CALLING ALL MILITARY! Former and current!

Originally posted by Perseus Apex
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Unfortunately, those that will be enforcing martial law will be mostly made up of foreign troops (UN) though that is by design. Most of our troops will be conveniently overseas.

To answer your question, there are many ex-military like myself that would defend the 'people' and that which our military had supposedly lost so many lives defending; the US Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and Freedom and Liberty for all.

America is the last stand in the NWO scheme. If Americans don't rise up and defend the institutions above, America and that of the world will pay the price. Their collective progeny will be introduced to a world of serfdom where no one, even TPTB will be satisfied with the End result.

You have a Choice.
Choose wisely and act Courageously with Compassion in forethought.

I love everything you said exept I strongly disagree about the foreign troops. I said this previously, you will never see UN or any other set stomping the pavement of the USA. Just to entertain and something like that was attempted, we (Americans) would drive them out faster then you could say "OBAMA!! "

I have the mind set to go APE# in a contolled manner when its called for. I know alot of fellow Americans would be just as eger to defend our soil. It will be a very dark, bloody period if the above^stated ever unfolds.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Tank2/8]

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Tank2/8]

And that is the reason they want to take you guns and weapons away. Easier for them to get at you.

Originally posted by rapunzel222

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
reply to post by bobbylove321

 

You need to seriously get a grip on reality.

You can live in your fog if you so desire, but it is awfully ignorant to use your freedoms to malign those who defend them with their lives.

I really wish that we could give all those who think like you a piece of land to call your own, so that you could live in this peaceful, blissful world of no evil and no need for use of force.

You would be a model for all the rest of humanity.

before you all bite bobby's head off, i think the point he's trying to make, is that in the world as it is, when you fight, you fight for those in control of the world, and at the moment, unpleasant people control the world. THAT is reality.

if no one in the world faught, there would be no wars.

at the moment, since a lot of people are unpleasant, and a lot of people are under the control of other unpleasant people, there are wars and fighting. the only way to really end the situation, is for everyone to experience a personal revelation about living peacefully on a block of land (as you suggest) and growing their own vegetables. i live in hope.

in the meantime, i dont question the motives of those who serve in the army. they see themselves as protecting their country from foreign forces who could harm their families and friends. and the way the world is at the moment, the foreign forces and powers would no doubt do so, even if everyone in the USA dropped their weapons. so yeah. its a problem.

until everyone in the world cottons onto the living in peace on a vegetable farm idea, we are going to have to protect our selves and others from unpleasant, unpeaceful people.

BUT: if a lot of the unpleasantness is coming from the very top of our society. by those in charge - and who DO control governments/military/police/judges etcetera - directly or indirectly, - then i think bobby is trying to say that people need to think carefully about the orders they are following and personally evaluate everything. and i think we all need to turn a critical eye on our politicians and leaders - and bankers - etc - including people in teh military. becuz the military CAN be used against its people, and to support evil ends. just look at the nazis. i am sure most of them believed they were patriotically serving their country, yet look what happened. i just think people need to THINK. defend those you love, sure; but i do think people need to be careful about what and whose goals they could be furthering by serving their leaders.

and if the leaders turn on the people you love, dont fight for them anymore. fight for those you love. personally i think our leaders already have turned on the people. which presents a bit of a problem.

Now that is a respectible arguement. Thank you rapunzel222. Take some notes bobby.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Tank2/8]

I am currently active duty Navy. Just finished a tour in Afghanistan working with the Army, Marines and Air Force along with foreign troops in a joint service mission.

When I enlisted in the military, i swore an oath to "Protect and defend the Constitution of the United States against ALL enemies both foreign and DOMESTIC" And I intend to keep that oath. I will not stand to see any more of our Constitutional rights be taken away. The 10th Amendment of the Constitution states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

Right now, we have officials within our government that think that gun owners are dangerous and they wish to inflict even more sanctions on our rights to keep and bear arms.... But wait a minute, that is illegal being that our Constitutions states, "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

There arm many members that belong to the Oath Keepers (oathkeepers.org...)
There are certain orders in which we WILL NOT OBEY:
1. We will NOT obey orders to disarm the American people.

2. We will NOT obey orders to conduct warrantless searches of the American people

3. We will NOT obey orders to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to military tribunal.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control."

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies.

10.We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

You ask me whether or not I will stand with my fellow countrymen and fight in order to preserve the REPUBLIC we are guarenteed in the Constitution of the United States. That answer is yes, I will stand alone if need be. I ask you, are you prepared to fight? Do you know our history? Do you know your rights? If not, I urge you, learn them.

So here it is: USAF, USMC, NAVY, Coast Guard, US ARMY, all reservists , all vets and current military, WOULD YOU if ordered by the United States government, turn on your brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers and friends...on your COUNTRY , If the order was given to do so? Or would you fight back against TPTB, to protect our sovereignty and people from tyranny?

Would you willingly round up people say, who wouldnt take a flu vaccine, and assist local police in arresting said people?

