Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape

Originally posted by Mindmelding A quick comment on my previous post: It is valid regardless of the validity of this current bit of news. I haven't checked to see what sort of substance is behind the current link but I will say that this sort of thing is not at all unheard of, it's a trend and is part of a larger darkness that covers public affairs. There is a pedophile network in modern society that permeates it at very levels and which slots into a larger control network commonly known as the NWO. This is the point I wanted to make, beyond a comment on the specific case.

I completely agree with the previous statement. The first time I read about this, I immediately thought about the Illuminati/NWO Luciferian Occult connection. Such as the Bohemian Grove and other satanic rituals.

And, of course Obama doesn't want this info out, because he's a part of it also. He's on the Council on Foreign Relations and not only that, he's relatedto the previous administration by blood.

Originally posted by lucid eyes
I guess its more important to call for the Destruction of America than to be asking for some evidence.

If my memory serves me correctly, the last time we asked that question we were given the 911 commission report.

Originally posted by lucid eyes

Originally posted by Mindmelding
It is valid regardless of the validity of this current bit of news.

So its true whether its true or not?

WTF?

Reread the post you're selectively quoting please, you clearly did not understand what I said right the first time.

I was making an abstract point about these types of incidents and just adding in the disclaimer that I'm not 100% sure the current case is valid. It is, however, hardly original so my points are still valid in the face of recorded history. Hope this clears it up for you.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Mindmelding]

Originally posted by lucid eyes
reply to post by whaaa

 

So its "guilty until proven innocent"?

And: How did boys get there in the first place? Who raped them and why?

I guess its more important to call for the Destruction of America than to be asking for some evidence.

You didn't answer my question. How far would those capable of these acts go.....www.antiwar.com...


and we here at ATS are also aware of your style of deflection...

Perhaps you should read this.....
www.abovetopsecret.com...

The Destruction of America will come from the inability to face the truth.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by whaaa]

My GOD - Some of you people make me want to VOMIT. Right now there is NO PROOF whatsoever that photos or videos of adults raping children at Abu Ghraib even exist.

What's going on here? Someone in office somewhere lights a match and blows it out and says "I smell smoke" and everyone panics. What's even more disgusting is the left media like Salon takes a story and runs with it when there is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE to back it up other than some guy named Seymour Hersh who makes a speech at the ACLU. So he says the Pentagon has a tape of it. You know what??? Before making such a HEINOUS accusation, you had better DAMNED WELL have a tape like this IN YOUR HAND and ready to show us. Otherwise you are perpetuating conjecture.

If you're truly a disgusting human being, then I urge you to go ahead and default to your absolute lowest common denominator and believe that these allegations are true - that our U.S. soldiers would do this. After all, remember that our soldiers aren't human beings themselves and they don't have families or feelings or emotions. The're just mindless machines programmed to kill and carry out evil acts. [Blatant Sarcasm off]

And even by chance if it were true then I GUARANTEE YOU that it it an isolated incident and the soldier or soldiers involved will be courtmartialed and prosecuted to the fullest extent of military law!!


[edit on 15-5-2009 by sos37]

i have the book called "the torture papers"

a very large book with detailed documentations, letters, oaths and stories from the prisoners, workers.. etc. it's disturbing how this incident received rapid response across the board. military, president, politicians, support groups.

this disturbs me because there are far more autrocies activites going on in the deep recesses of the intelligence / military communities in these black op programs. since it's all away from the public, no one cares... even those in power know about it. once the story starts to break with photos or some sort of other evidence, one has to wonder how big this one will be.

so, the book states that there was rape of a young boy. he could be heard screaming and crying.

some were tortured to make them denounce their God Allah.. and convert to Chrisianity... then tank Jesus for not being killed by their captures.

personally, i believe there were alot more deaths. i watched a video on this situation. those that were prosecuted were at the bottom of the stack. this situation should have gone up to the top. there were many groups going in and out of this facility. fbi, cia, dia, all were guilty of torture. there was also another group but it was i think referred to as una... unknown agency. how does that sound. another intelligence agency that is off the record... no one knows about it.

this agency also brought prisoners in and it was commanded that they not be processed. no names, no whereabouts... they didn't exist as far as the personnel were concerned.

what i am concerned about is the coverups that have and will continue to go on. if it weren't for the leak in photos, this too would have been covered over. the commander in charge at the time ordered that all videos/photos be destroyed. unfortunately for them, some were not.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by miasria]

reply to post by Maxmars

Maxmars, I agree with you completely. It's the torture apologists that I take issue with. If an injustice was committed I do not care about party affiliation. There must be a truth commission to look into this and put it to rest.

the book

the torture papers www.cambridge.org...

