None of you have ever seen an extraterrestrial object.

Originally posted by Doc Velocity
If we humans had ever developed such technology, we wouldn't be using it to dick around with a handful of stupid super-secret flying saucers. If we had defeated inertia and neutralized gravity, we wouldn't be using petroleum for fuel anymore, we wouldn't need rocket technology, we wouldn't need most of our current technology.

What if the technology is still prohibitively expensive ?

What if the technology opens up fields of science which make fission bombs look like M-80s ?

You can't tell your friends without also telling your enemies. I'm sure the powers that be would rather we keep running on oil and not let field propulsion and whatever other breakthroughs they've made inside DUMBs leak out to China or Russia.

With a lot of people carrying cameras and cell phones nowadays, all we get are more blurry pictures of whatever those people think they are seeing. Vision is deceptive at short distances when you can't distinguish what you're seeing, at 1 mile up in the sky what a person see can be whatever, especially with people unfamiliar with natural phenomenons and any flying devices human beings use for measurements of all kind and experimental air planes or drones.

There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that crafts from alien origin are visiting us, not one. Not even a good quality picture. Not even a good quality footage by commercial tv crews. There is nothing.

In the era we live now, if you're rich enough, you can book a spaceflight and go see for yourself if there are saucers going around the blue planet. A few have done it already. Or maybe they will hide from you cos you aren't part of the cover up, lol.

Anyways,
Without actual proof, like alien objects given to us, pictures of them, Commercials tv like footages, everything remain hearsay and blurry pictures.

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that crafts from alien origin are visiting us, not one. Not even a good quality picture. Not even a good quality footage by commercial tv crews. There is nothing.

That statement is of personal opinion, let's keep those qualified please. I've found several images that satisfy my personal criteria as 'authentic', some of these images I've posted analysis on at this very website (follow my sig for relevant data). Scientists (like Dr. Bruce Macabee for example) have come to similar conclusions, with independent studies.

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
In the era we live now, if you're rich enough, you can book a spaceflight and go see for yourself if there are saucers going around the blue planet. A few have done it already. Or maybe they will hide from you cos you aren't part of the cover up, lol.

As for this point, I think you must be referring to Virgin Galactic. Their website doesn't list any past flights as of August 21, 2009 that carried passengers into space, or even low earth orbit. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. NASA's shuttle fleet is not fit for passenger flights, and the Soyuz won't last much longer than the US model. That pretty much encompasses the public spaceflight sector. If you've got your own private spaceship, please let me know. I'll book a flight immediately.

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
Anyways,
Without actual proof, like alien objects given to us, pictures of them, Commercials tv like footages, everything remain hearsay and blurry pictures.

Darn, I guess you're right. You know what, I'm going to stop believing in Alpha Centauri and Proxima Centauri this very instant! All I've got is heresay and blurry pictures, so they must not really exist. Heck pick your favorite star out there, or Pulsar, or even Binary System guys and gals, guess what.... Conan the Usurper has just proven that they're all just figments of your imagination! LOL

Please, believers and skeptics alike, please stop with the 'Actual Proof' comparisons, it's a straw-man argument. There is no 'Actual Proof' for anything! There is Scientific Evidence obtained from direct observation of the Universe. And that (in regards to Extra-Terrestrial Craft) DOES exist aplenty. There is an interesting link in my signature line, for those who would like to analyze some of that evidence personally.

-WFA

Originally posted by Mak Manto
But where is the evidence of this "UFO species!"

As I stated earlier, and as I've maintained for over three decades, this is my opinion. The evidence that I outlined earlier is the same "evidence" that we have for the UFO phenomenon in general. My position is that, given the thousands of photographs and military sightings and anecdotal descriptions provided by witnesses, there is still no evidence that these things are "extraterrestrial" in origin. No proof whatsoever. Given that there is no proof of extraterrestrial origin, I conclude that UFOs are of terrestrial origin.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Is there any pictures of them?

Oh, yes, there are thousands of photographs, films and videos of UFOs cavorting in Earth's atmosphere. That much is undeniable. Many of them are perfectly legitimate images captured by perfectly sane and reputable individuals, including scientists, commercial pilots, law enforcement and military officials. The phenomenon is real, and the objects do appear to be responsive to our pathetic efforts to chase them — this is a pretty solid indicator that the things are at least aware of us. Ask any of the reputable witnesses and they will readily tell you that these UFOs do appear to operate under some sort of intelligent guidance or control.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
What do they look like?

