Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape

Originally posted by TheCoffinman

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by sos37

 

I want confirmation myself. I'd like for this not to be real. Because the alternative means that we have some sick freaks doing things that no christian nation would ever condone.

were a nation full of sodomizing priests, child porn pastors and polygamists... im not so sure we wouldnt...

Poligamy and Polyandry are, at least in my book, orders of magnitude away from pedophilia. What's the big difference in having a few wives from just regularly sleeping around? Yet the latter is a stood the former is somehow a criminal? Get a grip on reality here. I think you're throwing the net a bit too wide on that one.

Originally posted by sos37
Barack Obama COULD decide that he's going to raise everyone's taxes tomorrow.

Actually I think he already did that about a month ago. Or at the very least made the smokers pay for the bailouts through taxation.

Originally posted by TheCoffinman

Originally posted by grey580
reply to post by sos37

 

I want confirmation myself. I'd like for this not to be real. Because the alternative means that we have some sick freaks doing things that no christian nation would ever condone.

were a nation full of sodomizing priests, child porn pastors and polygamists... im not so sure we wouldnt...

Wasn't there a political party in the Netherlands that supported Pedos? And how about that story in Saudi Arabia where the man was allowed to marry that young young young girl but wasn't allowed to have sex with her..but sodomy was quite ok!

Yes, we live in a nation of child molesters. I'm pretty certain that every country has those

reply to post by bsbray11


Defending the NAZIS? You mean our troops? So let me ask you this, and I even mentioned this in my first post - if the allegations are true and they prove to be the actions of just a few soldiers or ONE soldier, that makes all of them Nazis as far as your concerned? That tells me you have issues if you really believe that.

I'm not going to defend anyone that's guilty of utterly detestable behavior like raping a child - I'm in favor of the death penalty for individuals who cross that line.

But you know what? I'm also not ready to serve up the heads of innocent men and women just because some politician makes a "claim". If you're going to ruin someone's reputation, you had better be ready to prove it.

That's the difference between you and I - I demand truth in this case and you seem ready to accept the worst simply because it's a possibility.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by sos37]

reply to post by grey580


You know, it would be just as productive to examine this from the point of view that it is a lie.

Who would have the means, motive, and opportunity to spread such a lie?

Why do it? If there is evidence, they will surely be proven wrong.

If there is no evidence, then the fabrication itself becomes suspect at the source.

While reporters (Pulitzer Prize-winning or otherwise) are known to be shamelessly biased at times, a fabrication of this magnitude is tantamount to suicide (in a figurative, and potentially literal sense.)

People are being chided and vilified for even entertaining the notion that this could be real.

Still think there should be no release of the evidence? Really? Wouldn't you want our troops to be exonerated of this allegation? Or do you fear it may be true?

We don't resolve these questions in threads on ATS. But we certainly do examine them, despite the discomfort it gives people who would rather we remain silent, and wait for the authorities to tell us what happened.

Of course, that's assuming they do tell us what happened.

But they are clearly indicating that they think they know best about what facts should and shouldn't be divulged.

My personal opinion is the reasoning behind the secrecy is weak, and populist tripe. If any American soldier was even present at the time of the alleged criminal activity, they are obliged by their oaths to have done something about it. Maybe this is it.

Only the biased and extreme-minded ideologues deal in the absolute transference of guilt to an entire nation. We needn't worry about them. They blame America for everything anyway.

Originally posted by sos37
Defending the NAZIS? You mean our troops?

Ever heard that patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel? Yes our troops, but they shouldn't be if they're behaving no different than the SS did in Nazi Germany.

if the allegations are true and they prove to be the actions of just a few soldiers or ONE soldier, that makes all of them Nazis as far as your concerned?

If it were only one soldier raping and killing people, don't you think they would have been sent home by now? Be realistic. They were taking pictures of this stuff with smiles on their faces.

You can keep it comfortably in the back of your mind as just a "possibility" if it suits you so. One of our generals during WW2 rounded up a lot of German civilians and made them clean out the concentration camps themselves and see what their authorities had been doing to people. I just think it's a shame that all of this is happening overseas so people like you will never get that opportunity (or will you?).

reply to post by Maxmars


I'm not trying to villify anyone entertaining the notion that the allegations are true, because weighing the facts is part of the thought process. But dammit when you make allegations like this, even if they are proven false we all know the damage is done and that previous reputation level is never fully regained. It's the old cliche - "where there's smoke, there's fire".

I'm saying keep an open mind and don't jump to the conclusion that our soldiers are capable of such a reprehensible act just because of all the horrors we've seen courtesy of the media. And also remember that soldiers are people, too, with families.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by sos37]

reply to post by bsbray11


Whose to say that if it was the act of one or even ten soldiers doing this that they ARE still serving in the military? Assuming this did happen and U.S. troop(s) were involved, how do you know they are still on active duty? We've not been given the names of anyone involved. Perhaps they've been quietly courtmartialed and imprisoned over this offense and the DoD has chosen to suppress the matter because of the sensitive nature of the issue.

