CALLING ALL MILITARY! Former and current!

No matter what, we will always push the peaceful avenues first, but if they do not succeed and our rights continue to be infringed upon, then I do believe that the American people WILL rise up and address the situation through whatever means it takes.

Being current army national guard and serving 2 tours in Iraq. I know that if the SHTF, i will stand beside our american people. I joined the army to protect the people, and theres no way in hell that im going to kill my fellow americans just because some jack a$$ in office is on a power trip or whatever. being national guard, you are part time military and part time civilian, and i will always choose to protect the civilian side..... unless people started turnin into blood sucking zombies, then its game on....lol

reply to post by AmericanPatriot_ar15


Katrina was a blunder from the start. I was at hood and 1stCAV had gotten back from there first tour (early '05) It was not but a few months from their return they got called to go down and asist. I could not imagine the confusion some of them must have had to deal with.

There was alot of looting and violence among the people in the mist of the cauous. It could have been handled alot better then it was...obviously. But you cannot throw that into the same boat as the what we have been talking about.

When a catastrophy hits like that, there will always be people who try to take advantage of it to rob and steal...violently. And there HAS to be security to keep peace. Dont get me wrong. They #ed up katrina. But it is not the same

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Tank2/8]

Originally posted by Tank2/8
reply to post by AmericanPatriot_ar15

 

Katrina was a blunder from the start. I was at hood and 1stCAV had gotten back from there first tour (early '05) It was not but a few months from their return they got called to go down and asist. I could not imagine the confusion some of them must have had to deal with.

There was alot of looting and violence among the people in the mist of the cauous. It could have been handled alot better then it was...obviously. But you cannot throw that into the same boat as the what we have been talking about.

When a catastrophy hits like that, there will always be people who try to take advantage of it to rob and steal...violently. And there HAS to be security to keep peace. Dont get me wrong. They #ed up katrina. But it is not the same

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Tank2/8]

I was with the group from 1st cav when we returned from iraq in 05,, and ur right, a few months after being home, my unit was called to go to katrina.. It was chaos down there. There were people shooting at us while we were swimming down the streets and clearing houses.
The main thing is, when chaos hits, and people try to do the right thing by helping others, you always have the jack a$$es trying to cause problems. some sort of security is needed when help or rescue missions are at hand to at least protect the helpers.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


your quite welcome, it is a very worthwhile group whom i believe only have the best of intentions in mind. personally i'm not military or law enforcement but many friends and family have now taken the oath. i think for guys and gals returning from war now have a place to discuss issues amungst their peers where they will not be looked down apon.

Originally posted by Tank2/8
reply to post by AmericanPatriot_ar15

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Katrina was a blunder from the start. I was at hood and 1stCAV had gotten back from there first tour (early '05) It was not but a few months from their return they got called to go down and asist. I could not imagine the confusion some of them must have had to deal with.

There was alot of looting and violence among the people in the mist of the cauous. It could have been handled alot better then it was...obviously. But you cannot throw that into the same boat as the what we have been talking about.

When a catastrophy hits like that, there will always be people who try to take advantage of it to rob and steal...violently. And there HAS to be security to keep peace. Dont get me wrong. They #ed up katrina. But it is not the same

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Tank2/8]


I was with the group from 1st cav when we returned from iraq in 05,, and ur right, a few months after being home, my unit was called to go to katrina.. It was chaos down there. There were people shooting at us while we were swimming down the streets and clearing houses.
The main thing is, when chaos hits, and people try to do the right thing by helping others, you always have the jack a$$es trying to cause problems. some sort of security is needed when help or rescue missions are at hand to at least protect the helpers.






[edit on 28-7-2009 by Tank2/8]

I am current military and I can tell you there are a lot of anti-Military and war people out there. When it comes down to it we would never and could never turn our backs on our own people and country as well as friends and family. We would turn on the handlers that *try* to control us..

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


How about you back all that crap up with some real statistics? The people who will be replying to this post will not be of the same mindset that they would while surrounded by their "brothers" and being yelled at by their commanding officer. So right off, there is no point in this.

If you want to know the answer to your question look back through American history, then world history. Note how many vile things the military has done. Horrible, despicable things. Note the THOUSANDS of stories of gruesome, AWFUL things done by the US and other militaries. Now look for the stories of a soldier disobeying a vile order. They would be heros, right?

Even in the VERY few you will find the soldier is 99% of the time made out to look like the asshole. If soldiers were likely to stand up to BULL# orders throughout history... Well it would be a much different history wouldn't it. Most of the bad # that happened, wouldnt have. But they dont, they follow them. Everytime.

I am currently in the US Army, and i know just from talking to the dudes i work with that none of them would turn on the US Citizens even if ordered to. most people who sign up for the service don't do it to "serve" their country, they do it to get out of a situation, for money for school or have ran out of options and take the easy way out. but in all actuality if 51% or more of a declared group refuse an order or command, the leaders in charge can declare a mutiny and actually fire on the people of their own unit. and still i don't think that would stop anyone i serve with from disobeying an order.

reply to post by shug7272


shug, it's not our military you should fear. They have officers and NCO's in the chain of command.