If the people rose up against the government, would you stand beside us and help us restore our freedoms? The freedoms we were sworn to protect when we took our oath? Or would you help the government quell the uprising?

As an ex-Air Force member myself, I'd have to say HELL NO. The government would find itself up S*it Creek without a paddle. The Oath of Enlistment says, in part:

...I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic...

Also saying further:

....according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice....

The government, in this case, being the domestic enemy. We military members, past and present, are not mindless zombies.

cormac mac airt

Originally posted by observe50
And that is the reason they want to take you guns and weapons away. Easier for them to get at you.

You are closer to home on that then any other speculation of government taking controll over of its citizens I have heard. It almost sounds like a joke but I really hope our appointed reps. are doing everything they can to stop this.

I read in Army times a few months back about the government ceasing its 'recycling of spent brass' thats in turn used for civilian rounds on the market which will put a serious sqeeze on the ammo for our guns.

I hope that is not the beginning.

Just to clarify a few misconceptions. First, I was in the Navy for 6 years and the Army (National Guard) for 4, so whether you disagree with me or not, please understand that what I am saying is true. According to the UCMJ, you may and are accountable for disregarding unlawful orders, but it is a Catch-22, because as a soldier or sailor your are not allowed to disobey orders and will be held accoutable as such. In other words, if you and your buddies decide to not comply with the orders given to you, unlawful or not, now you are guilty of mutiny and sedition.

Here is some paraphrasing from About.com:

Military members who fail to obey the lawful orders of their superiors risk serious consequences. Article 90 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) makes it a crime for a military member to WILLFULLY disobey a superior commissioned officer. Article 91 makes it a crime to WILLFULLY disobey a superior Noncommissioned or Warrant Officer. Article 92 makes it a crime to disobey any lawful order (the disobedience does not have to be "willful" under this article).

I'm just curious... Do you think they will use human soldiers when the SHTF?

Or do you suspect that they have telepresence and programmed robots to to the dirty work? Or... Maybe they will convince you that "because of the flu, you must heroically pull all those unwilling to be "vaccinated" out of society "for our safety..."

If the troops are given a plausible reason to attack their friends and neighbors, they WILL follow orders.

And no doubt they have the excuse..er...reason all set to go. Either that or they just don't need you to pull it off.

reply to post by AmericanPatriot_ar15


Very good replies ladies and gentlemen, and Im very happy that we have for the most part been able to keep this whole thread under control and civil.

I am very appreciative of the people who have stated their reasoning behind thing that the troops would do as ordered, it is always nice to get some insight from the outside.

I too believe that the first thing the gov will try to do is amend the constitution, which CANNOT be allowed to happen, however with the huge numbers of people who are against peoples rights to have guns, im not sure its not possible.

I fear too that the first step is disarming citizens, all i have to say to that is .....good luck.

The possible next step would probably be having military and local personnel round up the guns from the people, also, good luck with that!

Im pretty sure that when people in active duty start seeing this sort of thing happening its going to pop their eyes wide open. We can only hope that the government would make such a BLATANT move, as it would only work in our favor.

Some posters have asked me personally if I would stand. Without a doubt of course I would! So does everyone I know former military and currently enlisted.

Another poster worried about the "brainless trained killers and snipers, they are the ones hes worried about" well, being 0321 1 Recon, i have to say we were trained pretty darn well to kill efficiently, i guess its a miracle im not a zombie?

There is a certain amount of indoctrination that goes on, but it doesnt make you mindless, it makes you efficient, and drastically increases your survivability, even a trained fighting dog when pushed too far will turn on its owner.

I realize there are quite a few "armchair" warriors out there, and people have touched on that in this thread. I assure you though, there are a huge number of us that ARENT, and we actively watch , listen , research and keep a sharp eye out for things that arent right. That goes for current enlisted men as well.

Youll find that the past couple of years has changed people, more people especially after this last election, and all the heat, are a lot more politically aware then they were before, they are watching and educating themselves.

My only request is dont underestimate us, we were trained to watch over our country and countrymen, and yes that involves being trained to kill, but it also involves being trained on when and how to show restraint , and to use your judgment!

As for the government they should remember , one who grabs the tigers tail, dare not turn lose. America is watching, civilians and Military, do not push too hard.

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it. "

"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty. "

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? "

all three quotes Thomas Jefferson

-Swift, Silent, Deadly Semper Fi

reply to post by mikerussellus



Mike, you know as well as i that even if an order is unethical and you disobey, you will face a tribunal/court marshall, and there have been some times when the ruling was unjust.

I have learned during my time in the Armed Forces that there are good, and bad people in the military just like in any other walk of life.


