None of you have ever seen an extraterrestrial object.

images.google.com...

The Nazi's were building round aircraft in the 1940's

reply to post by aceace


There is no strong evidence the NAZIs had ANYTHING comparable to what many classic cases present. Yes, I know the "NAZI-UFO" theories, but you know even in those theories the technology is reported to come from aliens too! Anyways, I do not think that humans had created aircraft by the 1950s capable of speeds such as is reported here in this case:

1. The B-29 Incident Over The Gulf
[pressimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/cc50d26fcf0f.jpg [/pressimg]
Courtesy:nicap.org
Hynek Classification: CE1,R/V

In the early morning hours on December 6th, 1952 during a training mission over the Gulf of Mexico, the crew of a B-29 Superfortress , cruising at 18,000 feet, made radar and visual contact with multiple UFOs. The crew was returning to Florida from a night practice flight and was about 100 miles south of the Louisiana coast under clear weather and bright moonlight very early in the morning. At around 5:25 AM Lieutenant Sid Coleman checked his radar scope to see if he could see the coast line. What he saw was a URE (Unknown Radar Echo) at the edge of the screen, that in the next sweep had gone 13 miles in that brief pause between the sweeps. Another URE appeared on the screen and appeared to be heading right for the B-29 at 5,240(by manual calculations) mph! This is only the first incident in the case, I will cover the rest below, but first let’s go over some details of the crew.

Important Details
[color=gold]The Crew:
• 1st LT. Norman Karas-Visual Observation
• 1st LT. WM Naumann Jr- Instrument Navigation
• Master Sgt. B.R. Percell-Assistant Radar Operator
• Staff Sgt. WM J Derouse-Gunner
• 2nd LT. Robert J Eckert-Navigation
• Staff Sgt. HD Shogren-Radar Operator
• Captain John Harter-Flight Commander
• Lieutenant Sidney Coleman-Radar Operator
• Master Sergeant Bailey Percell- Assistant Radar Operator
• Staff Sgt. Ferris-Assistant Radar Operator
• Crew had several hundred hours of flying time and experience combined between them.



[color=gold]Weather, Radar, and Location Information

• Weather was clear and windless with a temperature of 10 degrees Celsius.
• All oil refineries were spotted and accounted for as well.
• There were 25 hits in ten minutes.
• UREs seen on multiple scopes by three different personal.
• Radar was working properly according to crew.
• Location was around 100 miles south of Louisiana and 190 miles east of Galveston, Texas.
• All UREs (also called UFOs in this case because of the visuals) were at around the same altitude as the plane, which was 18,000 feet.

Map Showing Location of Encounter

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/29bc1253eab2.jpg[/atsimg]

• NOTE: The other research files on this case (included in sources section) give different coordinates, but those are obviously erroneous once you plug them in as it would place the aircraft close to the Sea of Cortez. This is likely due to the poor condition of the Blue Book files. My information was computed using logic and the original Blue Book map you can find here. The exact coordinates may differ by a small margin but I assure you they are close within an acceptable margin of error.

The Rest of The Sightings

As I have shown in the opening the initial contact was made at about 5:25 AM on December 6th, 1952, 100 miles south of the Louisiana coastline. The initial URE contacts (which were three) were clocked at speeds of around 5,000 mph. The following is the summary of the remainder of the incidents as initially recorded by Major Donald Keyhole and subsequently NICAP:

When LT. Coleman alerted his Captain of the speed of the URE the Captain did not believe him stating “that’s impossible, recalibrate your scope!”---the speed was the same as before. After the initial contacts were recorded the action picked up immensely , with the next set of contacts coming just as Coleman was rechecking the calculations when Master Sgt. Bailey spotted another two UREs. Lieutenant Eckert, the navigator spotted the two more UREs as well. At this time the UFOs were on all three scopes, which were recalibrated to show no malfunctions. As an unknown URE was spotted on radar at “3 o’clock” Master Sgt. Bailey Percell witnessed a “white-blue” object streak by in a blur under the bombers right wing”.

