I beg of you read this. Stop the drama...

We need to enstill a sense of global or national community in people, but that isn't how it works in the US. So how do you reach so many people on an individual and personal level?

Originally posted by Draves
We give them power. We can take it away. It isn’t as simple as voting. It requires more work on our part (god forbid I just want to gossip). When the people of this country become real men and women again, it will be controlled by the people. Until then, you will be treated like children.

It has gone too far. As you can see with Obama, people wanted change and they got a actor who promised them change. But nothing changed. Its not Obama who is calling the shots anymore. NO president does.

I know that violence feeds violence. But I also know that being peaceful allows these things to continue. All it takes for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing. Guys like WeAreChange are doing something peaceful, but are they changing the world?

I doubt it. But I have no answers. The people cant really do anything. Replace the government, do whatever you want, and nothing will change anyway.


[edit on 9-11-2009 by Copernicus]

Draves, you sound like Jesus, dude!
Lets all be nice to each other and everything will be groovey!

It a lovely sentiment, but you don't actually say how you are going to make it happen, how 'we' can make it happen?
And what exactly are you rebelling against?

Ghandi was rebelling against an oppressive regime enforced by a foreign power - i.e. the British, and he had a specific goal - independence.
Do you have a specific goal, other than 'be excellent to one another'?
Also, Ghandi followed and required a doctrine of passive resistance, totally non-violent, non co-operation.
You think that's possible in a country that reportedly has more guns than citizens?
Really?

I like your attitude, I really do, and I wish the world was full of people who think and feel the way you do, but unfortunately, it isnt.

My own ambition is to live somewhere as far away from dense populations, governments and interference as possible, and I guess thats going to be a tall order these days to, but I reckon its the best I can hope for.

Good luck with the revolution, though.

At least people like Draves can say they tried. They contributed because something big WILL happen. It may not end with us, but it will happen. I don't know if it will be violent or non-violent. We can all hope for the latter and the more people that contribute to this doctrine, the more hope there is that this is the path that will be followed in the future.

Originally posted by tinker_jen
At least people like Draves can say they tried. They contributed because something big WILL happen. It may not end with us, but it will happen. I don't know if it will be violent or non-violent. We can all hope for the latter and the more people that contribute to this doctrine, the more hope there is that this is the path that will be followed in the future.

Its always violent, pretty much, because TPTB are never keen to hand over control, and of course after the struggle to wrest power from them is over, the new PTB don't want to relinquish control either.

I agree that a change will come, for better or worse, but I don't see how voicing idealism is 'trying' to do anything, its just an analysis, an observation on what is, unfortunately, human nature, and an appeal for us all to act contrary to it. If Draves runs for office, Id vote for him, give him a go - then I could say he has tried.

I realise that I sound horribly cynical, but I honestly believe that change always involves violence, and the danger is that you become what you have deposed. You only have to look at the precedents set by history to understand this (Frence revolution, russian, all the middle and south american countries, africa, the USA, on, and on).

No, we are not a very nice species, on the whole, we are still responding to the stimuli of the evolutionary process, and I just hope we can survive, as a race, long enough to leave the 'Beast' behind and find some kind of enlightenment.

reply to post by Draves

When asking people to give up their current behavior the trick is one of reward. One of incentive. That's the difficult part.

You're saying that in ending the drama all this chaos would stop.

But is that even the reward that should be held up to motivate the effort to change our ways? Consider that half the people that come to this message board do so to look for explosive, world-ending news. So it's a difficult question to be sure. Who knows? Maybe through thoughtful, deliberate discussion it's a question that we might explore and come to terms with.

As best I see it the real reason we need to cut the crap is because a world of plenty is sitting right around the corner and if we don't knock it off we may blow our chance.

Originally posted by johnny2127
reply to post by Draves

 

I find it very telling that neither you or anyone that agrees with you will address the issues I have brought up why this cannot work in the US, and why it was possible in India at that time. Faced with facts, you just stay silent and pretend like nothing was brought to your attention.

