I "know" nothing. And neither do you.

reply to post by ah...dehavilland


How, praytell, is it metaphyiscal goobledgook if nothing metaphsyical is mentioned of even infered, sir or ma'am? Acknowledging one's limitations is not metaphysics.

But how do you know that you know nothing??

reply to post by semidiablan


Like I said, I know the limitations of both my mind and my senses and know that both can be tricked and are limited in their capacity to do their jobs. Sometimes *usually* even by myself.
Ergo, nothing I believe to be true is anything I "know" as it can be wrong.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by ah...dehavilland

 

How, praytell, is it metaphyiscal goobledgook if nothing metaphsyical is mentioned of even infered, sir or ma'am? Acknowledging one's limitations is not metaphysics.

Dang son, that is a pretty harsh comment.

SVE

reply to post by thedude69


Um, I was cutting to the point? I don't understand how it could possibly be construed as metaphysical without adding assumption *things I did not say* into the mix. And I have never been one to mince words very well.

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by badmedia

 

Um, there is a great deal we "know" exists but do not understand. Gravity being a prime example of that. We know it's effects, somewhat, but we do not know it's cause.

*Sorry for the late response*

But that knowledge is in itself relative and is therefore not "real", and so you "know nothing" as the thread suggests.

However take math. The symbols we use for math aside, as they are of this world,but the actual knowledge of knowing 1+1=2. The actual understanding behind math - well that is real knowledge that is valid no matter what our senses provide, or no matter what reality we may find ourselves in.

Even if we assume a reality with somekind of doubler effect to it, the same understanding of math will still apply, although the numbers would all be doubled etc.

So I would say real knowledge is understanding. And as it turns out, if you take a hard look you will find that we can't give that understanding to people directly. All we can do is express that understanding with symbols and such. I can't give you the understanding directly of math, but I can express it as 1+1=2 and so on.

This world we are reduced to that expression, but that which is greater gives in terms of understanding, the real knowledge.

reply to post by badmedia


Math is a human construct...... Not a natural phenom.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Math expressed surely is a human construct.

But the real understanding behind it, it be different.

reply to post by badmedia


And misunderstanding can and is likely to happen. And really, all math is an aditrary labels attached to phenom to make it more understandable and give us the hope of prediction.



[edit on 5-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Misunderstanding is why we have disagreements.

Like for example, people think you go to school to learn math. Not the case at all. What you are learning with math in school is how to express and work with those expressions. The real understanding of math itself is already there. If we lacked the basic understanding behind math, we would be unable to learn how to express it.

When I say "math", I am talking about the ability to see that 2>1(expression there see, I am reduced to such in this world). But even a 2 year old with no math classes or anything will know that 2 pieces of candy is more than 1 piece. That real understanding is already there.

reply to post by badmedia


Have we started agreeing?

reply to post by badmedia

However take math. The symbols we use for math aside, as they are of this world,but the actual knowledge of knowing 1+1=2. The actual understanding behind math - well that is real knowledge that is valid no matter what our senses provide, or no matter what reality we may find ourselves in.

He is right when he says we no nothing.. because we do not.. the reason for this is not about 1+1=2

and as you pointed out, its the understanding of the math.. what is math?

its a way to apply and work out things to we can work with in logic

what is logic? well its a system we use like shapes its even symmetrical

the problem on the other hand with this is our friend chaos were does that come from? well the chaos in math arises from you, that is the reason for odd numbers in math. "being alive"

Your body 1 your mind 1 = 2

Both are Chaos resulting in order but ! one element remains, the question of why we are here...

Now if we add that into our calculation you will get 3

1+1 = 3

not 2

3 is the reason you ask questions and gives you a reason to be here

If you knew everything there would be no reason to be here, to no nothing and learn it is the important part of this.

reply to post by badmedia


Very true

Every path one takes is still one the same road and all lead to the same place and came from the same place..

The road is complex and long but, everyone takes the journey.

And its a one way road in that respect, understading everyone is on the same road helps when having any kind of debate.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by badmedia

 

Math is a human construct...... Not a natural phenom.

At the end of everything, there is only math. Math is the language of God.

Originally posted by postmeme

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by badmedia

 

Math is a human construct...... Not a natural phenom.

At the end of everything, there is only math. Math is the language of God.

Close, but if you don't mind I'd like to make a tiny edit. Math is understanding.

Understanding is the language of God.

And from good understanding comes wisdom.

I don't think it's entirely true that we know nothing. We may not have all the exact facts or be able to be completely be certain or something. However, from our experiences, perceptions and feelings, we do come to know things; we start understanding things and picking up higher knowledge that only seeing solid facts cannnot provide. For example, I know what will make me feel sad/happy and can really understand why. Saying that we "only know that we don't know anything," is saying that we "know" that nothing is for certain, but we don't know that there isn't anything for certain.

Originally posted by symmetricAvenger
reply to post by badmedia

 

However take math. The symbols we use for math aside, as they are of this world,but the actual knowledge of knowing 1+1=2. The actual understanding behind math - well that is real knowledge that is valid no matter what our senses provide, or no matter what reality we may find ourselves in.

He is right when he says we no nothing.. because we do not.. the reason for this is not about 1+1=2

and as you pointed out, its the understanding of the math.. what is math?

its a way to apply and work out things to we can work with in logic

what is logic? well its a system we use like shapes its even symmetrical

the problem on the other hand with this is our friend chaos

were does that come from? well the chaos in math arises from you, that is the reason for odd numbers in math. "being alive"

Your body 1 your mind 1 = 2

Both are Chaos resulting in order but ! one element remains, the question of why we are here...

Now if we add that into our calculation you will get 3

1+1 = 3

not 2

3 is the reason you ask questions and gives you a reason to be here

If you knew everything there would be no reason to be here, to no nothing and learn it is the important part of this.

People always say that: 2+2=4... and they think that's it, full stop, end of story. However, if you turned the first 2 back-to-front, instead of a 4, it would look like a love-heart balancing on its point.. this shows that even logic, which you described as a system of SHAPES, even symetrical, is NOT straight-forward, just because something may seem simple and easy, it does not mean that something that requires more thinking, intelligence and broad-mindidness isn't correct or logical. It's simply not enough to state the obvious. If we really want to know more, we don't do it by sitting at the level of 2+2=4.. come on, you know that amazing, confusing, yet completely logical, scientific discoveries have been made through REAL intelligence, not the lowest of all knowledge like 2+2=4.

reply to post by Crying-Lightning


Yes i agree but it started that way with 1+1=2

and you wonder why maths is flawed at this point?

because you was never in the equation of math to begin with

You are the missing number in math 1+1 = 3

The left over interglacial is YOU

That is why you ask questions my friend... from chaos came order = YOU and from order shall come chaos = asking questions resulting in answers

Agreed! One of my favorite quotes

I have had this conversation with people before. How much do we really know? I say not much really. Everything is always changing and being disproved. I personally dont believe we will ever really know anything we are trying to know...if that makes sense. S&F!

reply to post by symmetricAvenger


What is your point? My point is just because something may not be obvious and requires higher thinking, it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense or is illogical, and just because 2+2=4 is simple and easy, it's not the only answer- sometimes you have to think big to know more. Maths is maths, not the knowledge of the universe. Maths is no good if you want to "know" how your brain chemistry effects your mood.