I was former military, former SF, and if anyone is to be feared, it those who have no officers or NCO's to settle things down. I won't have a commander, nor a sergeant to direct my actions.

And worse than me will be the predators. Those without any history of discipline, without any sense of right and wrong, without any sense of limitations.

The military is the least of my concerns, and should be the least of concerns of any American.

Originally posted by shug7272
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

How about you back all that crap up with some real statistics? The people who will be replying to this post will not be of the same mindset that they would while surrounded by their "brothers" and being yelled at by their commanding officer. So right off, there is no point in this.

If you want to know the answer to your question look back through American history, then world history. Note how many vile things the military has done. Horrible, despicable things. Note the THOUSANDS of stories of gruesome, AWFUL things done by the US and other militaries. Now look for the stories of a soldier disobeying a vile order. They would be heros, right?

Even in the VERY few you will find the soldier is 99% of the time made out to look like the asshole. If soldiers were likely to stand up to BULL# orders throughout history... Well it would be a much different history wouldn't it. Most of the bad # that happened, wouldnt have. But they dont, they follow them. Everytime.

I'm surprised that so many of you are not paying attention. First off I'm an old school Vietnam vet so I know about the oath and the UCMJ. But everyone of you appear clueless.

Remember good cop/bad cop in the interogation room. That's how it's gonna work here.

My father asked me ten or twelve years ago if I thought that the US military would fire on civilians if ordered to do so. I replied that in a crisis situation (real or imagined) training kicks in first. You'd have to do an awful lot to provoke a fight but it could happen. In the days after the initial response "critical thinking" trumps training. That's when the questions of right and wrong swirl. And shortly after that the men and women in arms had better have one hell of good reason to consider US citizens as combatants.

But, and it's a really big but! That's before the US had it's own home based band of mercenaries. Allow me to introduce Blackwater.

Watch this video. Personally, it makes me sick but all of you who don't have a clue who's going to be doing the dirty work when troops take to the streets get an eyeful of this. You saw them on the streets of New Orleans after Katrina and folks- you're gonna see 'em again. On a street near you.
www.youtube.com...


Now before you run off to watch the video I'm going to ask you to do something while you watch. Listen very closely to the dialogue and to the background noise. Want to know what you're gonna hear? Nothing, absolutely nothing that indicates that these guys are under fire. The Hollywood air insertion makes it look like a hot LZ but listen.

You won't hear return fire in the distance and you won't hear these thugs mention anything about taking fire. So, who do you think they're shooting off the walls? They're shooting unarmed civilians that's who they're shooting off the walls. If this was a hot LZ the star of the video would have gotten a hole through the top of his head after about shot number four or have a mouth full of plaster off that wall he's behind. And look how old he is, hell, my youngest still has ten years on this mattress stain. Somebody explain that one. Where in the hell does Blackwater find psychos straight out of diapers like this and he's American for Christ's sake. How in God's name do you make sport of killin other humans especially the unarmed and defenseless?

All of you who wear the uniform need to take note and you need to remember that not everyone in civilian clothes is, in fact, a civilian (that's why I got so interested in the sound on the video). Hence the term "agent provocateur".

Folks, Uncle Sam is gearing up for a fight. He wants it bad and he'll have it even if he has to be the one to start it.

Another thing to those in uniform- you're my brother and my sister. You wear the uniform. I may have worn mine over thirty years ago and yours may be fresh on your back but that makes us family. I trust each and everyone of you guys to do the right thing and you can have my back any ol' day. That is NOT in question.

Everyone who reads this needs to get their feet firmly on the ground and look to see what assets the bad guys have and how they will most likely use them. You also need to spot BS when you see it like this (see it here: data4science.net...). This guy probably falls under the heading of "useful idot" but anyway it breaks if you believe this bilge and think you'll make your stand in the suburbs God help you and you deserve what you get.

Get ready everybody it won't be long now.

Semper Fi!

[edit on 28-7-2009 by CmdrZero]

[edit on 28-7-2009 by CmdrZero]

[edit on 28-7-2009 by CmdrZero]

[edit on 28-7-2009 by CmdrZero]

I'll just say this-

If the time ever comes that our government decides to fully move on the citizens of the United States (as opposed to the behind-the-curtain way they are doing it now) our military will be the only defense for most of us.

I'm fully confident that they will do the right thing. The vast majority, anyway. Most soldiers are intelligent and brave people. Most joined to protect freedom and the people of this country. I don't think they'll let us down when the other shoe drops.

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by The Soothsayer

 

I absolutely agree, of course if people started firing on our military you fire back, that happens anywhere. I guess my question is more to the point of, if the American people were rising up against the government because of tyranny in DC, and revolt against it was at hand.......do you think the Military would support the people of the united states, or continue to protect the politicians and government officials that brought it about?

