CALLING ALL MILITARY! Former and current!

I am also ex military ... first, seconded into the South African apartheid army and then joined permanent force in the air force. We were told to fight against the ANC and that is what we did. Why? Because we were brainwashed into believing that these people were our enemy and that they should be stopped at all costs ... I'm sure you've heard or read about some of the atrocities that were committed by the SA defense forces (sure they - the ANC - planted bombs and terrorized the South African public - or did they?) - but the bottom line was, we were fighting against people who today are in power in South Africa.

Did I take up arms against my fellow citizen? ... At the time and at age 19 or 20 it didn't seem like it ... but today a lot of the commanders of the 'enemy' forces we fought against, are in powerful positions of government ... soldiers we fought against probably live next door to me ... so I guess, technically, I did exactly that ... I took up arms against my fellow citizen and didn't even fully comprehend what I was doing.

Of course, as I matured a little, I realized what was going on and got out about 4 years into the "game".

So ... I think its very hard to say if a soldier will turn on his fellow citizen ... it all depends on what BS story the powers that be sell them to convince them that they are dong the "right thing" ... IMO soldiers can be and are easily manipulated into doing things they might later regret ... such is the nature of the military beast.

Answer to the OP:

No.

Nuff said.

reply to post by Psyagra


Well said. Maturity teaches us much. War solves nothing. War is HELL. War is always used for reasons not immediately evident to those called upon to serve by their evil masters.

i think a lot of people -many if not most - who join the army are brave and do so out of good motives - to defend those they love and to die if necessary to do so; which deserves a lot of respect from everyone. Which makes me quite angry to see people like this being used by leaders who are corrupt or use the army for unjust etc wars - when the people they are using are much better people than the leaders themselves.

Despite anyone's opinion that 'it wouldn't happen' I would guesstimate that about 20% or so of the armed forces would indeed follow an order to shoot on their fellow countrymen. There are those in the military that wouldn't of course, just as there are those that would. Once again, you can't generalize anything, including the military. Some people in the military are there for a reason, they just aren't that smart, educated, or have enough individuality to question orders. I would think there would even be some, that would do as they were told, but would regret it immediately. I would think it would run the gamut, just as humanity itself does. Do I think that the military of most civilized nations would fire on their own countrymen? My answer obviously has to be yes, and no.

Chrono

Originally posted by romanmel

Originally posted by pauldamo
what happens if they use foreign troops like the U.N. they don't care about another countries citizens.remember how they stood by in Bosnia and let all those young boys and men be murdered.they thought the U.N.would protect them.but no,they turned a blind eye.i know a bit off topic,but wasn't there a forum on here about foreign troops brought in to America to help police the American people,in case of possible future disturbances.

Exactly! Foreign troops that hate Americans are already here and training with law enforcement. They'll have no problem confiscating our weapons or gathering us up to send us to the FEMA camps for extermination, including our own military men who refuse direct orders.

Just like American troops are training people who they dont really like as well.
Politics is a tricky game. And special units is a tricky tool politicians like to use.

Do you know why special units cant talk about their special missions? Because its all about politics the public ain't suppose to know about.

reply to post by romanmel


I already answered the questions about the UN in previous posts on the thread, i think it pretty much speaks for itself! If anyone disagrees id love to hear your thoughts for sure

but please read through the thread before re posting questions as a lot have been addressed.

What gets me is the number of people who say "I dont care what you say the people in the military would do exactly as they are told" EVEN THOUGH people who currently ARE in the military or WERE in the military say the exact opposite.....what happen to deny ignorance?

It seems pretty clear to me that if the very people this thread is about are saying that they nor ANYONE they know in the military would do such a thing, then they probably know more about what they are talking about then people who have never had any military experience and are simply speculating.....

Well, either speculating or just cant bring themselves to listen to the whats being said pretty clearly.....i would like to hope that the hate for our own military doesnt go that deep

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


As I stated earlier, it is all about how you as a commander present the situation to your troups. Present it as anarchists attempting to overthrow the government and many may attack their own citizens. Of course they'll not attack without reason. But a reason can be manufactured that will be followed by 18-22 year old military men who don't have access to all the infomation they should have.

By the way, I AM an ex-Marine, and indeed I WAS brainwashed in bootcamp at the age of 18, in the mid 1960's. I have since recovered, thank you.


[edit on 28-7-2009 by romanmel]

Hmmm.... well even though I heard this during a FEMA message it is quite true and seems realistic.

The only troops that would do such a thing to another human being and listen to radical absurd orders are soldiers who are emotionally detached. We already have cops who get power trips to their head, what would make you think a blind militant would be any different? Of course this doesnt mean they are emotionally detached, just arrogant.

Of course I'm SURE the ones that are on these forums would never hurt another human being if it was for the power gain of the elite. I think former soldiers on the forums would have already thought about this and as that the second post to this thread mentioned, if its illegal then the soldier does not have to obey it.

