I beg of you read this. Stop the drama...

reply to post by tinker_j

Do you enjoy picking apart people's posts?

Not really. It gets tedious, especially when summary fact checking takes three times longer to do that it takes to express my proposition. But I like opening new lines of dialog and exploring concepts, as well as passing on some of the information that has fascinated me.

I appreciate objective criticism, but doing it isn't really furthering what this discussion was intended for.

Perhaps, but I hope it may inspire you to think in new directions. From there it could lead you to ideas, concepts, philosophies, research, and debates which are new and may change your way of looking at the world.

And isn't that what we're doing here? Discussing ways, especially individual ways, we can make a difference to better the world?

What can WE do?

At this point, I think Gandhi had some fairly good advise. That is to be the change you want to see in the world. Adopt in earnest, and exemplify those traits in yourself that you wish were promoted in others. By example, perhaps you'll inspire their adoption in others.

I would also suggest furthering your education. Regardless of your current academic level, there is always more to learn and understand. Soak up as much knowledge as you can when you can find the time. Provide yourself with as much context and understanding as possible. Exercise your reason, and use it generously. T. Paine referred to reason as the greatest implement against errors of every kind. Try to ensure that the problems you want to see rectified in society really ARE the problems. Anyone who's worked on vehicles can attest to the expense and frustration of insufficient trouble shooting.

Knowledge is power, and it's being given away in our society at levels absolutely unprecedented in human history. Yet only the bare minimum for functionality in society is actively disseminated. It's offered freely, but past high school it won't be spoon fed to you. You must take the active initiative to seek it out and partake of it.

"An Investment in Education always pays the best interest." ~ Benjamin Franklin

A trick that has worked well for me, is to try to make a conscious effort to step beyond my position and opinions to see issues from contrary views to the best of my ability. To listen, to observe, and to the extent I can - without my pre-established moral judgments which that can skewer observations with bias. Try to be objective, even if you must sympathize with the devil. Try to see the issue from all sides. Then step back into my previous position to weigh it against the new information and perceptions I gathered. A trick of debate I picked up off my father, who frequently threw you off guard in a conversation by arguing for positions I knew he opposed.

Zen Master Sent-ts’an expressed it thusly;

"The Perfect Way is only difficult
for those who pick and choose;
Do not like, do not dislike;
all will then be clear.
Make a hairbreadth difference,
and Heaven and Earth are set apart;
If you want the truth to stand clear before you,
never be for or against.
The struggle between "for" and "against"
is the mind's worst disease."

reply to post by Lasheic


Lasheic, for someone who has all the anwsers on peace and wisdom, its amazing how disrespectful you are being with other peoples views on the subject.

All i see when reading your posts is someone looking for others to understand him by ranting about all the anwsers you think you've learned in life. Please stop...

Everyone has good points, everyone comes from different backgrounds... Stop the drama

reply to post by rjmelter

Lasheic, for someone who has all the anwsers on peace and wisdom

I never said that I did.

its amazing how disrespectful you are being with other peoples views on the subject.

And that has any bearing on the points I was trying to make... how?

All i see when reading your posts is someone looking for others to understand him by ranting about all the anwsers you think you've learned in life.

This is ATS. Hi, are you new here or something? The difference is, pretty much everything I've stated can be substantiated in peer review literature. I may not be right, but I'm not just shooting from the hip here and just saying what feels good at the time either.

Everyone has good points, everyone comes from different backgrounds

I never implied the contrary.



So do you actually have any substantial contention to bring up against my posts, aside from my presentation style? How are you going to sit there and tell me to "stop the drama", and yet have absolutely no substance for a rebuke offered aside from "meanie", veiled ad hominem, and grievous misrepresentation of my position.

The world shouldn't have drama but the fact is... us being laid back IS letting them get away with everything. For now drama is the only thing that is going to wake people up I believe. (unfortunatly)

Draves,
Peacefully won't work. On September 12 of this year about 2 million citizens marched on Washington DC about the health care bill. The end result: The bill was passed and signed by Obama.

Now, if 2 million peaceful citizens "fully armed" would have done that, do you think the bill would have been passed?

difference is the march on the whitehouse for the healthcare bill was kinda misguided in my eyes. While their motives were 100% in the right direction, you know trying to say " hey listen to us". It would have been great if people actually read what was in it and what it entailed rather than getting their emotions, feelings,info. spoon fed to them by the same media that has always been covering stuff up and not showing us the real situations or real facts. Like its ridiculous how many people i heard bug out when they the gov. was going to try and pay/ cover for college which is one of the leading causes of debt (student loans).Im sure theres probably some stipulations, but hey its progress.
It's like the bill was an improvement no matter how big or small its a step in the right direction i only wish Obama decided to not try and rationalize his ideal Healthcare plan with the 2 faces of the same evil ( rep. dem.) and did his original plan, but then you know another JFK would inevitably happen can't have us doing the right thing and making them lose more money now can they :/, but yea sorry diverted away from the topic.


Peace can bring about change we are just caught into the drama of life, the videos and movies that instill in us that only violence can bring about change, I REFUSE to believe we can't handle things in a civilized manner, like actually READ into the people you vote for not just vote for the president then whoever else has a (D) by their name, look into their goals ambitions for yourself, lets vote this people out, we all gotta get the ball rolling, If we re-volt and start the next civil war ( which seems inevitable whether its just a fated cycle of life or a masterminded plan, or just plain old random occurrence) I feel it would just help the ones who control the gov, fed reserve,( the Puppet masters if you will). clear their tracks and whatnot, just food for thought.

Originally posted by Oxygen56
The world shouldn't have drama but the fact is... us being laid back IS letting them get away with everything. For now drama is the only thing that is going to wake people up I believe. (unfortunatly)

I don't think it is about laying back. I think he meant being passive aggressive in our approaches. Don't let anger overcome when we protest. As for protesting in general, do something more constructive than just standing around and yelling.

Just talking will not work, because no one will listen to us at this point. It might take a little more on our parts. Once we did enough however, they would listen. Violence may be necessary, but being passive aggressive should work too. Or something like that...