions. For anyone who cares to answer them. The people who do honestly ask those questions and look for honest answers to them tend to arrive at a completely different conclusion than the one you are promoting.

Thanks for your opinion.

They are clear questions, and intelligent questions, and questions worth considering if someone is actually going to look for the facts of what's really going on in Iran.

If you can't honestly answer them or discuss them maybe you could honestly answer why you are afraid to honestly answer them or discuss them?

I have, now can we discuss the topic at hand?

The Iranian Government executing their own Citizens in the name of God.


[edit on 29-1-2010 by SLAYER69]

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Well #2 and #3 will come into conflict. Understand that power corrupts. The mullahs will see Anything from the west good,bad or indifferent as the signs of an "Imperial" movement against them. IMO.

Have we tried this before ? Because we did'nt in Iraq or in Afghanistan, and we know what happened, and is still happening there. It's hell. Although there are some people who have the audacity to say it isn't worse than when we went in.

So this would not work, "in your opinion" ? You prefer solution number 2 ? Well, it's your lucky day, because that's exactly what is going to happen. Like it did in Afghanistan, Iraq, Bolivia, Venzuela, Salvador, Peru, Panama, Ecuador, etc etc etc....

reply to post by Ismail


Very well said.

Why is it we are constantly hearing about Iran, and not from any other of the handfuls of countries in the region? It's as if everything else is a blip on the news..

Why so much attention on Iran now?

To answer these questions, I had to dig deep, and I spent many months researching into this phenomena and after these many moons I was able to fully articulate and in this case, illustrate my response:




As can be clearly seen in the detailed map above, the US is currently living very close to Iran. So obviously, people in Iran are being directly effected by awesome democracy. They want this democracy because it is so close, they can taste it. Can you blame them? Of course there is no Imperial movement, we are merely trying promote a constant presence of peace and prosperity as their neighbors. Silly Iranians.

Clearly we should be concerned about 2 people being executed, not anything else, because the US is pure and has no influence or desire to intervene militarily or covertly, in Iran. That's just a deflection...



[edit on 29-1-2010 by SyphonX]