I "know" nothing. And neither do you.

The disciples were absorbed in a discussion of Lao-tzu's dictum:
"Those who know, do not say;
Those who say, do not know."
When the master entered,
they asked him what the words meant.
Said the master, "Which of you knows the fragrance of a rose?"
All of them indicated that they knew.
Then he said, "Put it into words."
All of them were silent.

love the thread

wouldn't life be boring if we knew everything?

The amount of times I have been proven wrong and yet I would have put money on me being right!!

I find when i think i know something for sure I am closed off to other peoples ideas and beliefs about the same thing. It seems much more exciting to realise we dont know anything about anything. If we could do this we may see the world from a more child like perspective with everything being new, beautiful and wonderful...

I've been using this argument often since I was 13. Knowing and believing aren't synonymous, but far to many are to self absorbed to consider that.

I have always thought of it this way...when dear, old Socrates pronounced,"the only knowledge I have received, is the knowledge of my own ignorance"...he had spent his life discovering this, this was not something that came naturally, like to a fool.

I do not believe Socrates ever claimed to, "know nothing"...not the ultimate `nothing`.This paradox seems to have only been used to mock the arrogant.

The wise usually approach `nothing`,many times, but never take the leap.

It takes a wise man to admit that he knows nothing. Never settle for a convenient truth, and never stop believeing you can become more. To stop searching for answers is to stop growing on all levels.

S/F'd!

I did an entire thread on this a while back actually


Hubris: The Arrogance of Conviction

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Nice thread, Watcher. I hold a similar philosophy summed in my sig.

"If you proclaim absolute truth, you are wrong."

We are not capable of 'knowing' such things.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


It' is impossible to not know anything.
Example: If I smash my face on my keyboard, I know it will hurt.


You do know something you know you exist, knowledge is not created it is passed on.

Know thy being.

It is a long journey ahead, the most important variable is to understand that you are existing, being, "TO BE". Knowing.

[edit on 29-7-2009 by Psychonaughty]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Isn't knowling that you know nothing also knowling something. Maybe you shoudl change your title to "..."

You all know something, but you've been taught that what you do know is not important.

Question: What does it mean to really know "nothing?"

Merriam webster defines "nothing" as:
1 : not any thing : no thing
2 : no part
3 : one of no interest, value, or consequence

So the question is: What is "nothing" really?

Lets say you were pointing to an area of space where no atoms, particles, gases etc existed. There was no sign of life or matter there whatsoever. "Nothing" existed there. So anyway, your pointing at this area, and some kid comes along and asks you, "hey mister, what are you pointing at?" And you say, "Oh I'm just pointing at 'nothing'." Well? what is nothing? Nothing is still something is it not?

So are you sure you really know what it means to know "nothing?"


[edit on 7/29/2009 by thehumbleone]

So let's all get together and pool the knowledge that might turn out to be nothing at all.

To quote Hogan's Heroes
I see nothing, I know nothing.
very paraphased, I haven't seen the show in a long time.

It's quite scary really, our perception of everything consist of electrical impulses that can vary from person to person, so our common conscience is really subjective.

Knowing that you don't know is more than half the battle. Need proof? Just look at all the ideologues and fanatics and wait for them to change their minds.

My beliefs are not concrete. They have changed in the past and likely will later on. I can think of almost nothing that I am completely sure of, except the OP's title.

Yup. Very true.

It is pretty much impossible to prove anything.

Which actually makes things very interesting, and may be the reason the universe can continue to exist.

Peter.

Well.
We cannot say that we don't know ANYTHING.
For example....you KNOW that if you jump off of an 100 story building into the road...you will die. You know this to be 99.99999% to be true.
You know that you are born from a woman.
These are just a couple of simple examples.
Of course you do not know something 100%. But you can't possibly say that 99.9999% is not good enough for you?
This is the difference between the "strong" definition of knowing...and the "soft" definition.
A pure skeptic will contend that we know nothing unless we directly experience it, and once we have ceased to experience it...we do not know it anymore.
For example:
You are in your office. In your desk drawer is your calendar which you use everyday. You then walk out of your office and into the hallway...someone asks you...."Is your calendar in your desk drawer right now?". Of course you will answer "yes", because you are justified in believing that your calendar still remains in your desk drawer and has not been removed by anyone within such a limited time-frame.
A pure skeptic will tell you that you do not actually KNOW that your calendar remains in the same place where you have left it 2 minutes prior to someone asking you about it; since you are not directly observing it at that time.
No answer is ever good enough for the pure skeptic.

Perhaps I slightly misunderstand what it is you are trying to say.
But, if you are trying to say that we "know" absolutely NOTHING, then I must disagree with you. There are some things where our justified beliefs are sufficient enough to consider "knowing".

Excellent post! I would venture to say that I am one of those "pure skeptic" you speak of hehe.

Originally posted by GlossomBoodchild
There are some things where our justified beliefs are sufficient enough to consider "knowing".

I disagree obviously! Calling it a justified belief is spot on, you believe it because your internal data justifies it. But this is not sufficient to knowing, since you haven't experienced nearly enough reality to have eliminated any of the reasonable explanantions you may not even be aware of. Second hand knowledge is even less conclusive. Believing in someone elses teachings is a matter of faith. Faith is not knowing, faith is hoping you or someone else is right.

There's nothing wrong with having a justified belief, it's how we keep our sanity. I like to think that because I position myself philosophically as a "person who doesn't know anything" I am more readily able to entertain radical ideas.

But anyways,don't mind me, I'm alos one of those "hair-splitter" types. LOL

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows

Good post, although I disagree with the premise.

There is a vast chasm between knowing a thing as a mental concept and the Knowing that comes through experience. I like to say that we cannot truly know a thing until we have experienced it, then you may say you know something.

At the same time we must be vigilant on what we believe about our knowing. We cannot allow ourselves to experience and know something then form a Belief about it... thus thinking it is absolute and unchangeable.

Instead we can know from direct experience, and then be open for the next phase where what we know will become refined further with more experience. So what we know is really only our current understanding, which must grow and change as we do.

Knowledge is nothing if not gained through your own direct experience, otherwise we are only supporting an already existant Belief. Knowledge is wasted if not shared for the good of the whole. And it must never be allowed to petrify into a Belief, otherwise your own journey or awakening comes to a halt.... confined within that Belief, thus becoming stagnant.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”

Well than how can you claim to know that you know nothing if you can't know a thing to begin with?
Sorry, I just love these paradoxical quotes which sound (at first glance) wise.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Seriously, you believe you "know" something. But none of us truly "know" anything.

How do you know that?
Lulz, sorry again, this is just easy.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
And it is when we delude ourselves into believing and stop questioning something that we believe we know anything. Think of everything that mankind has convinced himself that he "knew" through out history. How much of that has been proven incorrect? How can you justify believing yourself somehow better than they? Are you somhow less failable and beyond them?

I could ask you the same question lulz.

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
Just something to consider. A great number of possibilities believed to be impossible can only be dismissed with the incredulity of a peson who has deluded themselves they know *or others they have faith in to "know"* all that is within the realm of "possible".

True enough, but the rest of your post was self contradictory to the point of being humorous.

I agree we shouldn't claim to know what's beyond our reach, but if you're going to make the argument that we shouldn't claim to know anything, then I suggest you follow your own advice.

Reply to post by DemonicAngelZero

Of course they aren't. When you think you know something you believe it stronger than something you classify as a belief.


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