Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape

Originally posted by Chevalerous
This is beginning to be more disgusting than I can take!

Lindsey Graham, Republican Senator from South Carolina, saw the pictures and the videotapes along with the rest of the Senate.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. we're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience."

www.cbsnews.com...


[edit on 15-5-2009 by Chevalerous]

In the article from cbsnews, I find these statements peculiar and lacking elaboration to the maximum.

Six months before the presidential election, Rumsfeld's acceptance of responsibility drew a tart response from Sen. John Kerry, the Democratic challenger to Bush. "The chain of command goes all the way to the Oval Office," said the Massachusetts senator. "Harry Truman did not say, 'The buck stops at the Pentagon."'


Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. we're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience." He did not elaborate.

"This was an aberration," said Gen. Myers.

and what synonym defines aberration best?

Source:

Syn: Insanity; lunacy; madness; derangement; alienation;
mania; dementia; hallucination; illusion; delusion. See
Insanity.
[1913 Webster]

To unleash those of which nightmares are born against detainees and civillians is self evident to responsibility of those in ranks of ultimate command.

Would this be the Commander-in-Chief perhaps?

reply to post by Chevalerous


I understand that they have to use exact words. I'm just saying that the words in paranthesis are the words of the person typing it up. It is there for clarification.

If they left it as is then it would be confusing.

I just think the word used by the person typing it up is a little unprofessional for an official statement.

Originally posted by detachedindividual
This is sickening.

Now I understand why Obama doesn't want this out, this would, in one single strike, create thousands, if not millions, of potential threats to America.

This would radicalize many.

BUT!

Obama should release the information (not any images or identities), and he should state, without any shadow of doubt, that the Bush administration, all of them, will face charges.

Then he needs to repeat that the Obama administration is a new start. He needs to make it clear that America has changed. His current inaction, in light of these leaks, will only erode the image of Obama and America even further. He simply has to be open and honest and hold those responsible accountable for their actions.

If he doesn't, and this is already leaking, it will make millions enraged against America, and it will show that Obama is no different to Bush. He has no sense of justice unless he makes the previous government, their military leaders and those soldiers on the ground, pay for what they have done to those kids, those innocent people and the image of America around the world.

BUSH AND HIS CRONIES HAVE TO PAY!

Actually in my opinion, this will get much worse if it does not come out and get addressed in a criminal court. As you said, the information has already been leaked, and we all know just from reading the posts here just how distorted truth gets after it passes through 5 or 6 people. If the truth comes out and action is taken, although it will not undo what has been done, it will at least take away some of the radicals that this will surely breed.

If left alone and suppressed, the result will be a story that keeps getting distorted as it is transferred person to person until it snowballs into something even worse than it already is (if that is even possible). I haven't seen anything other than the pictures already in circulation and those alone not only make me ashamed of my country, it has made me seriously question the civility of the people that serve in the military. These people were taking pleasure in this crap. I remember when I was in the military almost 20 years ago and I did not meet many people at that time that would take pleasure in this sort of behavior, in fact quite the contrary is true, I think that the military personnel in my time, would have flat out refused to take part in this. This is not only anti-American behavior, this is sub-human behavior.

If it were up to me, every single person who took part in this either directly or indirectly would be serving life in prison without parole (and they would be fortunate that I do not support the death penalty, because God knows they deserve it). When you take pleasure in the suffering of another human being especially imposed suffering, not only are you suffering from mental illness; but, you are a risk to the general population as well and need to be completely separated from such.

I remember once reading a post here about how the military personnel would abuse Americans when marshal law was implemented. I wrote a response that said something like, "I don't believe that our soldiers would ever attack American citizens." I wish to retract that statement now, not only do I now believe they would harm fellow Americans, I think they may just enjoy it.

[edit on 5/15/2009 by DarrylGalasso]

reply to post by imd12c4funn


Yeah good find!

All this mess is soo terrible and I guess the current top dog and the rest of the high command are just shaking their heads at this, and wonder how the hell this circus could have happened?

It was a madhouse full of insane people apparently, hope they rot in hell!

Whatever material they now want to supress, it have to be really disgusting!

