Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible

S&F Great post OP i enjoyed reading this. I have thought about the same thing from time to time but you make it very clear, thanks

Hell is just a realm and the lake of fire is the Hell comic books seem to falsly paint, there is the mythology version of hell and their is the Lake of Fire and the two are different. When Satan is bound for 1000 years its not the lake of fire from those movies you see, its another realm and people just get this mixed up. Why would God be judging the world because he wants us out of Hell so we wake up and never face it.

Originally posted by teapot

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

Short from God's perspective would be approximately a century or 100 years, but of course it could be a little less or a little more he is not bound to any specific number, you could easily add a couple of decades to that.

How do you know this? How do you know how God perceives time from His perspective? How do you know how this works in relation to human centuries or years or a couple of decades?

Well, that's a whole new topic and I don't want to derail the thread, but the only scripture that quantifies God's perception of time is
2 Peter 3 verse 8
Nevertheless, do not let this one fact escape you, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day

And we know a infinite being would view time different than beings that lives no more than 120 years. But here God is sending us a message.
Because of what the next verse says
verse 9
The Lord does not delay and is not tardy or slow about what He promises, according to some people's conception of slowness, but He is long-suffering (extraordinarily patient) toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should turn to repentance.

So he is relating this specifically to the END TIMES, NOT CREATION. This is very important to understanding time lines.

Roll it backwards
1000 years= 1 (24 hour day)
500 years=(12 hours)
250 years=(6 hours)
150 years=(3 hours) *
75 years=(1.5 hours)*
37.5 years=(45 minutes)
18.75 years=(22.5 minutes)
9.375 years=(11.25 minutes) (about a decade)
4.687 years=(5.63 minutes)
2.343 years=(2.82 minutes)
1.171 years=(1.41 minutes)

From all my other studies of the Scriptures I categorize this "short time" at God time at less than 3 hours but more than 1.5 hours.
This gives us a 75 year window where nobody, like Jesus said, would know exactly when the end would come.
Matthew 24 verse 36
But of that [exact] day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Jesus can calculate just like anybody else, he would have the generic window of time, but not the exact year.

BUT WE ARE IN THAT WINDOW OF TIME RIGHT NOW!

And many that post at ATS can feel it, they aren't wrong, they might have strange idea's that are wrong, but the feeling is correct.
Nobody can pick a specific date because of what Jesus said, so 2012 will get denied simply to fulfill bible prophesy, that doesn't mean it couldn't happen shortly before or after however.

Sorry I went off topic but I needed to address that point.

reply to post by Avenginggecko


It says many because it explains that some go to everlasting life ..and many go to shame and everlasting contempt ..
Jhn 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Whatever our ideology, many of us believe that we live in the end times. Even the die hard greenies are screaming 'save the planet'.

Thank you for sharing your understanding of the time thing and your calculations. If we take the verse in the literal, and certainly by all accounts, Peter had the quality of simplicity, then the numbers do add up!

My only query, thirst for understanding relating to time and the passage of time, has been the significance of, 'time, times, and half a time'.

But this knowledge is painful for me. By these calculations, my Lord spent 3,000 God years in hell. For me.

The objectives of Satan according to the high priests at the time (Satan's priests not god's/Jesus's)

Convince mankind there is no such thing as a soul.

Convince the world Satan does not exist so as too make sure complete control and rule over the earth. By doing this it also negates hell.

Use science to prove both he and god doesn't exist. Atheists are considered the holy'ist of his followers even though they don't know it.

The final belief is that God and Satan will come to a truce because god will not be able to defeat Satan nor him god. As a part of the truce Satan will be left with the earth to rule and the souls whom belong to god will return to him bringing peace to both sides.

Satan then promises to raise from the dead all of his fallen followers corpses to rule the earth for eternity.

This was one of the earlier beliefs in the satanic cult. Many ex-members swear by it at least the ones still alive. Supposedly if you gain the above knowledge and leave the church you will be killed, usually in a very strange accident.