At this time three more UREs appeared on the radar screens at an apparent speed of over 5,000 mph (Around Mach 7) on a bearing dead ahead (12 o’clock). The three UFOs veered to miss the bomber by “some miles”. There now was a brief pause of activity 6 minutes into the incident that lasted only briefly as another group of UREs appeared on the scopes at the same speed as before. At the 4 o’clock position two more UFOs of the same “white-blue color” streaked by the aircraft, this was seen visually by Staff Sgt. Ferris. Forty miles behind the B-29 5 more UREs appeared (which actually were observed on radar to “swerve” into the path f the aircraft) and were calculated to be there in three seconds(48,000 mph or around Mach 47).

But then the UREs slowed down to match the bombers speed almost instantly! That is a deceleration from Mach 47 to match the subsonic speed of the B-29 (cruise speed around 220 mph)near instantly! The UFOs kept pace with the aircraft for around 10 seconds then quickly picked up speed and merged to one side. They then proceeded to merge into one object (on the radar scope) and zoom off at around 9,000 mph. Coleman alerted the Captain:

"Captain, did you see that?"

"Yes-I saw it," said Harter.

"We clocked it," said Coleman. "You won't believe this-it was making over 9,000 miles an hour!"

"I believe it, all right," Harter said grimly. "That's just what I figured."

www.nicap.org...

Alternate Explanations and Official Conclusions

When the crew landed they were immediately questioned by intelligence officers with the USAF(They had radioed ahead and alerted the ground of their incident). Here are some statements, all courtesy of nicap.org:

Captain Harter: "One group of blips was noted, after the set was calibrated, to arc about and swing in behind us at about 30 miles, and maintain speed and distance for approximately ten seconds . . Contact was broken off at 0535, after a group of the blips merged into a one half-inch arc and proceeded across the scope and off it at a computed speed of over 9,000 m.p.h."

Lieutenant Coleman: "I noticed one UFO approach our aircraft at a terrific rate of speed. I timed it as best I could with a stop-watch over a known distance and the flight engineer computed the speed at 5,240m.p.h. I alerted the entire crew to look for the objects visually, and flashes of light were noted. The closest the objects came was approximately 20 miles. I saw about 20 objects in all. I recalibrated the set and there was no change.

"The objects were small and possibly round, with the exception of one very large return shaped as follows, one- half-inch curved arc. I also noticed a large return come up to within 40 miles of our tail from behind and then disappear. To the best of my knowledge, I believe that this object was real and moved at an extremely high speed and was not a set malfunction or optical illusion."

Master Sergeant Bailey: "The radar operator clocked the object [the first one seen] and I computed the air speed of the object to average 5,240 m.p.h. Twice during the period, the radar operator reported an object to be passing at 3 o'clock. Upon looking out the window, I saw a blue-white streak travel front to rear and disappear under the wing."

Staff Sergeant Ferris: "After the radar operator reported objects approaching at 4 o'clock, I immediately looked in that position and saw two flashes of a blue-white nature for approximately three seconds."

I have confirmed these statements from the official Blue Book Documents(Pages 973-76, 985-1003), unfortunately they are greatly degraded and in bad perspective. For ease of viewing I am using these “text only” statements which I have authenticated as stated.

Continued in THIS THREAD

Originally posted by aceace
images.google.com...

The Nazi's were building round aircraft in the 1940's

I find it odd that you believe that, with next to no evidence, yet you so easily discount the far greater evidence of UFOs just because you haven't seen a clear video.

The nazis may well have been trying to duplicate something they'd seen in the sky, but hey, they'd have had to see the thing first, right?

Yes, the nazis were way ahead of their time when it comes to technology. But if they actually had anything that worked, you can guarantee Hitler and co. wouldn't have been hiding in a bunker. It's also hard to see how they could have lost the war if they were advanced as this would suggest.

Originally posted by Clickfoot

I find it odd that you believe that, with next to no evidence, yet you so easily discount the far greater evidence of UFOs just because you haven't seen a clear video.

The nazis may well have been trying to duplicate something they'd seen in the sky, but hey, they'd have had to see the thing first, right?

Yes, the nazis were way ahead of their time when it comes to technology. But if they actually had anything that worked, you can guarantee Hitler and co. wouldn't have been hiding in a bunker. It's also hard to see how they could have lost the war if they were advanced as this would suggest.