American soldiers guarding iraqi prisoners.........both are subject to the unseen forces known as the djinni. Americans have little knowledge and understanding of these beings.. The american t.v. show "i dream of jeanie" about a Genie that lived in a bottle was found by an american officer who took her home and became her master. The muslim know the truth of these beings from the Quran, so tend to avoid them. In this prison camp they encourage the americans to go overboard in the mistreatment of the muslim captives. Whispered suggestions quickly carried out. The djinni are the same that ruled the death camps and the gestapo and the nazi party in WWII. The two human factions are being played, one against the other when there is no need. We should have a united front against them, the real terrorists. t the djinni

reply to post by debris765nju


Umm, what has the distorted photograph got to do with djinn?

Am I missing something or it supposed to show one?

This is sheer Evil!

But what I really find astonishing is that people seem to believe that when soldiers go to war with a nation they don't kill, rape, maim, mutiliate etc their 'enemies' even the civillians.

What do you think our soldiers do when they go to a country to fight......play Monopoly?

This was no 'rightoues war'! This is NO righteous war. The Brits and Americans went there to destroy and destroy they did, physically, emotionally, sexually, mentally.......that IS what WAR IS!

This is why WAR is evil!

When people stand and cheer as their soldiers come back from war don't you know that some....not all, but some of those soldiers have KILLED, RAPED, TORTURED, MAIMED, the innocent men women and children of that country also and not just been fighting other soldiers?

Does everyone live under a rock and not understand reality?

WAR IS EVIL and EVIL WAR serves the purpose of our EVIL rulers!

Stop deluding yourselves into believing that soldiers are some kind of sweet, liberating sweethearts. These are trained killing, torturing, maiming machines programmed by the state to be a weapon!

WE would all be just as outraged if we followed a bomb dropped by a bombing plane and watched it land on a house and explode killing, maiming, destroying women and children who were asleep there.

The fact is, WE the people have no understanding of what WAR really is.

NOW WE KNOW WHAT GOES ON WHEN WE SEND OR ALLOW OUR GOVERNMENTS TO SEND OUR SONS TO WAR!!!!!

Say NO to WAR. Say NO to allowing your sons to be trained to do this sort of thing!

Otherwise shut up complaining and just accept it!!

Not sure if true, but the same story was made about the montauk project, where young males where destroyed and sodomised etc.... to break them.

The military really does horrendous things doesn't it. If these stories are true, what words would describe the people that run america.

[edit on 5/15/2009 by andy1033]

The Taliban is not a US invention. You've had your head in a bucket all your life if you believe that. Taliban are very real. So are A Qaeda very real. Are all Americans so dumb. Don't you guys ever read papers, or follow foreign affairs ?

What the Bush Government invented was a fictitious relationship between the anti-Islamic Bathist party of Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda. The Bush administration also invented WMD in Iraq, but hey, here's the rub...

You guys got into this mess ... now you can't just walk away and leave people to suffer. That's called Karma and it's USA's responsibility to stay the course.

Obama is taking steps to withdraw.

Obama is the most intelligent and genuine politician your country has ever had, so don't trash the guy. Support him you moron heads.

ExPostFacto

The Taliban were created by the USA. Therein is the issue in my opinion. We need to take a step back and ask some really tough questions of our leaders. How did we get into this situation?

Actually the time to step back and ask tough questions was several years ago with GW Bush but you Americans were too dumb at the time

... and now you're all being too dumb again missing the point as you did last time.

The point is releasing photos takes a bad situation and inflames it. You were clueless going into Iraq. Now you're clueless how releasing photos and documents will create a bigger conflict.

When will you people ever wake up ?

Originally posted by debris765nju
American soldiers guarding iraqi prisoners.........both are subject to the unseen forces known as the djinni. Americans have little knowledge and understanding of these beings.. The american t.v. show "i dream of jeanie" about a Genie that lived in a bottle was found by an american officer who took her home and became her master. The muslim know the truth of these beings from the Quran, so tend to avoid them. In this prison camp they encourage the americans to go overboard in the mistreatment of the muslim captives. Whispered suggestions quickly carried out. The djinni are the same that ruled the death camps and the gestapo and the nazi party in WWII. The two human factions are being played, one against the other when there is no need. We should have a united front against them, the real terrorists. t the djinni

Yes, it's the djinni, the damn crazy djinni, the most ugly and vile thing in the world that makes animals out of humans.

All of you, don't believe in goodness, everyone might become corrupted by the crazy djinni that tries to rule the world. That ruled the Nazis, the Mussolinis, the Saddams, the Rwandan people...
Beware of the djinni. Don't put yourself on a moral podest, because you will fall down, deep down to your rotten hearts.