I'll stop at that as I studied a small amount of early satanism so a good majority of the teachings have changed and pretty much appear to revolve around the first few statements.

I only have 2 problems with the teachings.

1. Isn't the earth awfully close to the sun to want to take it over and risk fire and brimstone?

2. Why would I want to be a corpse wandering the earth when I could be a spirit wandering all eternity?

Originally posted by OneNationUnder
One of Satan's tricks is to make us think there is no hell --no consequence for our sins. His whole goal is to get us to sin under our free will. He cannot force us to sin as then it's not a sin since it's against our free will.

Another is the belief in reincarnation, which doesn't exist. On the day of Judgment all souls are reunited with their bodies. If there was reincarnation, which body does the soul unite with? Another false belief. The idea here is "if you don't get it right the 1st time, no worries, you'll be reincarnated, so it's "ok to sin' in this current life and get it right in the next life.

Don't believe in the false belief that Hell doesn't exist. It does, whether it's here on earth, in the earth or on another plain. Some "Mysteries" will never be proven and that's for a reason ---faith.

It's all about getting us to sin under our own Free Will, for then it truly does offend God. Satan has many tools in his toolbox to get us to sin, and teaching that hell doesn't exist and that reincarnation does, are 2 tools that he relies heavily upon.

God is father to humanity and he loves us, just like a parent loves his children, do you really think a loving parent would stick a child in a oven and leave him there as punishment for something evil the child did?

Never!

Immortality of the soul was a lie introduced by Satan, when he told Eve you won't really die if you eat this fruit. God told them from dust you are to dust you will return.
Genesis 3 verse 4
Satan's Lie
The serpent said to the woman, "You surely will not die!

God's Truth
Genesis 3 verse 19b
You are dust, and you will return to dust."
(Sheol/Hades)

Who is telling the truth, Satan or God?
Once you have answered that question you have found the truth on this matter

As for there being no consequence's, yeah there is.
Good=Life Everlasting in Paradise on earth
Evil=Permanent Death / Non-Existence / back to the dust / Not in God's memory.

That is a serious consequence.

Satan set up the doctrine of "Hellfire" to repulse those with intellect, and he has been very successful, so your right it is a trick, but the reverse of what your saying.

There have been plenty of near death experiences that confirm that Hell is real. usually only the people who have the nice ones admit it, but there have been more than a few hellish ones that have been admited to.

Here are a few -

saved from hell

another saved from hell

Is there a hell?

To hell and back

More to hell and back

numerous NDE experiences

Patients NDEs of Hell

Hell experiences and testimonies

There are tons more online and in books .. but you get the idea.

Originally posted by teapot
reply to post by Blue_Jay33

 

But this knowledge is painful for me. By these calculations, my Lord spent 3,000 God years in hell. For me.

You got it reversed, from God's viewpoint of time, Jesus was in Sheol/Hades for only a few seconds, think about it, it was three days for humans, not God.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


Only if you believe that separation from God does not exist.

As the calculations you showed me;

1000 years= 1 (24 hour day)

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


The thing is, time does not actually exist at all for the father. Because he is all knowing, there is nothing new that can happen to create the illusion of time. As if something new did happen, then he wouldn't be all knowing.

In order to have the illusion of time and such like in this reality, it requires a lack of knowledge, so that new things can happen. Thus, the "son", which is all of us. We are all the father(soul) in the end, but reduced down in knowledge for the experience.

Thus while Jesus knew he was "god" and that the father was in him, he also realized that he is the son experiencing this, and so while the father is in us, the father is still much much greater than any of us.

Nothing is "real". All is illusion.

Very interesting and I agree for the most part. Now just gotta cover how heaven is a lie also....

I think heaven and hell or what they are popularly considered as, are here on earth with us. We can be in the best and the worst situations here on earth. It sometimes seems like a training grounds and a mix of everything.
God gave us agency as is said. The choice to accept him and go to heaven or hell.... What if I choose neither? What if I choose not to choose? I'm sure many believe I am still doomed. It's very contradicting and with religion and reincarnation and all else the question is this. How much are you willing to lie to yourself to feel better about what you and I don't know?