I've seen plenty of evidence of Nazi engineering including video of these experimental craft w/ swastikas on the side. What makes you think they had seen something in the sky? There is absolutely no proof of that. These experimental craft did work but were inefficient at the time. You should take the time to read about Adm. Byrds adventures in the Antarctic. There might be some answers for you there and why they went there.

Originally posted by aceaceI've seen plenty of evidence of Nazi engineering including video of these experimental craft w/ swastikas on the side. What makes you think they had seen something in the sky? There is absolutely no proof of that. These experimental craft did work but were inefficient at the time. You should take the time to read about Adm. Byrds adventures in the Antarctic. There might be some answers for you there and why they went there.

With all due respect... there are no answers to be learned from that, because none of it is true. Again, hard to imagine why you would believe any of that, when there is vastly more evidence for other subjects which you just write off completely in your first post.

Nobody has any real answers but we've got some serious professionals telling the same story. We can not discredit the possibility of ET life because we haven't even scratched surface of the universe.

Keep an open mind. With any luck something genuine will surface to all of us.

Originally posted by rwiggins
The Phoenix Lights mystery has been, in my opinion, distorted with the retelling. From what I understand, there were multiple sightings that day/evening. What was shown on the news, the arc of lights, was most probably flares. However, there were also reports from Flagstaff, Phoenix and Tucson about a flying "V" shaped craft that same day. In other words, people are conflicting the multiple events that happened that day with the much reported video of the flares on the news.

Make sense?

I was confused, too, until I started researching and listening to the different witness reports. Separate events, same day.

I tend to agree. There are detailed eyewitness descriptions of the craft flying low overhead, and then there are the images of the "flares" that everyone has seen. Perhaps the military exercises were a distraction.

I'm of the opinion that it was some sort of lighter than air stealth craft, or stealth blimp. One witness described a wavy, shimmering surface as it passed overhead. I personally know of two people who have seen such triangular craft, my own father included, in southern Illinois, along with members of the local police departments. I am positive that they are real, and fairly certain that they are ours.

[edit on 25-8-2009 by draknoir2]

reply to post by aceace


I really don’t see how you can comment so strongly on this, yes you can be a sceptic but you’re basically accusing believers of being gullible and falling for this like everything else the governments throw at the public, but were not. I for one have seen what I think is a UFO, maybe I’m wrong but who knows, this is the only way I can explain what I saw. Unless you can help otherwise like *cough cough* flares. Sat in the back garden with friends and family when someone noticed something in the sky, a bright ball of orange light was moving slowly across the sky, faster than a plane yet slower than a shooting star or likewise, it went straight across the visible sky at a constant speed. Then a minute before it went out of view the bright orangness faded and all you could see was a white ball, still moving, same speed, perfectly circular. I think until you either witness this phenomenon or have certified proof that none of this is real and your right, its another government lie then you cant have such a strong opinion on the fact.

MrWebby666
UK

I have ONE THING to say.

ABSENCE of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.

B.T

reply to post by MrWebby666


What's even more dumb of aceace is that all he says is, "All of the evidence is fake or a hoax. None of it is real."

Then, he offers no theory or proof of his own of why our evidence is fake.

Originally posted by Mak Manto
reply to post by MrWebby666

 

What's even more dumb of aceace is that all he says is, "All of the evidence is fake or a hoax. None of it is real."

Then, he offers no theory or proof of his own of why our evidence is fake.

Wow dude, you call me dumb because you say I can't prove something is fake. I've debunked for years. Just because something can't be proven fake does not put the burden on me. The burden to prove a ufo is real is on you completely. All through the 40's up until now there is no proof of any alien living on earth. There is proof that many people have made a ton of money using your faith. It's like the Thor's who testified in front of congress. They had 1950's haircuts/styles (Jill, Don and Val) Roswell has become a joke. Many know that the ballons were top secret to spy on Russia. What do you expect them to say "it was just one of our top secret spy ballons" be real and use common sense.

reply to post by aceace


Now you're saying you've been debunking evidence over the years...

Yeah, and I'm a member of the MIB.

Look, you came into this forum with no proof that the evidence we collect is fake. You still have no proof.