[edit on 28-7-2009 by ElectricUniverse]

You see, when it does happen, they will use mostly civillian contractors(the ones that don't give a # what they do as long as they have power and are paid, I.E. mercs) and foreign "peacekeepers" and UN security forces. Which are comprised of a lot of French, British, and Polish troops. Now all they have to do to sell it to them is to make us(gun owning military and ex military) look like we are terrorists. Most other UN countries would be more than happy to step into America and "police" us if they think that the mast majority of us are "terrorists."
As far as tribunal or court marshal goes, if I am given an order to draw arms against my fellow countrymen or an order similar, it won't only be disobeying a direct order they could charge me with. There will be assault and battery upon a superior and going AWOL. Because the second that our Constitution is no longer valid, I am no long a member of the United States military, I will head home and take up arms to protect my family, friends and property.
When that day comes, I will not be worried about "violating" the UCMJ. When that day comes, I will be worried about survival.

I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death!

reply to post by AmericanPatriot_ar15


I like what you have had to say so far. But you are wrong about the civilian contractors. They got a bad rep from a few isolated incidents. The rest of the time, you would have had to of been there to understand the circumstances. It was the Bush administration that gave them the immunization from persicution which was a good thing in a way but they should have seen the potential for some cowboyiss'm. Otherwise the contractors are just american people like me and you making a living at what they are good at.

saying they would turn on their own is just as if not more ubsurd as saying soldiers would.

Again, forget the possibility of foriegn orgs coming to our back yard to 'police' us up.

Many of those contractors are not Americans. There are foreign contractor companies doing that same thing. I know that MOST US military and contractors will not turn arms against us. But there are those that will, those that are looking to gain power by doing so. And yes, I could very well see foreign troops coming into our backyard, the rest of the world looks at us as trying to police the world, do you really think that they wouldn't jump at the chance to do the same to us?

reply to post by AmericanPatriot_ar15


I agree that there are some bad seeds that would have no problem shooting me or you in the back. I do not think there is enough of them to be any real threat to our way of life.

I just dont see it brother, true there are many groups and sets that would like to come to our house and end us or round us up. I honestly believe I have a better shot at winning powerball then this type of event taking place, let alone taking place and succeeding.

Again with the thought possiblity of foriegn agencies being brought in to keep us in check...I'm talking patroling our streets or quarantining the american people. I, without a single dought, think the world would see an uprising with a rage and fiery never before witnessed.

though some military members are family types or high school patriots, you fail to realize who the person behind the guns are. ever watch a combat video from marines or soldiers in iraq or afghanistan? theyre not yelling, "omg! we must stop those bad guys from harming these poor innocent iraqi people"... no no its, "kill that motherf*cker wooooo!!!!!, that was f*ckin awesoe maaaaaaaan" a tyranical government usuaully takes care of its own... its how they stay in power, so i doubt anyones families who have a military member (immediate family anywasy) would feel any of the pains the rest of us would feel. theyd be takin care of.. im a vet i know what kinda folks are in the service.. if they werent willing to kill somebody, they wouldnt have joined...

Our federal government has been doing real world "training" for years with this. New Orleans was a good example, we had civillian contractors going from door to door through UNFLOODED parts of New Orleans confiscating guns. That was a #ed up mess in that city. We were going in to rescue the stranded and getting shot at, to the point where we were fireing back from the helos.

The problem is, that there are too many people within the United States that are more than content to sit back and let the feds tell them what to do. You must remember, that the Revolutionary War was only fought by 3% of the population. If you think that there are no foreign groups or militaries willing to set up camp on American soil then I believe that you are underestimating the rest of the world.

Originally posted by TheCoffinman
though some military members are family types or high school patriots, you fail to realize who the person behind the guns are. ever watch a combat video from marines or soldiers in iraq or afghanistan? theyre not yelling, "omg! we must stop those bad guys from harming these poor innocent iraqi people"... no no its, "kill that motherf*cker wooooo!!!!!, that was f*ckin awesoe maaaaaaaan" a tyranical government usuaully takes care of its own... its how they stay in power, so i doubt anyones families who have a military member (immediate family anywasy) would feel any of the pains the rest of us would feel. theyd be takin care of.. im a vet i know what kinda folks are in the service.. if they werent willing to kill somebody, they wouldnt have joined...

I am the person behind the gun coff and so are many of the other posters here! I believe you are a vet but have you truely experienced the adrenaline of battle and how it feels? Some people handle it different then others. Again, all it takes is 1 bad person to make everyone else look bad. Yes, when you join you make yourself aware that you may have to take a life. That is war. It does not make them a cold blooded killer. The few who have set the bad examples had that mentality to start with....somewhere.

Have you ever been in a combat situation? The adrenaline hits you like a wave. When your brothers are getting blown up around you, then of course you are going to yell "# yeah we got that #er!" when you take out the guy that just shot your best friend.

I would be surprised at British troops in America. Talking to my colleagues, there seems to be a lot of cross military training between American and British troops (and not just Afghanistan).
Also what worries me with your scenario is the view of a placated/peaceful crowd rising up against the government - in this case the military would support this. However, look at G7 and other meetings - there is always a very small crowd of hard liners who want to stir up trouble (and actually ensure that all the good work by the peaceful few count for nothing on the 6 o'clock news)