Hersh: Children sodomized at Abu Ghraib, on tape

Originally posted by Layla
I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want to see those pictures. I think keeping the video or pictures locked up IS the right thing to do. Should the INFO be out? ABSOLUTELY, but there is no reason to release footage like that to the public. IMO, it only exploits those children further.

no, these pictures / videos absolutely MUST be released to the public so that it becomes enraged, so enraged, that action is taken and never forgotten. the instigators of such acts MUST be punished, and the only way to do so is for the public to cry blood.

how many today are enraged at concentration camps of WWII? no one knows much details about it, but watch some footage of concentration camps and you'll react. if this was happening now, the public must be aware of just how bad these things get, how traumatic it is - only then can proper justice be administered.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
If this is true.. if rape and murder, especially of children, occurred.. then I support and actually expect a full Crimes Against Humanity trial for the entire Bush administration..

Simply disgusting, I certainly hope these are lies, or exaggerations..

You're about 5 years late. These crimes are OLD. Like I said before, this is nothing new. Why the hell are these crimes being brought up again many years later is beyond me.

No, we shouldn't forget what American soldiers did to these prisoners. It was disgusting and depraved. But why make a fuss now? Again?

[edit on 15-5-2009 by GorehoundLarry]

Originally posted by Chevalerous


Yes you are probably right!

But all of the information needs to get out, and all of the people higher up must take responsability and make an public apology to the world.

This must go way, waaaay beyond public apology. Public apology is meaningless. The world apologized for the nazi genocide, yet it happened again and again and again since then. Apologies are meaningless.

Taking responsibility is the right course, provided it is coupled with prison time and life sentences for the perpetrators. Only then can we approach the level of taking responsibility.

This isn't even serving justice, since no justice can be served for the atrocious acts committed, unless the perpetrators were subjected to the same treatment.

Originally posted by sos37....I'm not interested in what COULD HAVE HAPPENED - I want FACT, not heresay, not COULD HAVEs, not SHOULD HAVEs, not MIGHT HAVEs, I want verifiable DID HAPPENs!!!
[edit on 15-5-2009 by sos37]

good luck getting that from the powers that be. it would be in their best interest to coverup as much as possible.

i will ask you a question or two and would like your response. i am certain that i am a milab victim. can i prove it? will it be admitted?

most of the mkultra files were destroyed. did this autracity take place? yes.. that and much more. can we prove the extent? no

what about the cia tapes that were destroyed...

evidence sos...

you'll be waiting until hell freezes over to get all the proof you need to feel satisfied. i'm afraid it's "classified" and will probably be destroyed.

you seem to be a sharp guy with alot of drive. i don't believe that your position is as hardline as you'd like for others to believe. maybe it's your mode.

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry...Why the hell are these crimes being brought up again many years later is beyond me. [edit on 15-5-2009 by GorehoundLarry]

because obama made promises that he is not taking back. this in turn is resulting in an outcry, along with an opening of an old wound.

bottom line, things should have been revealed at the time of the trials. they were not. too much was hidden and continues to be so.



[edit on 15-5-2009 by miasria]

Originally posted by gandalph

no, these pictures / videos absolutely MUST be released to the public so that it becomes enraged, so enraged, that action is taken and never forgotten. the instigators of such acts MUST be punished, and the only way to do so is for the public to cry blood.

I see your point, except one problem?

Wouldn't that be child pornography in a way?


[edit on 15-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

it disturbs me to even make this comment.

in some ways we are not different than those we lable "terrorists"

we get the job done by media manipulation and public opinion. these are the bad guys and we have to get them. we show, say all the bad things these evil people do.

while on the other hand, some of us are doing the same thing. the important point to remember... our reputation is on the line if this gets leaked.

it's a media, government / populace control game going on here.

so what's the difference between the two groups?

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry


No, we shouldn't forget what American soldiers did to these prisoners. It was disgusting and depraved. But why make a fuss now? Again?

Because people want the truth, the truth is half hidden, Truth is part of justice. Even if it takes a 100 years, people still would want to know the truth.



e.g who killed JFK?....


[edit on 15-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

shame on you obama. may his staff send my sentiments.

i have begun to loose faith with you. and with your tactics.

one day i pray that our America will be the land of Justice & Truth. that people, no matter their position and importance, will be held accountable.

we are at war. many things can be construed as war crimes.

there is alot of interesting footwork going on regarding the legalities of a host of things. seems that lawyers fly in swarms. i've often wondered if they're running the country. they and the cia.

Originally posted by GorehoundLarry

Originally posted by Rockpuck
If this is true.. if rape and murder, especially of children, occurred.. then I support and actually expect a full Crimes Against Humanity trial for the entire Bush administration..

Simply disgusting, I certainly hope these are lies, or exaggerations..

You're about 5 years late. These crimes are OLD. Like I said before, this is nothing new. Why the hell are these crimes being brought up again many years later is beyond me.

No, we shouldn't forget what American soldiers did to these prisoners. It was disgusting and depraved. But why make a fuss now? Again?

[edit on 15-5-2009 by GorehoundLarry]

because the majority of the public dont know about it and someone needs to be held accountable for it. this is america right, not iraq? not iran? not myanmar? but america... or is it? cause im beggining to think otherwise..

Originally posted by _Phoenix_
Wouldn't that be child pornography in a way?