The Torture Papers document the so-called ‘torture memos’ and reports which US government officials wrote to prepare the way for, and to document, coercive interrogation and torture in Afghanistan, Guantanamo, and Abu Ghraib. These documents present for the first time a compilation of materials that prior to publication have existed only piecemeal in the public domain. The Bush Administration, concerned about the legality of harsh interrogation techniques, understood the need to establish a legally viable argument to justify such procedures. The memos and reports document the systematic attempt of the US Government to prepare the way for torture techniques and coercive interrogation practices, forbidden under international law, with the express intent of evading legal punishment in the aftermath of any discovery of these practices and policies.

Contents
1. Introduction Anthony Lewis; 2. From fear to torture Karen J. Greenberg; 3. The legal narrative Joshua L. Dratel; 4. Timeline; 5. Missing documents; 6. Biographical sketches; 7. Memoranda.

Prize Winner
Winner, 2005 Award for Excellence in Professional and Scholarly Publishing






Reviews
"The book is necessary, if grueling, reading for anyone interested in understanding these wartime prison abuses." -Register-Guard

"It will chill your bones." -Village Voice

"The Torture Papers: The Road to Abu Ghraib thoroughly documents repeated and shocking perversions of justice. The torture of prisoners became standard practice as the internationally accepted tenets of the Geneva Convention were bypassed and ignored. This is not a collection of complex legalese but pages where a clear episodic story unfolds free of bias and spin. The documents and their authors speak for themselves; key individuals approved torture as a coercive interrogation technique while others, namely Secretary of State Colin Powell, strongly opposed it. This is required reading for everyone concerned with fairness, justice, and difficult choices made under the pressures of our post 9/11 world." -Nadine Strossen, President, American Civil Liberties Union

"The Torture Papers may well be the most important and damning set of documents exposing U.S. government lawlessness ever published. Each page tells the story of U.S. leaders consciously willing to ignore the fundamental protections that guarantee all of us our humanity. I fear for our future. Read these pages and weep for our country, the rule of law and victims of torture everywhere." -Michael Ratner, President, Center for Constitutional Rights

"The minutely detailed chronological narrative embodied in this volume..possesses an awful and powerful cumulative weight.[...]The book is necessary, if grueling, reading for anyone interested in understanding the back story to those terrible photos from Saddam Hussein's former prison, and abuses at other American detention facilities." -New York Times Book Review

"This vitally important book reminds us that the pursuit of intelligence by "unorthodox" means is a dangerous and slippery slope." - Booklist (starred review)

"This is a commendable, timely, and useful collection of key documents. The material goes far in helping us to understand the logic and advice that led to Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib. From awful advice spring awful events." - Philippe Sands QC is a practising barrister in the Matrix Chambers and a professor of international law at University College London. He is the author of Lawless World: America and the Making and Breaking of Global Rules.

"Not since the Pentagon Papers have we seen such an important set of classified documents as the memoranda, reports and orders on detention and interrogation that began emerging into public view in the United States. Cambridge University Press is serving an important need in providing these papers in one authoritative and well-organized collection." - Mary Ellen O'Connell, William B. Saxbe Designated Professor of Law & Fellow of the Mershon Center for International Security, The Ohio State University

"With this superb collection of documents, we can begin to see the contours of our new post 9-11 world: from the reinterpretation of laws and treaties that once seemed immutable, to the pressure on soldiers and CIA officers in the field to set aside old rules in the hunt for useable intelligence. The papers speak for themselves and readers can decide whether the trade-offs are worth it or not." - Dana Priest, National Security Reporter, The Washington Post.

" The Torture Papers then, is no historical artifact. It's why we do what we're (still) doing. It's a monument to denial, arrogance and hypocrisy. It's why they hate us. " - Ted Rall, San Diego Union-Tribune

"Let us hope this book will have a wide readership and will embolden our supine mass media to engage in more research and expose the machinations of the far-right Republicans and their allies." -Political Affairs, Thomas Riggins

"...this should interest the new secretary of state, Hillary Rodham Clinton, the indispensable 1,249-page thoroughly documented "The Torture Papers: The Road to Abu Ghraib" (Cambridge University Press) adds that our State Department Country Reports on Human Rights Practices "have expressly characterized as 'torture' or 'other abuse' tying detainees in painful positions; incommunicado detention; depriving detainees of sleep ... long periods of imprisonment in darkened rooms ... and instilling detainees with the false belief that they are about to be killed."
--Nat Hentoff, WorldNetDaily Commentary



[edit on 15-5-2009 by miasria]

reply to post by sos37


You know with all the BS that's been going on in the world. I don't discount the possibility of this story not happening.
I've seen the previously released pics on the net. Somethign like this could happen.

There is far more going on here than meets the eye. Something very strange is being done in Iraq. My guess is that there are still occultist circles that are engaged in human sacrifices, and these situations feed into some sort of satanical dark religion.

Join the dark side luke... sort of thing going on. They're psychopaths, it's not above them. Them being a significant portion of hierarchical leaders.

