Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape

reply to post by falcon


The Pentagon has nothing to fear. Our political leaders, the think-tanks that 'guide' them, and the ideologues who contrived this entire scenario do.

Soldiers are thrust into situations over which they have no control. It is the nature of military service.

But those who dare to take on the mantle of leadership have gotten away with unaccountability for far too long.

Let's not assume it was U.S. Soldiers sodomizing child prisoners. It may have been, but even more likely they have have thrown the kids in with rough adult populations so they COULD be sodomized.

I do recall them threatening one prisoner to get information, they had his 12 year old son too, and they told the father if he did not spill they would toss the kid into the prison to be raped.

I honestly rather doubt if most soldiers would be comfortable having their buddies video taping them while they rape a male child (that is a little gay ya know?). But I could surely see them laughing as they watched someone else do the raping.

If we do nothing about this our children will be next. You can bank on it. History is my witness. What governments are allowed to do to others soon is visited upon their own people.

It's time to stand together for liberty and the rule of law. We must be able to agree with those basic things as Americans, surely. Let's not become divided over the details - we can debate them when we have regained our freedom, but let us relentlessly pursue LIBERTY and a return to the CONSTITUTION.

Or else go laughing to the gallows like fools.

reply to post by Smack


It already happens here. There are too many stories of police authority abuse which end in rape (or begin with it).

But it also happens everywhere else. Regardless of how noble and proper the nation thinks itself to be, we are all the same. And our so-called 'leaders' are just people, not special, not holy, not above the cut, they are just people.

But don't let them know you are aware of that fact..., they hate it.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Let's not assume it was U.S. Soldiers sodomizing child prisoners. It may have been, but even more likely they have have thrown the kids in with rough adult populations so they COULD be sodomized.

I do recall them threatening one prisoner to get information, they had his 12 year old son too, and they told the father if he did not spill they would toss the kid into the prison to be raped.

I honestly rather doubt if most soldiers would be comfortable having their buddies video taping them while they rape a male child (that is a little gay ya know?). But I could surely see them laughing as they watched someone else do the raping.

Hey Sonya! It's nice to see you again.

I'd just like to say I 100% agree with you. There are reports that claim US soldiers FORCED Iraqi prisoners to engage in sexual activity with each other.

So yeah, our precious American troops may be or may not be guilty of raping little Mohammad, but there was some forced sex going on.

Originally posted by Sonya610
I honestly rather doubt if most soldiers would be comfortable having their buddies video taping them while they rape a male child (that is a little gay ya know?). But I could surely see them laughing as they watched someone else do the raping.

How much further is videoing a rape of a child than this......



www.antiwar.com...

Admittedly, I've only read the first post partially and not the remainder of the thread, so if what I have to say is inaccurate or redundant, please forgive me.

These have to be released in court. I don't care if they are made public or not, but there has to be criminal trials, and the charges will reflect what is on the tapes, which will be good enough for the public.

There are too many accusations from human right's activists and normal citizens about the crimes of the American government and it's soldiers to keep this secret.

If this sort of thing was happening there, everyone involved or who knew about it needs to be brought to justice, these are the most heinous and disgusting crimes you can commit against another human being. If this is how the western world decides to treat other members of the human race, why do we want to save it from terrorists?

What is there to save? We are a depraved society undeserving of the life we live. Let us lose this war if we are going to hide our crimes. We don't deserve the authority we enjoy.

If American heads roll for these things, former president Bush, Dick CHeney and the rest included, then we can still hold our heads high. If we allow this to go unpunished, we are despicable.

As you can see, I'm thoroughly disgusted.

Originally posted by whaaa

Originally posted by Sonya610
I honestly rather doubt if most soldiers would be comfortable having their buddies video taping them while they rape a male child (that is a little gay ya know?). But I could surely see them laughing as they watched someone else do the raping.

How much further is videoing a rape of a child than this......



www.antiwar.com...

Was that a serious statement?

Much, much further.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
I do wonder why Obama would go so far to protect the last administration, other than if these photos where to be release the world would demand justice, and that justice would come at the end of a rope!

I guess these children were terrorist and we should just ignore this?