Sorry, your wish of being America's Gandhi will not come true...

The reason why no one address your issues is because they are simply 'your issues'. A revolution of thought can and will occur, you're going down a path of destruction because you want to, you want to see people dieing you love the cheap thrill of it, face it. You've been programmed to love violence.

10101001101

and that's that

reply to post by Draves


We'll go ahead and assume that you are correct about methodology. Non-violent means have and can move empires, so there is no reason other than knee-jerk cynicism to doubt that it can do it again.

Here's the trick. Go ahead and try to get just the commenters on this thread to unanimously agree on a single demand for which they are willing to jeopardize their livelihood. You want to end income tax? You and maybe 30% of the population. There is no issue where a clear, simple course of action is unanimously agreed upon.

Even once you have a consensus on ends, you have a whole new debate on means. Think of the scene in Monty Python's Life of Brian featuring the People's Liberation Front of Judea et al. Everyone's got a specific agenda and anyone who does not drink the same brand of kool-aid is The Enemy!

Trust me, it's not just the immature need for Drama. It is Dogmatic Absolutism, an intellectual fallacy branded on our society by centuries of Judeo-Christian BS.

I agree that it would be difficult to even get a majority to go for the same action would be difficult, especially we live in such an individualistic culture, but it's not impossible. There has to be a way and while I don't have a clear idea as to how to band people together for the good of our society, I am sure it is going to happen. We can't keep going down the road we are on... of course, TPTB won't want to give up control. The elite always want to stay the elite, but we won't be walked on forever.

Originally posted by LiveForever8
reply to post by Draves

 

Would they do it again?

Need i list all of the pointless wars we have been involved in since WW2?

I think you are being naive. There would be bloodshed, no doubt, if a major change was to happen. Its inevitable.

Here is how i see it:

Awareness

"None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free."

Make the masses aware.

Exposure

Once awareness has been achieved, we must expose. Media. Banking. Politics. Etc etc......

They are corrupt, lets prove it.

That is just the beginning.

You are getting way ahead of yourself at the moment.

Peace.

I like what you have said. This is a start.

I have been following this post and all I have to say is thank you to everyone.

Look at what we are doing. We are all coming together a voicing our opinions, and although we may have different ideas...

...we all agree on one thing; THAT WE NEED CHANGE.

The time will come; I agree with some people on here that it may be too early right now.

But the time is coming and it is coming soon. Within the next few years we will see something happen.

We have to keep thinking and develop our ideas for change and eventually it will happen.

This is great, everyone should be proud of themselves. I love how we are all pushing ourselves.

We are the future. We'll be the change.

Peace.

Draves has been effectively silenced for 72 hours due because of requesting flags. All I have to say is when do words because weapons?

I know Draves personally... he was banned for three days. He is still reading the thread. He'll be back.

may we all continue to discuss in his absence.

drama is favoured by teenagers who are unformed, and women, who are bored with their mundane lives, and of course men, who haven't developed their minds properly.

if you want to fix something. fix yourself. lead by example and have hope that others will also fix themselves.

no one has any place in trying to fix someone else without being asked to do so.

leave the drama to the storytellers. That's where it belongs.

Dumb
Retards
Aagainst
Meaningul
Actions

It is the best I could do...no body better get politically correct with me either