You know as well as i do , that if the American people started to rise up, and defy the government out of discontent, much like what happened in Iran, would we military and former military JOIN the coupe , or do you think they would pull what the military force in Iran did, and turn on its people?

I guess thats more along the lines im referring to, I hope this makes it clear as mud! lol

The situation you are submitting is a precarious one at best. While under current law our military is not allowed to deploy combat missions on home soil, should there be an uprising of the People, you can bet the govt. would deploy them, legal or not. Their grounds would be the "all enemies, foreign and domestic" clause, trust me. And let us not forget Kent State.

As ex-military (USNMCB 133), I personally would never have followed any orders to fire upon US citizens. To my knowledge, I did not serve with anyone that would. My oldest son just got out of the US Navy, and I know he would not have.

No one can speak for the current military members but themselves. Let us hope that in all situations, cool heads will prevail.

I truly believe that if it came down to US military against US civilians, the gov would be SOL. 99.9% of US soldiers have family of some sort, and when the SHTF, they will want to be home protecting there loved ones from the crazy's in the world. I know thats where ill be.

I'm ex military, Air National guard. Not really much considered as far as VA awards or anything, but I did my time. I enjoyed it while I was in. Since i'm from an AF standpoint, for the most part No, soldiers will not turn on thier own people. However, if most of the guards and reserves are overseas, like alot of them are right now...who exactly is going to be here to tuern on our own? Granted there are still plenty of military people here still...but the vast majority of our massive army are either deployed or in trainng to be deployed. It's the cops....and just watch an episode of cops, not the early episodes, there they tried to show the older policemen and women...they were human, but the later episodes ,mostly showed the typical rookie ready and willin to find the first fight they could find..harassing everyone they set their sights on etc. I have no fear fo the armed forces for the most part, they are absent.....

You guys are over-simplifying the scenario.

OP and other non-military personnel need to consider above all that the U.S. Military is NOT some megalithic organization and that it has a chain of command that can be broken anywhere from the lowest ranking private to the highest ranking general, chiefs of staff, congress, etc...

The Military is built from the top down of thousands upon thousands of aggregate units and platoons, each with their own service loyalties, division loyalties, company loyalties, unit loyalties, etc... etc... to personal loyalties and even string, irrational ideals.

If TSHTF as the OP says, there will be *at least* a division of two: one with the government and one against it, as in the civil war.

Also consider that during those days, we still did mostly conventional warfare. Today we have spec ops and highly trained, highly specific units each with their own abilities.

Without a SINGLE DOUBT, the military would turn on it's own, and turn on the citizens that were not on their own side. The make-believe unification that you imagine simply would not exist any longer and the idea of "those people "being "citizens" would not exist - they would be traitors to either side.

So, in the end, there would be no "turning on your own" it would simply exist the perception, from both sides, that "our own turned on us!"

DHS reporting in here.
Personally, I would never turn my gun on a civilian, unless there is evidence pointing out they are terrorists, armed, and my life is in danger.
The question I lose sleep over though is; when does it stop being terrorism against America and become patriotism for America?
Under today's laws, the patriots during the revolutionary war would be deemed terrorists.
I hope I never get that order.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by AmericanPatriot_ar15


I'm sorry....

but I think if there was some metaphorical gun pointed at your spouse's and children's heads, you'd shoot whoever the hell they pointed at for you to shoot.

Talk is talk, when the chips are down, real people sacrifice for their ideals. I have a hard time believing there are that many people out there that would let their spouse and children die to protect the constitution of the U.S.A.

And that, of course, is where all of this fails. Where all the espousing of bravery, courage, honor and respect collapse like a house of Cards.

And for you who think you COULD make the hard decision; how many of your comrades do you think WOULD?

When the SHTF,it won't be the military wasting civilians,it will be civilians wasting civilians.

Most out here are scared #less,and when chaos breaks out,they will shoot anything that moves.

They will steal their neighbors tomatoes,and ammo,and everything they can get their grubby little hands on.

There will be racial clashes,and gang wars for territory.


When that goes on for long enough,the military will get involved and make an example to scare the sheep back into their pen,and those spreading mayhem will be the target of the military.

Anyone at all will be a target,and I guarantee you that they will fire on you, after they watch a few of their bros get smoked trying to do it the reasonable way.

These guys will fire on you because they are afraid for their own lives,in that they will feel threatened by the civilians with weapons,and then they will follow orders to keep from being shot on the spot for disobeying orders,or sit in prison for years.

The Constitution will be the last thing on their selfish little minds.

After all,they are just americans...we have become way too soft,all of us..

Then they will come and get your guns,and if you resist you will be killed.

I am ex-military,things change when you are the one about to drop your fluids on the ground,not for me,but I am much older than these people who grew up playing grand theft auto........

The morals are different now.

Like they aren't there.

The brainwashing is so subtle that the troops don't even realise they are not thinking for themselves until it is too late.

Really!,I have seen it.