Now if it does occur where the US troops have to go out and round up people for not obeying something then I personally think the troops wont think twice before doing so. Why do I say this? Well I am no soldier but I know that in order for this to be pulled off the public must be looked at like a threat, a enemy, a terrorist which the troops will be trained to think.

Like I said, I am not a part of the military and have no intention of doing so but I'm just giving my input. I hope I didnt come across as sounding like everythings hopeless.

Good post.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by Kadzait]

My father and Grandfather were servicemen. Both served twenty years or better in the armed forces...

And frankly? I don't trust the military. No, I think you guys in the military certainly believe what you do is right and that you are defending America and it's freedoms... but if there is a revolution, I sure as hell don't trust the military in the matter.

As someone had noted earlier, a great portion of the military have families. Families they want to protect and defend over anyone else... so if you can make them believe that their families, personally, are in danger then you've got them on your side.

Secondly, I hear soldiers talk a lot about how they are defending our freedoms and our liberties with their blood. I'm sure they believe this is true, especially with how freedoms and liberties are defined in our common day era.

What I don't think the military is fighting for is the freedom for people to Marry more than one Spouse, or to Marry a Spouse of the same gender.

They either think freedom is liberal or freedom is democrat, and whichever side, the other side is evil and destroying America. Same as every other Joe in the U.S.

I don't think Americans are fighting for the rights of convicted convicts to have the right to vote after they've served their time. I don't think anyone is fighting for people to have a JURY OF THEIR PEERS in a court of law, rather than a Jury of Perfect Strangers.

Americans aren't fighting and dying to preserve the Japanese age of Consent, but they ARE fighting for a Country that wants everyone to be a 21 year old virgin if they happen to be female.

Even people who don't live here.

The Soldiers are not fighting for Freedom. They are not dying for liberty. They are fighting and dying for the propaganda machine that has been fed to every single one of us.

I don't think Soldiers are stupid. At least no more or less than every other average person that falls below the 80th percentile, and while there are some fine Soldiers that rate above that...

Statistics is against them, because with or without training, you are subject to Belle's Curve... there's more Average minded people than there are exceptional minded people. It is true in the public, and it is true in the military.

And for that matter, the public doesn't know what Freedom is anymore either. People think Freedom is to be free to have pleasant and likeable things, to be surrounded by people with like ideas that don't offend or insult your sensibilities.

I don't see the public standing up for the racist, the bigot, the sexist. I see them tearing these kind of things down, which does nothing to get rid of them... it only makes it fester, seethe and become gangrenous just like any infection. Trying to hide society's ugliness is a surefire way to make sure it kills everyone.

Political Correctness must die. There needs to be more Heretics.

There needs to be less Armed Forces. There needs to be more Armed Public, and there needs to be more public officials dancing at the end of a gibbet.

Also speaking as a veteran of the Army, 82nd Airborne, I think a great many would.
Not out of some sadistic killer mindset though.

I think if it did hit the fan, they would see it as their duty to restore order and protect their country. Look at the Kent State killings after all. Governor Hayes ordered the National Guard to fire on protesters and four were killed.

So yeah... there would be some that would refuse, but being trained and conditioned to follow orders myself, I think most would go along with it, at least in the beginning.

First post...

I think it's safe to say that the majority of the population is going to throw up a resistance, or join one sooner or later when tyranny threatens earth and other human beings. Just think apocalyptic films.

What I'm afraid of, are the MKULTRA and other mind-control, chemtrail experiments that MIGHT be in existence, that no one knows about.

TPTB decides tomorrow will be the take over of the american race. They go to their secret locations and activate the mindcontrol, this propogates via TV screen brainwash, radio waves, or cellphone radiations or whatnot, and 50% of the populations are "awaken" or "controlled" to fight off the rest of the population that are throwing up resistances.

This is my own hypothesis. However if I were them, I'd do that, because there's no way I'll fight off the whole USA sheeps, as well as other sympathizing countries and groups by my own group of TPTB.

If they call in all military and police and say "Okay guy, tomorrow you'll start killing off civilians that won't succumb to our rules", how many military and police dude would mutiny? You wouldn't have to tell your military friends, their own conscience would do it naturally.

Major retired. I could not serve this country under the current and former administrations. To answer your question.....(YES!!!) a thousand times. I carry my .38 with me and I know its coming. These are tyrants of the worst kind, evil to the core. Locally sad to say, I have been able to find only one individual of like mind. The rest are speeples that seeming will do anything to maintain the "status quo". This nation has become the opposite of what it initially created. Freedom has become very fragil. I for one will NOT live without it. I AM WITH YOU!!!!!

Being current military I know that some carreer NCO's and Officers will likely do whatever the higher echelon tells them to do as long as they shroud it in something that sounds rightous.

The lower enlisted that only plans on doing their time or maybe a bit longer, likely will have nothing to do with anything that violates people's rights.