In theory this sounds well and good. If we follow Gandhi, with passive resistance, the government will have to acceed to our will.
When we were kids one of our favorite games was to discuss what would have happened if Hitler had won WWII. The first answer of course that we probably would all be dead. But it always would come up some where that if Gandhi had been up against Hitler rather than the British he would have gotten nowhere. Because Hitler didn't mind killing people, and he didn't much care what people thought about it. Now after all these years we find that #1 the Nazis didn't lose the war, they just shifted their base to the US, and guess who we are fighting? #2 that Hitler was only a front for even more evil people pushing their evil agenda. What people? Guess. Even with almost 2 generations past, we are up against maybe not the exact same people, but mean people with the same hideous agenda. Passive resistance will get us right where they want us. At their mercy, and they haven't got any.
Another argument
In 1970 I was living in a country in which a political leader got enough people behind him to declare a holiday and all work stopped. He said to hang out flags, and everybody hung out flags. Everybody was behind him and very enthusiastic. The leader was Sheik Mujibur Rahman in East Pakistan. He had just won the majority in the National Assembly election which made him the Prime Minister of the entire country. just from the votes of this particular wing. Everybody did what he said to do. Worked stopped when he said. The military dictator pretended to negotiate with him to hand him over part, not all of the power, but just to delay while he moved troops in and slaughtered THREE MILLION PEOPLE.. Eleven million people fled the country into India (in a country of 70 million). Aparently judging from the American media's complete black-hole coverage he had the backing of the US and probably the expert advice of the CIA.These people eventually got their country back because of the courage and stuborness of Indira Gandhi, but we don't have any place to run to. If we give up to these murders (same ones), we will be wiped out.

We need to be careful what we do.We don't want to give them the excuse they want to open fire on us. They have a lot of powerful weapons and have enough people hoodwinked to go along with them. If enough Americans wake up to what is going on of course they won't be able to do anything. But people want to give them the benefit of the doubt. These are Nazis for pete's sake.
The thing we need to do is to pry open all of the things that they have closed. Why is it ok to maintain Fema camps when our prisons are overcrowded. Why is Obama spending money in the trillions like there is no tomorrow. We need to pretend that everything is "normal" and we still have a democratic republic with a Constitution. We need to expose the harm in those Vaccines. the poisons in the Chemtrails. the fallicy in the behavior of the FED. We need to end the "endless" WAR that was designed to bankrupt us.and we need to allow the soldiers who want to expose the "unAmerican" nature of the war to do so.
We need to stand up to them in a calm but forceful way and let them know in no uncertain terms that the American people won't stand for any more of this. The Constitution is to be upheld. The foreign troops are to be sent away. NOW, The nonsense about a North America Union is treason. Somebody needs to say so.Our politicians are fighting a healthcare take over that will land us in fascism, they have been clear about that.but we don't have a news media available to get the word out that everybody needs to hear. This abomination of a news media must be denounced in no uncertain terms. They lost their legitimacy. I know I am all over the place. Somebody who is better organized then me should be writing this. People need to be saying these things.

[edit on 9-11-2009 by m khan]

[edit on 9-11-2009 by m khan]

About those treasonout North America Union armpatches. If the soldiers are wearing them because they think they are cute, that is one thing. Some soldiers like to wear Oathkeeper armpatches and Three percent armpatches and are allowed to. But if somebody is ordering them to wear those treasonous NAU patches then they should be allowed to take them off.It is a slap in the face to every citizen of the United States of America and is treason.

Originally posted by djusdjus
drama is favoured by teenagers who are unformed, and women, who are bored with their mundane lives, and of course men, who haven't developed their minds properly.

if you want to fix something. fix yourself. lead by example and have hope that others will also fix themselves.

no one has any place in trying to fix someone else without being asked to do so.

leave the drama to the storytellers. That's where it belongs.

Many good responses here, and yes we all must "fix" ourselves and our perception or reality, whatever you want to call it. BUT... there are laws, NOT statutes, ordinances, regulations, BUT LAWS. They protect us IF we KNOW how to understand them and use them. We must use them to our advantage. WE must TAKE back what is rightfully ours and WE can do it in a peaceful manner.

Where it all went wrong was the comfort zone, people got so accustomed to the "good life", television, traveling, atari/nintendo, music, ball sports and the like, ALL distractions from reality. This was done on purpose to keep us slaves from learning the truth and see it coming. There once was a time when people paid attention to what went on in their city, and the state, not any more. And this is where it got away from us.