Don't dare to justify your sick soldiers who beat detainees to death, hang them by their hands for hours, strip them off their clothes and pile them... on top of that, allow rapture of small children or even rape by themselves. Face the evil djinni and become just a bit humble, cause you are not better than anyone else. And resist against the urge to "pacify" the world, you can't even pacify your own words, let alone other cultures you don't understand.

Gandhi: There is no way to peace, peace is the way.

reply to post by sy.gunson


Even ron paul has stated plenty of time that america created Al Qaeda and radicalised islam, to bring down the soviets and help america do it. So what do you not get about that statement.

Do you think ron paul is not clued up on foreign affairs of usa, over last 30 years, lol?

So .. you're telling me ANOTHER politician wants to keep allegations of child sexual abuse hushed up?

Why am I not surprised?..
When it just seems to have become part of military and political lifestyles anyway.

How can the PTB criticise or expose this particular case when they pay good money to get it themselves... and NOT look like hypocrites???.

www.abovetopsecret.com...
From
CLEARSKIES.

AND extra links on first reply by
GREENEYEDLEO

There are a number of threads on this topic, even recently.
www.abovetopsecret.com...


www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

EDIT
Add in direct links

[edit on 15-5-2009 by AGENT_T]

Why would an administration be to blame for what a soldier did? What I mean is I'm a go ahead and disregard the vague implications of the aforementioned article.
Assuming American soldiers sodomized Iraqi/Afghanistan womens' children in front of them.
That's not the president's fault.
Just like it's not my fault if the vice president shoots some guy in the face while hunting.
Now... Is it ok for the government or former administration to cover up these recordings? I dunno arguably yes. Maybe they dealt with it. Maybe the soldiers were straight up convicted with no trial thanks to the patriot act.
Either way it might be in the best interest of the US to turn a blind eye to this incident. And because it might truly be better for everyone, MAYBE better, you can't blame this one on bush.

[edit on 15-5-2009 by Zealott]

I am sorry, but this just seems like anti-american propaganda to me.

I understand paedophilia exists and rape is a tool of war in many conflicts. This to me is an 'urban myth' which is made mildly believable because of other abuses.

I do not believe it was common and ritualistic. If it did happen, it may have been a rogue paedo. I do not believe this in the least and see it as a damning rumour opponents to the invasion of Iraq have jumped on to create fear in that country.

Can't help but seeing the parallel to this horrific story.

Maybe it is not "circumstances".
Maybe it is just specific individuals who have these tendencies.
Maybe those individuals are drawn towards places and situations like these, wtihout even knowing about it?

But the "war" in Iraq is very unique in its ways... The situation is strange and extreme.

It is very easy for me to say this, since I never did service in that place, but my first thought when confronted with the historical events of that country and specifically in that prison, I would try to do it "the other way".
You know, help people, try to give the impression, at least, of being one of the "good guys"...

But I wouldn't know...

This is just...wrong.

reply to post by Chevalerous


After looking at those pictures... honestly.. - I have to say your army is sick.. I think flying into a building for your belief is more noble than what I'm seeing here. Adding to this children being sodomized... I think I understand why they call America Satan.

- speechless...

There is strong generalizing language used here in regards to american troops not unlike the spew that went around during Vietnam.

reply to post by Layla


Of course I agree, but for there to be any real change there needs to be more than just the info because info can be made up as is apparent. I don't want to see those pics either , but many people need to know for a fact that it really happened and proof is in pictures unfortunately.

reply to post by Logarock


People generalise, it's the way we are - thats never going to change, it's just how our minds work. If you're American, I know it's hard to accept that these are your fellow countrymen, but they are.

Jesus man, those people are giving a thumbs-up over a corpse!
And some people are blaming Djinns... my goodness.. when will people just realise that there is no greater evil than the human heart. It's not demons or djinns or anything other than sick people with bad upbringing and no right to still be inhaling.

I'm not even referring to the allegations regarding the women and children. Goddamnit sometimes I really hate living on this planet surrounded by these ... I cant even think of a word thats bad enough to describe these people. If I was the mother of any of these animals I would commit suicide on national television as an apology.

I think the tapes should be released. The public have a right to know the truth.

If it wasn't American soldiers committing these atrocious acts and it's Iraqi soldiers, then it will stop the speculation that it was the Americans that did this. Otherwise USA will get the blame because of their previous record in Abu Ghraib.

It's safer if the truth comes out and those that were responsible are held accountable. Or it'll all just end up arguments, debates and speculation.

At the end of the day, we never really believe anything until we see it for ourselves. Although I personally couldn't watch it