Well, the consensus is, as I've already mentioned, that "they" are hominids, like us. Remarkably like us. Heads, eyes, noses, mouths, necks, torsos, articulated arms, legs, hands, feet, fingers, etc. They are also bipedal, according to virtually every description, which is an astounding coincidence — as far as we know, bipedal posture is an extremely rare evolutionary occurrence in the animal world. Perhaps "they" are another species of hominids that exited our family tree hundreds of thousands of years ago. Again, this is pure speculation, but entirely based on the "evidence" on hand.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
What do they eat?

Who knows? Can you tell me, in detail, the diet of a species that Science has yet to discover and study? In this year alone, we've seen the Scientific discovery of nearly 400 hitherto unkown species worldwide. Biologists speculate that there are probably thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, or even millions of species yet to be discovered on planet Earth. It's beyond arrogance to argue that we have discovered and catalogued every species in the world. In a very real sense, we have barely scratched the surface.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
Do they have a form of government, community, anything? Are they peaceful or hostile?

Again, who knows? We can't even catch up with the things, nevermind capture them. Even if we could somehow sit down to interview them, we probably couldn't grasp anything of their social behavior, or if they even have any social behavior. Perhaps a human attempting to interview "one of them" could be likened to a chimpanzee attempting to interview a modern human. There's just no intellectual common ground for meaningful exchange of information.


— Doc Velocity






[edit on 8/21/2009 by Doc Velocity]

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar

As for this point, I think you must be referring to Virgin Galactic. Their website doesn't list any past flights as of August 21, 2009 that carried passengers into space, or even low earth orbit. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. NASA's shuttle fleet is not fit for passenger flights, and the Soyuz won't last much longer than the US model. That pretty much encompasses the public spaceflight sector. If you've got your own private spaceship, please let me know. I'll book a flight immediately.

err i guess you are unaware that space tourism do exist and so far at least 6 persons i'm aware of went to the space station.

1- Dennis Tito
2- Mark Shuttleworth
3- Gregory Olsen
4- Anousheh Ansari
5- Charles Simonyi
6- Richard Garriott

10- WitnessFromAfar -WFA who will book his flight immediately

Darn, I guess you're right. You know what, I'm going to stop believing in Alpha Centauri and Proxima Centauri this very instant! All I've got is heresay and blurry pictures, so they must not really exist. Heck pick your favorite star out there, or Pulsar, or even Binary System guys and gals, guess what.... Conan the Usurper has just proven that they're all just figments of your imagination! LOL

)

-WFA

Weirdo, those pictures of Alpha Centauri are perfectly clear, and can be taken day after day anytime you want.

The only thing i will give the believers is, among the billion of galaxies and stars out there, there has to be other intelligent life forms. But nothing prove so far they were able to come here and tried to communicate with us in any kind of ways.

reply to post by Doc Velocity


Your theory is sound, as far as my opinion goes
You are correct that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

I would humbly submit, however, that both the EBE and the Terrestrial Hypothesis are both valid solutions to the current mystery, and that both explanations fit within the bounds dictated by observable evidence.

I think that when a lot of people say "Extra-Terrestrial" they forget that Terra is the root word, and what they mean to say is 'Intelligent Life Form That Is Not Human'. Let's call that 'ILFNH', for the sake of easy discussion...

Using 'ILFNH' as the comparison term, our theories are identical.

Using 'ET' as the comparison term divides our theories, by hypothetical origin point.

While I personally find it more likely that an advanced spacefaring civilization would come from outside the Earth (due to my lack of direct observation of such a species here on Earth) I certainly could not preclude your theory being correct.

Very interesting Doc, I think I'm going to start changing my wording, to encompass your theory. We need a better term than 'ILFNH' LOL!!! But I guess that's a start!

Thanks for making me think

-WFA

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar

As for this point, I think you must be referring to Virgin Galactic. Their website doesn't list any past flights as of August 21, 2009 that carried passengers into space, or even low earth orbit. Let's not get ahead of ourselves here. NASA's shuttle fleet is not fit for passenger flights, and the Soyuz won't last much longer than the US model. That pretty much encompasses the public spaceflight sector. If you've got your own private spaceship, please let me know. I'll book a flight immediately.

err i guess you are unaware that space tourism do exist and so far at least 6 persons i'm aware of went to the space station.

1- Dennis Tito
2- Mark Shuttleworth
3- Gregory Olsen
4- Anousheh Ansari
5- Charles Simonyi
6- Richard Garriott

I'd hardly call those 'average citizens' LOL.