Personally I would deny carrying out orders that infringe on our rights, like the 2nd ammendant, 1st ammendant and basic human rights.

But veterans may have been desensitised in Iraq with pervasive urban ops, weapon confiscation, etc that they might do whatever their told even if it's on US soil.

Was army long-ago, and would stick with the people. The only country that's managed to really beat the US is the US. The US is a completely different scenario than Iraq/Afghanistan. If the military is stressed there, it would be almost unfathomable for it to be able to handle the population and territory of the US - from dense urban settings to sewers, mountains, swamps, forests, etc. A population with the greatest # of firearms per capita, that speaks the same languages that is technologically savvy. Many being former military, better trained overall than probably most of Iraq/Afghan insurgents, better supplied, able to blend in. Moreover, soldiers are tied not just with friends and neighbors, but relatives. Then there's the scope of operations...not isolated to one region, but everywhere - no vacations, constant, continuous - never knowing what the guy next to you is thinking.

In the other scenario of bringing in UN troops...essentially the same situation minus the relations. However, the psychological element of the SHTF in the US - if things are that bad there, how bad are things at home? There could be country-force swaps, but that would reduce the tolerance threshold for what Americans would put up with from foreign troops. They'd have less means of coping.

The government would have the initial advantage for about 1 week, internet would be shut down, phone companies shut down, major roads blocked - but I doubt the government could contain every town/city equally.

So, mainly - I think it is a question of how stupid the government wants to get. Government has a knack for making overly rosy projections about their ability to do anything and everything. That said, everything government does...actually does hurt. It would be one helluva horrific scenario - but government would lose on a level where anyone who is anyone would be evacuated to Europe. That may not necessarily be a good thing, however.

I would not turn on any-one and I am ex I left as did not beleive in the powers that were running the services.....
i would turn on the powers that are befor that day

reply to post by skycopilot

I believe TPTB have a way around it - Here in central FL many guardsmen are on their way to Afghanistan. I asked at one unit who would come in to take their place in an "emergency". They said elements from AL, GA, and NC were scheduled to arrive. However, since the admin. is sending an unusually high number of guard from all across the country to Afghanistan, there msut be another plan. A LEO this past weekend told me there are several thousands marines from S. America in Jacksonville, FL. I have since learned of NATO troops in New Mexico.

this is everything i was gonna say.

Originally posted by mikerussellus
I was in the Air Force for 10 years. Got out (busted my knee sky diving) and worked civilian for a few years, signed up with an (evil contractor) company where I now work with the Army (USAMMA). I go TDY regulary, both CONUS and overseas. Am getting ready for a little trip to Camp Cupcake soon (those who know, will understand).
This whole idea of troops turning on the people they swore to protect is nuts. The people who state this stuff are nuts. I can tell you that the people I work with are just like anyone else. We/They have just decided to honor their country by serving. Some people can't, some people won't.
No problem. It doesn't take away from the patriotism that those that I serve with, feel.

God bless ya'll.

Mike

Did my 20 in the USCG, retired in '91 and been working with the CG active duty ever since as a contractor. These are the ultra-patriot citizens of the highest caliber.

They all know the difference between a legal and an illegal order. The attitude is to save, protect and rescue in the Coast Guard not kill people and break their things like DOD components. (Love them through, gotta have 'em)

It is my opinion that CG members may be quicker to rule out illegal orders than others. They are a radical bunch of deep thinking, mostly conservatives always ready to take a chance.

Whilst the replies I have read have all been encouraging , the main concern I have ( I'm not in the military but I AM a concerned citizen of the UK), is that even over here in the UK as well as the US, the military INDIVIDUAL may have to NOT obey the order if he/ she deems it to be unjust or illegal , but the concern I have is that they may have to follow orders if threatened by TPTB , say " If you choose to not follow the orders given to you you may be arrested, lose your home, or your family " etc, kind of threats, and to be honest I can see them kind of demands being made.

When the Federal Government begins detaining people in the public and bringing them to labor camps we will be under a "national emergency." The Federal Government will hand all powers over to FEMA and NORTHCOM. If you choose to disobey you will be either thrown in a labor camp until your exhausted or you'll just be killed for treason.

Everyone who said they don't have to follow an illegal order against the constitution has another thing coming. When the Fed declares an "Emergency" or Martial Law the constitution is suspended. So how do you find it possible to disobey an order under the premise the order goes against the constitution when the constitution won't exist??

I'm sure MANY MANY MANY soldiers, when faced with death, will do what their told. The best chance would be the States forming legal militias or breaking off from the Union.

The 10th Amendment is void at this point. The States can't even fairly challenge the Fed because any legal case goes to the Supreme Court and we all know the Fed controls the court. Hell the President even hand picks the appointment.. Conflict of interest?

It's not by accident the system has grown into what it is. Things like the Federal Reserve and the Supreme Court are in place to make sure the Federal Government has and retains all the power.

[edit on 28-7-2009 by libertytoall]