If this is true then President Obama is not protecting the last administration.

He is protecting Soldiers and American citizens abroad from suffering the inevitable backlash...as well as potentially Americans at home.

I am conflicted on this. I believe in the power of truth...but if it costs innocent lives? Creates a backlash in the Arabic community that makes the past few years look like a love-fest?

In a fantasy world I would want Obama to not release the photos while at the same time (if these things happened) asking literally for the heads (or other anatomy) of any CIA contractors that tortured and sodomized children to be delivered to the oval office.

Is it true? I don't want to think so,but it was a crazy time immediately post 911 and there was a climate of "anything goes" and "by all means neccessary" within the spook world with every CIA contractor called into service despite their reputation or record. These guys were given carte blanche to do whatever they thought neccessary....so for me...maybe it happened, but I hope not.

So what's worse than two priests fighting over a little boy?

Two American soldiers getting blown (up) for a little boy.


But ya. Obama was going to show these photos but decided against it. Is this really that surprising?

reply to post by maybereal11


No conflict for me.

Charge those involved and release the evidence to the courts.

Let the heads fall where they may, the higher up the ladder it goes the better. There is no excuse, ever, for those kinds of actions.


For the overly sensitive, my next paragraph is going to make some controversial statements of comparison. Reader discretion is advised.

Are Jews okay to rape german children? Is it okay for the Japanese to rape American children? What makes you so arrogant to even consider for a second that 9-11-01 gives Americans any right to rape Iraqi children?!

Straighten out your priorities, there is no excusing this. I can't even find a word that illustrates the depravity of these incidents. no excuses and no sympathy until justice is rendered.

reply to post by Enrikez


You either did not read my post or you misinterpreted it.

I never said there was an excuse for this, nor did I say it was Ok in any way, shape or form.

I in fact said (if this happened) that those that committed the acts should pay with their lives.

I take serious offense that you implied I condone or excuse such actions.

As far as releasing the photos...
When you state.."release the photos and let the chips fall where they may"...do you understand that those "chips" could fall upon innocent Americans? Perhaps your home town? That the release of these photos (again - if true) would without doubt inspire and rally terrorist organizations across the globe to commit horrific attrocities upon American Soldiers and innocent Americans alike? That Al Quada's recruitment efforts which are now strained would become effortless?...are those the "chips" you are talking about?

It is easy to call for Cheney's head...but is it worth it if it might cost the lives of thousands of innocent Americans in the doing? If the release of the photos inspire another attack..perhaps larger than 9-11?

And more to the point, Cheney answering for any wrongdoing does not hinge on the public release of these photos. I don't think the photos show Cheney hunched over beaten, naked prisoners giving a thumbs up!

His guilt can be demonstrated in testimony and documentation regarding what he authorized, not in the releasing of photo's of soldiers and CIA contractors doing horrific things...

[edit on 15-5-2009 by maybereal11]

Just a thought, do you think this has anything to do with the high suicide rate among our military? Either those not able to live with what they have done or maybe to hush a potential whistle blower.

Originally posted by lucid eyes
What a bunch of lunatics here....

Not a shred of evidence is posted for this being true, the link provided by the OP Leads nowhere, no perpetrators are pointed out and dozens of lemmings are shouting that children WERE raped and calling for america to be destroyed.

WHAT IF this is not true?

[edit on 15-5-2009 by lucid eyes]

No problem with the article from two computers here!

On the first site-pass page at Salon.com you just click the red box with the words: 'Enter Salon' in the right top corner.

I also posted testimonies from the site Washington Post Media regarding some rape case in Abu Ghraib here on this thread.

There are also a link to CBS from 2004 that wrote the same, but this article has also been edited since yesterday - strange? wonder why?

I could have giving you more links from news outlets yesterday writing the same as the article with Seymore Hersh - but these links gets taken down or are now edited soo fast - theres no point posting them.

They are now cleaning up and editing articles from 2004 as we speak!

Soo use your brain and play net detective for a while, and I'm sure you're up with some juicy material.

The information needs to get out so TPTB can't swipe it under the rug by deleting articles this fast, like bugs bunny on crack!

Check out the ACLU site and read all the documents and inform yourself.