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
10- WitnessFromAfar -WFA who will book his flight immediately

LOLOLOL Not on a NASA Shuttle! Those things have this tendency to explode

Darn, I guess you're right. You know what, I'm going to stop believing in Alpha Centauri and Proxima Centauri this very instant! All I've got is heresay and blurry pictures, so they must not really exist. Heck pick your favorite star out there, or Pulsar, or even Binary System guys and gals, guess what.... Conan the Usurper has just proven that they're all just figments of your imagination! LOL

)

-WFA

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
Weirdo, those pictures of Alpha Centauri are perfectly clear, and can be taken day after day anytime you want.

You must have one heck on an amazing telescope. For me all I see is blurry points of light in the sky. By YOUR logic, that's not enough to on.

By the by, sarcasm is defined at Dictionary.com

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
The only thing i will give the believers is, among the billion of galaxies and stars out there, there has to be other intelligent life forms. But nothing prove so far they were able to come here and tried to communicate with us in any kind of ways.

Unless of course you're aware of the Battle of Los Angeles, the Betty and Barney Hill Story, etc.

You know, if you're really unaware of all of these cases, I don't mean to be offensive, but you really should give them a read at least before declaring that they don't exist!

Check out Gazrok's amazing sticky links in the Aliens/UFOs mainpage at ATS, you don't have to take my word for it!

-WFA

reply to post by aceace


I'm very poor compared to the rich but I've had my own experiences with the UFU/alien issue.

I trust my own instincts and objectivity more then what anybody else could tell or show me.

Alien artefacts? Well, I consider 98% pure Silicon (Silicium) grains as alien since this hydrocarbon compound is found nowhere on Earth in this purity.

www.dcca.nl...

was send to Dr. Levengood. The report shows that it is silicium. It was very pure, and if man decided to make it, it would cost millions of dollars. It was also made clear by the BLT team that the white powder results from friction temperature of 3000 degrees Celsius

Alien enough?

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar


LOLOLOL Not on a NASA Shuttle! Those things have this tendency to explode

My point was, if you're rich enough you can visit the space station within your lifetime and see for yourself if saucers are going around the blue planet.

You must have one heck on an amazing telescope. For me all I see is blurry points of light in the sky. By YOUR logic, that's not enough to on.

I don't, but a few scientists do. They aren't blurry points by the way, they are suns.

Anyways,
if you believe in evasive alien spacecrafts, that come to say hi in a blimp and next thing you know they're gone... go ahead. There's no point in that for me.

Originally posted by Schaden
What if [anti-gravity, zero-inertia] technology is still prohibitively expensive ? What if the technology opens up fields of science which make fission bombs look like M-80s ? You can't tell your friends without also telling your enemies. I'm sure the powers that be would rather we keep running on oil and not let field propulsion and whatever other breakthroughs they've made inside DUMBs leak out to China or Russia.

If there's one thing we know about Top Secret Technology, it's that it never stays secret for very long.

For example, our godawful SUPER TOP SECRET hydrogen bomb technology was acquired by the USSR within less than 10 years, thanks to homegrown spies. Much of our super-advanced missile tracking and targeting technology was given away to China by self-serving American politicians in the 1990s. Truth is, our military wouldn't even release the news of stealth technology to the public until it was considered obsolete — by the time we learned about stealth bombers and fighters, the things had already been in service for over ten years.

Notice we keep hitting that ten year number, which I think is just about the maximum length of time our government & military can keep even their greatest secrets in the closet.

So, if our military is responsible for UFOs and has perfected anti-grav, zero-inertia technology, then they did it back in the 1940s or 1950s... Which would suggest they've successfully kept it a secret for over 50 years.

And I find that highly unlikely.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar


LOLOLOL Not on a NASA Shuttle! Those things have this tendency to explode

My point was, if you're rich enough you can visit the space station within your lifetime and see for yourself if saucers are going around the blue planet.

Actually, NASA has ordered the ISS decommissioned in 2016, so in reality I've got about a 7 year window, and in that time I seriously doubt there will be a replacement for the Shuttle Fleet. That leaves about 1% chance of it ever happening, not just for me, but for ANY average citizen.

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper

You must have one heck on an amazing telescope. For me all I see is blurry points of light in the sky. By YOUR logic, that's not enough to on.

I don't, but a few scientists do. They aren't blurry points by the way, they are suns.

Obviously sarcasm is lost on you, I'll put it more clearly:
Of course they are suns. But by YOUR logic, until I hold a piece of one of those suns in my hand, and can pass it around to other average people here on Earth to independently verify that I'm holding a piece of a sun in my hand, then it doesn't exist.

See how faulty that logic is?
Thus the employment of sarcasm to better illustrate your error.

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
Anyways,
if you believe in evasive alien spacecrafts, that come to say hi in a blimp and next thing you know they're gone... go ahead. There's no point in that for me.

With respect Sir/Madam, I don't 'believe' much of anything. I have however formed several Hypotheses that fit the observable scientific evidence.