So, if you look into taking back your "STRAWMAN", and what is involved in the process, you will see HOW to take advantage of those laws and use them as they were meant to be used. 18 USC 241, 242 and so on.

abundanthope.net...

There would be no more foreclosure and the mortgage fraud would end. Your house would be just that, YOUR house. Many, many people have written articles on this subject, why do not more people look into it? They just post nonsense here and no solution. This is a solution.

I can not emphasize it enough, pay attention to the actual LAW. "Thou shalt NEVER infringe on anothers property rights, life, liberty or individual rights, EVER!" That is the ONLY common law there is, everything else comes from that. Statutes are not enfocreable without an "enforcement clause" or "enforcement regulation" which there is NONE. i.e. the motor vehicle code in your state.

Sanchoearlyjones posted many times, JUST SAY NO. It's that simple.

Educate yourself!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by daddio

Originally posted by djusdjus
drama is favoured by teenagers who are unformed, and women, who are bored with their mundane lives, and of course men, who haven't developed their minds properly.

if you want to fix something. fix yourself. lead by example and have hope that others will also fix themselves.

no one has any place in trying to fix someone else without being asked to do so.

leave the drama to the storytellers. That's where it belongs.

Many good responses here, and yes we all must "fix" ourselves and our perception or reality, whatever you want to call it. BUT... there are laws, NOT statutes, ordinances, regulations, BUT LAWS. They protect us IF we KNOW how to understand them and use them. We must use them to our advantage. WE must TAKE back what is rightfully ours and WE can do it in a peaceful manner.

Where it all went wrong was the comfort zone, people got so accustomed to the "good life", television, traveling, atari/nintendo, music, ball sports and the like, ALL distractions from reality. This was done on purpose to keep us slaves from learning the truth and see it coming. There once was a time when people paid attention to what went on in their city, and the state, not any more. And this is where it got away from us.

So, if you look into taking back your "STRAWMAN", and what is involved in the process, you will see HOW to take advantage of those laws and use them as they were meant to be used. 18 USC 241, 242 and so on.

abundanthope.net...

There would be no more foreclosure and the mortgage fraud would end. Your house would be just that, YOUR house. Many, many people have written articles on this subject, why do not more people look into it? They just post nonsense here and no solution. This is a solution.

I can not emphasize it enough, pay attention to the actual LAW. "Thou shalt NEVER infringe on anothers property rights, life, liberty or individual rights, EVER!" That is the ONLY common law there is, everything else comes from that. Statutes are not enfocreable without an "enforcement clause" or "enforcement regulation" which there is NONE. i.e. the motor vehicle code in your state.

Sanchoearlyjones posted many times, JUST SAY NO. It's that simple.

Educate yourself!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you for educating us. We are all entitled to our opinions, but it is nice having someone that has experience and knowledge there. Some of us are great at generating ideas and others are there to help us, and even others are there to implement them. It's all a start.

Originally posted by m khan
In theory this sounds well and good. If we follow Gandhi, with passive resistance, the government will have to acceed to our will.
When we were kids one of our favorite games was to discuss what would have happened if Hitler had won WWII. The first answer of course that we probably would all be dead. But it always would come up some where that if Gandhi had been up against Hitler rather than the British he would have gotten nowhere. Because Hitler didn't mind killing people, and he didn't much care what people thought about it. Now after all these years we find that #1 the Nazis didn't lose the war, they just shifted their base to the US, and guess who we are fighting? #2 that Hitler was only a front for even more evil people pushing their evil agenda. What people? Guess. Even with almost 2 generations past, we are up against maybe not the exact same people, but mean people with the same hideous agenda. Passive resistance will get us right where they want us. At their mercy, and they haven't got any.

Well said, m khan.

All bets are off when you discover that the "government" you're trying to resist are a bunch of genocidal maniacs who WANT to kill you [who are themselves controlled by demons].