The image linked can be seen on google earth too, to the north east of Bagdad city center. You can't miss it.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Mindmelding]

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by sos37

 

You know with all the BS that's been going on in the world. I don't discount the possibility of this story not happening.
I've seen the previously released pics on the net. Somethign like this could happen.

COULD happen? COULD HAPPEN!!!!???? You know what? The Pleadiean mother ship COULD assume orbit around Earth this afternoon. The cure for cancer COULD be found this weekend, by accident. Barack Obama COULD decide that he's going to raise everyone's taxes tomorrow and Nancy Pelosi COULD decide to plead guilty to knowing about waterboarding and endorsing it.

COULD HAPPEN!?

Yeah - Any number of things COULD HAPPEN. I'm not interested in what COULD HAVE HAPPENED - I want FACT, not heresay, not COULD HAVEs, not SHOULD HAVEs, not MIGHT HAVEs, I want verifiable DID HAPPENs!!!

We're talking about CHILDREN here. Freaking CHILDREN! They are the most innocent of all in this world and I won't stand by while you and everyone else on here make up a bunch of FANTASIES about what some hack says the Pentagon has a record of. If you're going to make a claim of this nature, you had better PROVE IT.

Is this site about denying ignorance or about perpetrating it???

[edit on 15-5-2009 by sos37]

reply to post by Mindmelding


If you look at these stories its like the montauk boys prgram kind of thing. Just look it up. Those kids where raped and tortured to destroy them.

Who knows if this story is true, but if it is, it would not surprise us would it.

Just look uop the montauk boys program which sounds familiar to this.

Originally posted by sos37
My GOD - Some of you people make me want to VOMIT. Right now there is NO PROOF whatsoever that photos or videos of adults raping children at Abu Ghraib even exist.

I find the allegations themselves appalling.

I would rather be appalled at lies, than nonchalant or even giving of the benefit of a doubt while our soldiers are torturing, raping and killing totally helpless people.

What would be truly disgusting is if all this and much worse were taking place, and you're here defending the Nazis.

reply to post by sos37


I feel ya man. My stomach is churning at this news.

I want confirmation myself. I'd like for this not to be real. Because the alternative means that we have some sick freaks doing things that no christian nation would ever condone.

Now we wait and see what turns up on the net.

its quite simple, the world and the american public NEED to know that their government is no different then every other world power's government whose ever been on earth and that is we will stop at nothing to get what we want how we want it and will stop at nothing to get it. we need to stop being the american empire.

We know that military personnel can be hypnotized/brainwashed into doing anything, anything at all that their commanders want done. Who knows that groups of personnel weren't sequestered in brainwashing sessions to commit these atrocities? I mean I have to think that is the only way they could get them to do it.

Originally posted by sos37
If you're truly a disgusting human being, then I urge you to go ahead and default to your absolute lowest common denominator and believe that these allegations are true - that our U.S. soldiers would do this.
[edit on 15-5-2009 by sos37]

I am not saying it is true or not true; however, the pictures that already exist and that the administration has acknowledged suggest that you haven't got a clue yourself and perhaps it may be you who is the "lowest common denominator" as you coined it.

I don't know about you or anyone else here, but when I see pictures where soldiers has stripped prisoners naked and made them stick their face in another man's private parts and then goes even further as to pose with a big fat smile on their face in the picture, at this point, I do not have a difficult time believing that these same sick sub humans could do what has been suggested.

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by sos37

 

I want confirmation myself. I'd like for this not to be real. Because the alternative means that we have some sick freaks doing things that no christian nation would ever condone.

were a nation full of sodomizing priests, child porn pastors and polygamists... im not so sure we wouldnt...

Originally posted by Bombeni
We know that military personnel can be hypnotized/brainwashed into doing anything, anything at all that their commanders want done. Who knows that groups of personnel weren't sequestered in brainwashing sessions to commit these atrocities? I mean I have to think that is the only way they could get them to do it.

I wouldn't use the term brainwashing here. I see it as bored rednecks in a desert with nothing better to do than a)torture. b)watch Iraqis die. c)kill Iraqis. d)arrest Iraqis or e)get blown up.

That pretty much sums up this entire war.

Originally posted by miasriapersonally, i believe there were alot more deaths. i watched a video on this situation. those that were prosecuted were at the bottom of the stack. this situation should have gone up to the top. there were many groups going in and out of this facility. fbi, cia, dia, all were guilty of torture.

***there was also another group but it was i think referred to as una... unknown agency. *****

how does that sound. another intelligence agency that is off the record... no one knows about it. [edit on 15-5-2009 by miasria]

i just researched this on the wiki cia site...."Sometimes, the CIA is referred to euphemistically in government and military parlance as Other Government Agencies (OGA), particularly when its operations in a particular area are an open secret. Other terms include The Company and The Agency...."