At ATS, supplying scientific evidence to support ones point is encouraged. There is a link in my sig line for just that purpose. I do hope you can find the time to look into that case, and the enormous amount of evidence collected and analyzed there. It would likely help you to understand the basis for my Hypothesis.

-WFA

-WFA

unlikely doesn't mean it's not true.

And besides... out of the billions of stars out there, it is highly unlikely that there isn't other lifeforms.
[edit on 21-8-2009 by fgeorge1980]

[edit on 21-8-2009 by fgeorge1980]

PS

Dr.William C. Levengood is a Biophysicist who works for Pinelandia Biophysics Laboratory

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

Notice we keep hitting that ten year number, which I think is just about the maximum length of time our government & military can keep even their greatest secrets in the closet.

I agree with you.
which means that in the 0-2000 era;

1- There is no recovered alien spacecrafts or alien bodies hidden anywhere
2- No alien technology developed from it either
3- No secret documents about aliens
4- No secret meeting with aliens
5- no genuine pictures of alien crafts and technologies

etc.

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar

Obviously sarcasm is lost on you, I'll put it more clearly:
Of course they are suns. But by YOUR logic, until I hold a piece of one of those suns in my hand, and can pass it around to other average people here on Earth to independently verify that I'm holding a piece of a sun in my hand, then it doesn't exist.

See how faulty that logic is?
Thus the employment of sarcasm to better illustrate your error.

I wasn't using sarcasm this time. It seems like you didn't know they were stars. Plain clear pictures of star systems is physical evidence good enough for me, besides they are observable anytime we want.

With respect Sir/Madam, I don't 'believe' much of anything. I have however formed several Hypotheses that fit the observable scientific evidence.

At ATS, supplying scientific evidence to support ones point is encouraged.

Where are your observable scientific evidence of alien activities?

for something to be deemed scientific evidence, you have to get a community of scientists who agree on a phenomenon. They have studied it and were able to come to the same conclusion.

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
I agree with you. which means that in the 0-2000 era;

1- There is no recovered alien spacecrafts or alien bodies hidden anywhere
2- No alien technology developed from it either
3- No secret documents about aliens
4- No secret meeting with aliens
5- no genuine pictures of alien crafts and technologies

Frankly, no, I don't think the so-called Roswell Incident had anything to do with a crashed "alien" craft. More likely it was a bit of extraneous debris from the MOGUL project — but I do think our military used UFO hoaxes as cover for legitimate top-secret projects. In other words, our military fanned the flames of UFO conspiracy theory without giving a thought to the long-term repercussions.

Today a large portion of our population believes in UFOs because the military toyed with the story back in the 40s and 50s and 60s — remember the ambiguous USAF line: "we don't think UFOs pose a threat to our national security" — and a large portion of the population believes our military is now hiding UFO-related secrets, even though they probably are not.

When I see USAF spokesmen get up before an audience and give these dry, ham-handed explanations for UFOs, I tend to believe the spokesmen. Those clowns wouldn't know how to capture or back-engineer a UFO if their lives depended on it. They have plausible deniability, as far as I'm concerned.

So, no, no "alien artifacts," no secret collaboration between Earth governments and alien civilizations, none of that.

However, on the points regarding "secret UFO documents" and "genuine photographs," I'm sure that those items exist in abundance. Even though U.S. intelligence used UFO stories as a cover for their black ops, I'm fairly certain that they did mount a legitimate effort to research the UFO phenomenon at one time — and maybe they still are. But when you request all of the government's declassified paperwork on UFOs (through the Freedom of Information Act), you may be surprised and disappointed to find about 30% of those documents "blacked out" for confidentiality purposes.

Now, why, if there's nothing to it, would the government black out so much declassified info? Obviously, there's a lot in there that the general public does not "need to know"... But, c'mon, it was all a hoax, right? Right?

No, it wasn't all a hoax. Much of what the government researched turned out to be scientifically unexplainable, and the government will never admit that it spent years and millions of dollars futilely researching an unexplainable phenomenon. They just don't admit things like that.

Cheaper to just black it out and hope it goes away.

As for "genuine photographs," I have no doubt that a great many UFO photos out there are genuine photos of genuine UFOs. Not "extraterrestrial" UFOs, but those of the terrestrial variety. Too many scientists, pilots, police officers, military personnel and others with solid powers of observation and reputations have snapped photos of the things, and I am convinced by their reportage that they saw something truly unexplainable.

These are not "secret" photos, by any stretch, but they are lumped together with hoax photos, photos of meteorological phenomena and misidentified objects.

