I "know" nothing. And neither do you.

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


part of me just wants to keep this going - but I suppose that would be childish

:-)

I know that my perception is imperfect *as are all of ours* and can be tricked by myself or any number of things, including the limitations of my senses and how my mind processes information and even that has to pass through through the gates of what I can understand and what I will accept. So yes, I do know that I do not "know" anything.

I can be tricked too Watcher - as you point out - we all can

I wonder why it is that you're so concerned about maybe being fooled? I think it's very interesting

I also wonder - why does it bother you so much that other people believe they know something? Please understand why I'm asking - it's a fair question considering all we've been through :-)

I think there is probably no one that would disagree with your OP outright - most reasonable people understand what you're trying to accomplish here

but it seems to offend you personally on some level that people are confident in their opinions - and claim to know anything - anything at all

while you may be right in a very broad sense - I think on some level you must understand that you - yes, you Watcher - do know something

yet you're completely unwilling to concede that point - and I wonder why

this is not Spira trying to pick a fight - this is Spira trying to understand what this is really all about

confidence - surety - they're not the same as arrogance (at least - not always) :-)

I see this as being personal for you on some level

in any case - it's been a very interesting thread - and well received

I hope you got what you were after

:-)

Reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Spira kindly seperate the claim from the person making the claim please. Not that you know my motivations thoughts or even my feelings and even if you did I am not the point. I am fully aware I have unintentionly issued an insult to a certain type of person, it wasn't unanticipated though.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Watcher - as you are so quick to instruct others to do - please read the post again

:-)

seriously

If you know you know nothing, then you DO know something.
Paradoxes, got to love them.

If I can ask myself whether I know something or not, then that question exists.
I know that the question exists.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by MatsEP]

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


Well, suddenly you started knowing?
I mean, how can you even use arguments if you know nothing?
How can I possibly pay attention to what you are saying if the first thing you said was that you knew nothing? I feel that we are losing coherence and integrity, no?

By the way, my beliefs are really different from yours.
And in the end, beliefs are the same as knowledge.
Knowledge is the awareness of useful beliefs.

Hmm, not trying to be funny but, I know when i have to eat. I know what kind of car i drive. I know when i have to work. I know i love the ones that i love. You see, when it comes to the Truth, we can only speak for ourselves.

Originally posted by Conclusion
You see, when it comes to the Truth, we can only speak for ourselves.

I'd give you a bajillion stars if I could.

That right there should be a central idea to anyones belief system.

Well done.

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


The "riddle" is talking about subjective reality vs objective reality.

All that you "know" is of the objective reality. But when you begin to question that objective reality and you start to understand things beyond their face value, you start to get into the subjective reality. And in the subjective reality, you know nothing, because nothing is actually "real", all that you "know" is just from this single experience of an objective reality.

Subjective Reality Simplified

I believe in a balance, I use what I "know" in the objective reality for the objective reality, but I also realize that in truth, I am in a subjective reality - but on a higher level.

Real truth/knowledge is understanding - of which carries weight beyond a single objective reality.

So ultimately, the statement draws out if someone is in the perspective of subjective reality, or an objective reality. If you disagree, you are in an objective reality. If you see his point, likely in a subjective reality.

Make sense?




[edit on 7/30/2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by badmedia


:-)

did my post make sense?

Originally posted by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Silenceisall

 

Not really. It's about taking yourself with a grain of salt. No one's perception of reality is perfect. It's my opinion that it's rather like a mirror image, if the mirror had flaws and in this particular case they all do, no matter how hard it maybe for us to see for various reasons. Add to that the fact we can and often do convince ourselves of things and will allow nothing and no one to convince us otherwise.

[edit on 30-7-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

What I am saying is that "conceptually" you are correct, but concepts have nothing to do with true not knowing. Not knowing is not something that can be discussed or conceptualized. True not knowing lies outside the mind altogether. It is a way of being, and not a belief. True not knowing is what is left when we no longer believe any of our thoughs, including the one that says we do not know.




[edit on 31-7-2009 by Silenceisall]

Reply to post by Spiramirabilis

Ok I misread. So shoot me. =) It doesn't offend me that they think that they have some how ascended the limitations we all share.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows


beauty

:-)

shake?

let's stick to the topic and put an end to any posts attacking specific members.

thank you

reply to post by badmedia


Um, there is a great deal we "know" exists but do not understand. Gravity being a prime example of that. We know it's effects, somewhat, but we do not know it's cause.

*Sorry for the late response*

[edit on 4-8-2009 by Watcher-In-The-Shadows]

reply to post by thehumbleone


With all due respect you are getting too deep into the semantics of the argument.

reply to post by thehumbleone


With all due respect you are getting too deep into the semantics of the argument.