That would NOT indicate a conspiracy to support the rape and torture of children amongst high command. It would indicate that they chose not to release information on the matter due to its sensitive nature and the fact that the actions by a few sub-human beings would endanger the efforts of ALL of our U.S. troops worldwide because of people like you - people who can't separate the actions of a few bad people from the actions of the majority who are trying to do the greater good in this world.

reply to post by sos37


Sorry, I didn't mean to cast you in a bad light. In fact, I strongly encourage the disbelief because, all things considered, I don't want this to be true.

I am only fearful that the same reasoning that might make someone think, "this is just more anti-America garbage" would cause them to be blind to the crime. We can no longer afford to let the world think we are monsters.

And if there are monsters among us, we can no longer afford to allow the world to see us protect them from the justice they deserve.

All I am saying is investigate it earnestly, comprehensively, and transparently.

If it happened we have some real work to do to make amends (even though that's not really possible from the perspective of the youth allegedly sodomized). If it happened, we need to show the world that we will not - as a nation - play that stupid PR game that politicians are famous for. We will execute justice as it is meant to executed, blindly, consistently, and without hesitation.

If it didn't happen, we need to see to it that those who hatched this story, and propagated it, are confronted directly, publicly, and with the same diligence.

Either way, in my opinion, the excuse of 'it would be too damaging to release' or 'people will retaliate against us' is vacuous and shallow. Facts are what they are. The perpetrators of whichever crime, should NOT be given the freedom to disregard it.

my point is simply this... were not the good guys you grow up thinkin we are. we are raping murdering sodomites like every other savage out there.

Originally posted by sos37
Whose to say that if it was the act of one or even ten soldiers doing this that they ARE still serving in the military?

That's a good question. Are you ready to get an answer? Don't you think that's something we might want to know?

reply to post by TheCoffinman


I actually agree with you, all human beings regardless of race or nationality have the capability within to be murders, rapists and pedophiles. Human have conducted themselves in this manner in every war ever fought. I don't know why it is this way, but I do know that the very angels and demons we read of in all religions are none other than us.

Anyways, this story and others of late test my faith in humanity and whether we are worth salvation or not. We get what we deserved on the individual and on the mass scale.

btw I have no doubt this happened in some form of the other, with or without approval, the fact that it is on camera and no one wants to officially talks about it, speaks volumes about the severity of our inhumanity. Anyone involved in these atrocities, Iraqi or American should be held accountable and be prosecuted for their crimes.

So now we cover up the crime of soldiers that rape small children? Well I can't say I'm surprised because the real reason we went to Iraq was a lie from the get go. We had complete control of Saddams northern airspace and his southern airspace. Saddam could not use the restroom in the morining without us knowing what he had eaten the night before and they told us over and over that mushroom cloud this, chemical weapons that. And now even today our soldiers are over their raping their children. No I'm not surprised just disgusted.

reply to post by kenton1234


Your post went to like 4 different directions. What's your point?

This has probably been posted before.

I have a feeling that this wasn't totally our fault.
And here's why.

reply to post by TheCoffinman

were a nation "full" of sodomizing priests, child porn pastors and polygamists... im not so sure we wouldnt...

FULL?

FULL of?

OH PLEASE!!! I take issue with that statement,

We are not a a nation full of sodomizing priests, child porn pastors and polygamists...

It is statements like these that make people hate the "great satan" America.





[edit on 123131p://bFriday2009 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by kenton1234
So now we cover up the crime of soldiers that rape small children? Well I can't say I'm surprised because the real reason we went to Iraq was a lie from the get go. We had complete control of Saddams northern airspace and his southern airspace. Saddam could not use the restroom in the morining without us knowing what he had eaten the night before and they told us over and over that mushroom cloud this, chemical weapons that. And now even today our soldiers are over their raping their children. No I'm not surprised just disgusted.

Personally I "got" your post quite well. Iraq invasion was the beginning of sorrows. Our leaders knew Saddam was not a threat yet they cajoled the Amer public into this frenzied quest for blood. Evil evil evil. And this is a broken record for sure but why and how did they escape prosecution? Could it be the prosecutors are just as evil? We need to re remind ourselves once in awhile of how this evil all began. And the crimes leveled in this thread could very well go along with the criminal masterminds behind the whole ugly picture.

I know that 911 tipped it off, but the parody of that whole stinking thing is they planned that too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a by-line on this topic which is pretty unpalatable already,
A work mates cousin has just returned to the UK from iraq with tales of war that would really make you vomit.
The worst of these is a british squady who started to question the ethics and reason of the war.
The man was stripped naked,tied hands and knees,and made to kneel on the floor,he was then violated with a broom handle by 5 of his fellow british soldiers,this was around christmas time 2008,and he has'nt spoken to anybody since.
He's home now and i can only hope he makes a complaint,but it doesn't seem likely.
If serving officers are capable of doing this to to there own comrades, then who knows what they can do to the 'enemy'

Originally posted by grey580
This has probably been posted before.

I have a feeling that this wasn't totally our fault.
And here's why.

A guard was Jewish.


....oh no.

And don't try to link it to Israel. FFS

[edit on 15-5-2009 by GorehoundLarry]

If this is true.. if rape and murder, especially of children, occurred.. then I support and actually expect a full Crimes Against Humanity trial for the entire Bush administration..

Simply disgusting, I certainly hope these are lies, or exaggerations..