In the end, all you are is a zealot who is preaching the same thing over and over again.

reply to post by aceace


I Disagree with you there my friend when i was about 4-6 years old i remembered getting out of the bath & going into my room to put something on and as i walked into my room one of the walls lit up it looked at my window & there was a window with a being standing on the other side of it & all i remember is screaming as loud as i could for my mum & then waking up a few hours later ..

All you debunkers, take a crack at these videos.

www.youtube.com...
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Originally posted by aceace
Many know that the ballons were top secret to spy on Russia.

Sounds like a claim to me.

Mind proving that for us?

Since the 40' and the 50's there has been a lot of film and photo evidence. In the fifties and sisxties many pictures were taken by the gun cameras on military aircraft sent to intercept unknown objects invading restricted airspace, this practice most likely still continues. I believe there has been tons of film shot of UFO's, again mostly by the military. The late astronaut and pilot Gordon Cooper publicly stated that on May 3rd 1957 while he was a captain at Edwards AFB a 'flying saucer' landed on a dry lake bed and was photographed and filmed by a team of specialists under his command who were there to operate a camera system designed to film landing militay aircraft. They got stills and film of the craft, which Cooper took a look at before shipping it off to Washington on the base generals aircraft. Cooper also stated that in 1951 when he was a lieutenant stationed at Neubiberg AFB in Germany he and his colleagues were scrambled to intercept saucer shaped craft that flew over the base for several days, but their f-86 jets were not able to reach the altitude the UFO's were at, he did make visual contact with the objects however.

There have been many pictures 'leaked' and so on but they will always come up against the staunch scrutiny of skeptics and while most will be refuted as 'fakes' the ones that dont will simply be classified as 'unknown' and not actual proof of extraterrestrial craft visiting Earth.

Also there is a policy of public ridicule, threats and worse directed at people(insiders, pilots, astronaut etc.) who come forward with information pertaining to this subject.

excuse me.

1) i need you to look at the backdrop on jon stewart's daily show on comedy central. or look closely at a flat world map devoid of everything except both water and land.

2) i need you to look at the pacific coast on the entire western side of both north and south america from alaska to the southern tip of south america.

3) i need you to look at a picture of the profile of an ape or of a chimp, or of most primates, the "dominant species on the planet".

4) i need you to see that there is a very real resemblance between the profile of a primates head, and north america's and south america's pacific coastline. the pacific ocean resembles the profile look of a primate's face looking east.

5) i need you to ask yourself what is the statistical probability of thousands of miles of shoreline so closely resembling the dominant species on the planet being a natural phenomenon without intelligent intervention?

6) what variables would be utilized and in what equation to determine the statistical probability of the entire western seaboard of the continents of both north and south america forming the profile of the dominant creature of the planet being a phenomenon devoid of any intelligent intervention?


thank you esoteric teacher

glenn beck's standards this week ......

1) question with boldness
2) hold to the truth
3) speak without fear

thank you esoteric teacher
thank you som


integrity is best described as "compliance with the facts", not merely being honest with others, which means nothing if your not honest with yourself. if one is not honest with themselves, then logically how can one trust that one?

reply to post by aceace
www.youtube.com...

then i guess these people did not camera a ufo either, this so clear and close how can you deny people do not see ufos. thats just dumb. you saying that millions of people are all liars. i dont think so. watch the video and tell me im wrong.

no response to my contribution yet?

does anyone here see a resemblance between the profile of a primate (ape or chimp) and the entire western coastline of both north and south america?


ask yourself what are the odds of this being a natural phenomenon that is the result of no intelligent intervention?


i dedicate this thought to glenn beck. and his ideals this week:

1) question with boldness
2) hold to the truth
3) speak without fear

reply to post by soul of integrity


Am I right in saying that you believe that somebody from somewhere else shaped the coastlines of N & S America to resemble an ape?

That's a theory that I've never come across before.

What about errosion, continental drift etc. I mean you can see shapes of whatever you like in clouds if you try, does that mean that there's some kind of intelligence behind cloud formation? I doubt it.

Scandinavia looks like dick, does that mean that 'They' have a sense of humour or does it mean that 'they' think the swedes are dickheads???
Sorry, had to throw that one in.