"Buried in plain sight" is what I call such evidence. No government coverups necessary.

— Doc Velocity

Originally posted by Doc Velocity

First of all your whole theory could fit in, if there was a need for a theory to explain sightings of unidentified flying objects. As far as i'm concerned, everything falls into the identifiable or so. It's just that most people 99,9%, don't know what they are seeing. I'm serious here, most people have no clue what a weather balloon looks like, even less natural phenomenon like lightning fireballs, st elmo's fire and yes unknown ones.

But there is more, if you go back in time, thru history and paleontology, we find bones and remains of dinosaurs that lived millions of years ago, we find remains of early men and apes etc.

Where are the alien remains thru several hundred thousand years of life?
I could agree with you that they could be much more advanced than we are but what his their ancestor? where is their past civilizations? no matter how you look at it, they need to have a history

you see, anyone could invoke parallel, multiverse dimensions that beings come in and out of them etc. Really. It's all hypothetical, and like i said, there is no need to explain anything not happening.

As for "genuine photographs," I have no doubt that a great many UFO photos out there are genuine photos of genuine UFOs. Not "extraterrestrial" UFOs, but those of the terrestrial variety. Too many scientists, pilots, police officers, military personnel and others with solid powers of observation and reputations have snapped photos of the things, and I am convinced by their reportage that they saw something truly unexplainable.

really.
too many scientists:
show me their pictures -->
too many military personnel:
show me their pictures -->

All "alien" spacecrafts pictures are fake or mistaken for something else.
It's amazing the number of people who'd fake a flying saucer discs if simply they knew how to do it. The motive behind faking pictures varies from an individual to another but mostly it's for fame, money, no life loser, boredom etc.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Conan The Usurper]

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
I wasn't using sarcasm this time. It seems like you didn't know they were stars. Plain clear pictures of star systems is physical evidence good enough for me, besides they are observable anytime we want.

You really thought that I didn't know they were stars? I'm pretty sure that I described two of them earlier by name (Proxima and Alpha Centauri)...

Really? You honestly thought that I didn't know what stars were? This is beginning to strain credibility...

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
Where are your observable scientific evidence of alien activities?

I'm pretty sure that I've directed you to the appropriate thread a few times now. The link is set up for you in my signature line. All you have to do is click and read...

I even added the link to Jkrog's wonderful compilation of evidence in my sig, to help steer you towards some of the evidence that perhaps you have yet to come across. Here's a direct link to the BOLA thread.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

After directly posting evidence for you, I really would prefer if you not continue to ask for something that's now been clearly given. Let's please start debating the evidence on topic. Pick a case from Jkrog's list if you don't like mine...

Originally posted by Conan The Usurper
for something to be deemed scientific evidence, you have to get a community of scientists who agree on a phenomenon. They have studied it and were able to come to the same conclusion.

Actually that statement is factually inaccurate. In reality, in the Scientific community, for something to be deemed scientific evidence it must be tested using the Scientific Method, and still fit with the observable evidence.
That's pretty much it, if it fits that criteria, it's called Scientific Evidence.

This is why there are competing theories on String Theory at the moment. Who knows which one is right? Who knows if ANY of them are? Certainly a concensus of humans (a majority) does NOT the truth make... (in non-shakespearian terminology, Mob Rule does not dominate in pure science). All theories have competition. Heck, there are a lot of people out there (even today) who believe that Evolution is false, but that belief doesn't make them right, and neither do the numbers they gather in.

-WFA

[edit on 21-8-2009 by WitnessFromAfar]

[edit on 21-8-2009 by WitnessFromAfar]

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar

I agree that what pertains to new theories is open for debates for many years before it is settled.

But as far as "aliens" are concerned, there is no scientific debate about them.
Therefore, there is no scientific evidence debated or not about aliens.

(not talking about illegal aliens from Mexico here)

And about your link, i've checked your L.A. battle. Nothing extraordinary there. All i see are lights bouncing off a cloud and the night sky being shelled off with AA fires. If you remove all the stories and hear say and just look at the video, what's so intriguing about it ?

If that is the kind of evidence you have to offer, i prefer not to watch the others.

[edit on 21-8-2009 by Conan The Usurper]

We are 9 pages deep in this and not one single person has shown one single proof of evidence. Hearsay is not evidence, will not hold up in a trial. "My brothers cousin saw a spaceship is not good enough anymore" If we are being visited, The news channels of the day in the 40's and 50's would have covered this. There was no control like there is today. If there was video from that era. It would have found it's way to youtube. Nothing yet! Think about the "we never went to the moon" theories. On google moon you can see artifacts left by the US on some of it's trips. Apparently we went there. Some of you have quite the imagination.