[edit on 15-5-2009 by _Phoenix_]

i think the individual in question was a teenager boy... i think 15 or so. i'd have to recheck.

Here is the compromise.


I too feel that these pictures don't necessarily need to be released... not just yet.

It truly would radicalize many... many who might even be us.

However, the people responsible, from the top down should be brought to trial and the recordings used in that court.

Once the trials have been had, and the sentences passed down, then release them.

If we have convicted people on this and justice has prevailed, then it will be merely a very sad day in American history, but one that Justice has been served for.

However, if there are no convictions, and the pictures are indeed that horrific... I pray for all of us.

Hurting children is bad, but the Japanese Units of WW2 fed poison to Chinese children, and that's not polite dinner discussion.

And then the Chinese also had their bad days:

findarticles.com...

I got marching the next 16 days after that. During that march all the meat had worn off my feet, all the skin had dropped off, nothing but the bones showing. After arriving at Kanggye, they put us up in mud huts. There we remained until early January 1951. Then they moved us in oxcarts about 10 miles south of Kanggye, until April 25.

"A Chinese nurse came around to care for the wounded the first three days. She had a bag at her side stuffed full of newspapers, and a big pair of shears like we cut hedges with around the house. She said, `What's wrong with you?' I stuck my feet out from under the blankets and showed her the raw bones of my feet. She told me to lay down on my back, so I slid down.

"She started to clip off my toes. She missed the joint about a 16th of an inch, and hit the solid bone. She crunched them off, took them all off except the two big toes. Then she took that dirty newspaper and wrapped it over the blood and pus and tied it on with a piece of string. Then she went out.

"I said to the other fellows: `How do you like that?' I tore my comforter open and ripped out some cotton. Then I ripped up a pair of fatigues and made bandages over the cotton. I took care of my feet all winter long. The other three men who were with me died. By April 25, I was the only one alive in our group."

During the winter of 1950, Treffery related, the prisoners got a "very small bowl, about half a coffee cup, of food once in the morning and once in the night."

"They wouldn't give us water. Why, I don't know."

So let's see

We've got a whole century of blood which is not polite to discuss at the dinner table, particularly what was done to little kids by intent or as collateral damage.

We've got lots and lots of people who like to bugger other people without their consent, also this is not polite dinner table subject matter.

Now we've got these two concepts combined and half-truthed and rumored and so on. Both subjects are not polite subjects for discussion, but being forced into our faces, along with all the imagery involved.

I just wanted to post a little balancing info. I think "Ow." sounds the same in every language.

We need to examine humans as a group, rather than to keep playing the national-revenge game of history.


[edit on 15-5-2009 by smallpeeps]

reply to post by miasria


Hmm yeah, but it is interesting in a way, it's possible that they can be protected from releasing it because of that law. A sort of loophole? hmmm

reply to post by smallpeeps


We need to get our own house in order is what we need to do.

Personal responsibility above all else in the matters of these tortures. I don't care who else has done what else to anyone.

What I care about is my country and what my country does.

It says children were sodomized with cameras rolling. It doesn't say soldiers sodomized children. It doesn't say they supported this. The inmates could have done this. We don't know the whole story. Whichever it is, someone should be prosecuted since they didn't stop it (or if they did it). I just don't believe condemning the government for something they may not have done with this sketchy statement.

we are responsible for the prisoners that we take captive. this includes treatment and the basic necessities for life.

therefore, a raping that occured during their watch *is* their responsibility and should have been stopped. that entire area was under watch and control by the military... between mortars being fired at them.

Originally posted by _Phoenix_

Originally posted by gandalph
no, these pictures / videos absolutely MUST be released to the public so that it becomes enraged, so enraged, that action is taken and never forgotten. the instigators of such acts MUST be punished, and the only way to do so is for the public to cry blood.

I see your point, except one problem?
Wouldn't that be child pornography in a way?

Yes it would be child pornography.

I can't believe I am saying this, but I hope they never release those tapes as it would be too upsetting for both the people in the Middle East, and ultimately for our troops.

I am all about the graphic real life pix and video stuff, and have never turned down the opportunity to watch it no matter how harsh, I would watch those tapes too...but releasing those tapes to the public would be far far too destructive. It would be downright irresponsible. There should be convictions but no tapes or stills should be released.

I think they need to have very public hearings regarding the entire thing so everyone has a chance to disseminate all of the evidence out there. If it turns out that people are guilty then so be it, if it turns out they are not guilty then there ya go.

For some on here to advocate capital punishment on either individual soldiers or the former administration without ANY evidence is absurd! I know this entire subject is highly emotional but emotions alone are not going to get to the bottom of anything.

Lets see the Government lay all the cards on the table and go from there. No more political ass covering because someone belongs or doesn't belong to a certain party. This should go way beyond the political spectrum.

So it finnaly came out 5 years after the event now all that needs to happen is the other shoe has to drop in this case which is that it doesnt just take place in the prisons its been known to take place on military bases as well.

I was wondering how long the pentagon was going to be able to silence this and keep it quiet but its out now. Waterboarding is only being playcated to distract people from this and other things worse then it. And it happens everytime a story like this comes out we will hear about this for a few days then all of a sudden we will see a OJ simpson like case come in to attempt to distract the people from finding out the truth about this.

I say release the pictures and video tape if I was still on the air I would be the one taking them and making them public for gods sake you people need to grow a spine and do the right thing here.

Falcon