They want to deny you your right to know about this since TPTB and B.O reversed the earlier decision to bring it out in the light with ACLU.

They are trying to pull a fast one on you, to deny you to read information that every free thinking human-being should be able to read.

The people in higher places who are responsable for all this belongs in jail and should be tried for war crimes.

Not to defend, but just to keep things in perspective. I really dislike double standards, especially when there's such a strong anti-military movement going on. Watch these videos and tell me who the monsters are again?











There are way too many things that don't add up in my mind, IF all the accusations are true. Because there are such low numbers of gays in the military, I find it highly suspect that so many "questionable" soldiers ended up at the same place, at the same time, agreeing to do the same things. No straight and honest man that I know could be coerced into sodomy or acts of pedophilia, and if you are one that could, please speak up....more than that, convicted pedophiles can't get into the military, and they aren't just born overnight because someone ordered them to. Not happening in my mind! Are any of you actually THINKING about the logic of this?

I'm going somewhere with this, so follow me for a moment.

Does anyone think it's an accident that such drastic oversight was allowed to happen with the selection of the personnel at Abu Graib? They weren't officers. Some were even low-ranking NCO's. Excuse me, but since when do we entrust interrogations and foreign prisoners to the least qualified of our military? This was no accident, IF it is true! Pay close attention to the wording in this next video....CIA, "orders to make their lives hell", and "suing two American companies"....this is starting to sound like another setup if you ask me, and the CIA is behind it, NOT the military. I wouldn't put it past the CIA to have personally hand picked these already shady individuals, knowing full well they would carry out the orders they were given. Please tell me that all you conspiracy theorists aren't buying these news reports without so much of a question or a raised flag. You're not thinking about the logic of this, and I'd be happy to point out more glaring flaws if you'd like.

reply to post by Walkswithfish


As I stated this was reported by MSNBC in 2004 in the above linked post you will find links and quotes which MSNBC reported as coming from military officials. It details what photographic evidence they had and the allegations.

Between now and 2004 MSNBC edited that news report and removed the most damning parts.. again you can see that in my above linked post.

The edited portion of that news item still exists with links to the original MSNBC (edited) report. One forum post is linked to in my above linked post.

Where was the outrage in 2004?

Why was it edited out?

If they had nothing to hide or cover up after that report then it would not have been edited.

There are no new allegations here, military officials told the press what they had seen, it was never made public, in fact it was nearly buried after that report.

Someone is now playing politics with this, and I believe there is far more to this than any of you have even come close to touching on here.

Why is anyone surprised or horrified at this? If they were willing to inflict pain and/or humiliation upon grown men, why stop there?

disgusting on many levels 1) human atrocities 2) those who performed these acts have gotten & will get away with it

I'm sure it's just a "few isolated events" uncharacteristic of the rest of the torture.

I'll stop before I get put on the terrorist watch list.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by contemplator]

Here's quite touching video called: GHOSTS OF ABU GHRAIB

In this video we get to know some of the military personel that served in Iraq and with connection to Abu Ghraib - hear them out these men and womens - hear their stories about the atrocities against both guilty and innocent victims that happened in the hell of Abu Ghraib 2003.

Google Video Link

Originally posted by maybereal11
reply to post by Enrikez

 

You either did not read my post or you misinterpreted it.

I never said there was an excuse for this, nor did I say it was Ok in any way, shape or form.

I in fact said (if this happened) that those that committed the acts should pay with their lives.

I take serious offense that you implied I condone or excuse such actions

I meant no offense, but I thought the following quote was pretty clear:

Originally posted by maybereal11

He is protecting Soldiers and American citizens abroad from suffering the inevitable backlash...as well as potentially Americans at home.

I am conflicted on this. I believe in the power of truth...but if it costs innocent lives? Creates a backlash in the Arabic community that makes the past few years look like a love-fest?

Sounds to me like you are worried about Arab backlash, which I am sure is well-founded, as you said yourself you are conflicted.

I took this statement (in context with what you followed up with) to mean that you would like 'the heads' of the people involved, but want to hide the atrocities from the Iraqi people.

That's not good policy. The world should know what is happening over there.