Either way translation shows to be a very large contributor of modern religious confusion. Very good info! S&F!

[edit on 22-4-2009 by N3krostatic]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33




They thought God meant they would die as soon as they ate it .......satan explained to them ..hey your not really going to die ....and God knows your not really going to die ....the truth was they would die ..just not right now ..
And in fact when they ate it changed the whole lovely paradise scenerio in a huge way ...They were made with forever in mind in that paradise ...but then they ate and now they were indeed on their way to DEATH >
Since they ate they are GOING TO THEIR DEATH (not would die right then and there) both spiritual and literal death ....as you know God then told them that now that they ate of it they had to eat of the tree of life ........
Then the tree was closed off where they could not get to it because JESUS is the way to be able to eat of the fruit of the tree of life and he did not come along till way later ...Adam and Eve may have been some of the ones who came out of the graves when Jesus did ..................he did go and preach to all who died before he came .....which I believe this may be where all the dead were before Christ ........

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.


Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Gen 3:23 Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

Gen 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.



Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, [was there] the tree of life, which bare twelve [manner of] fruits, [and] yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree [were] for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


Because of Adam and Eve listening to satan and doing what he wanted them to do ..they then needed to be ransomed from DEATH ..that was what JESUS did and why he died and was raised again ...This is why all of mankind needs Jesus Christ ...he is the DOOR to eat of the tree of life and ..the door to eternal life and is the door out of death and hell ..............
Hsa 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

If JESUS is the door ..and all other doors are not the doors to recieve these promises of life ...why would anyone want to choose any other door BUT THE TRUE ONE AND ONLY DOOR >>..JESUS CHRIST >>>>....

Sometimes I just dont get why anyone would want to refuse to know the Lord Jesus Christ ....not only was he a awesome example of how we all need to be to have a better world ..but he is also the ONLY DOOR to eternal life .Everyone is invited ....but in order to recieve it you would have to first believe that he is ...then you accept what he says is truth (that only he is the door) in order to walk through that door and recieve his promises ....

reply to post by teapot


We perceive time to go faster as we age, since God has no beginning, time goes much quicker for him than us. The longer you exist the faster time goes
from our points of view. For example when you have lived only 10 years, 5 years is half your life. But if your 80 years old, 5 years is only a very small part of your life. That's why we can say from God's perspective Jesus was only in the grave for seconds, as he had died and paid the ransom. He didn't need to stay dead for long, there was no point.

Time actually doesn't matter that much to God, he only uses it for the benefit of others, so they can keep track of events. He created time when he created Jesus, as that is the earliest reference marker that exists before even the physical universe existed.

reply to post by FlyersFan


First of all information is tweaked for many reasons from theatrics to getting attention and to just sometimes scaring people.

I have read a lot about NDE's and there is some convincing evidence that what one considers the tunnel of light or visiting family members is nothing more than hallucinations and your brain malfunctioning. My grandfather had a stroke recently and told us when we visited him that we had came to visit him earlier before we actually showed up, which we did not. He also went on to tell and inform us about the dead family members he visited and spoke to. He said many things and most were obviously illogical due to his situation.

It runs along the same argument as interpretation of dreams. You dream about what you want and you dream about what you fear. That does not mean they are prophetic or in some way special. We just don't understand what is happening with death and what happens after. We try to explain it but with limited understanding and knowledge we are left giving it irrational and usually contradicting explanations like heaven and hell.

It is our fear that creates these definitions and it is our lack of understanding that leads us to believe them.

reply to post by N3krostatic


[What if I choose not to choose?]

Well according to scripture you could be one of these people then ..
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

You will suffer not only in the flesh on this earth after recieving the mark but also for all eternity after that even ..........

Notice when vexed with fleshly pain and emotional turmoil on this earth ..they believed in God enough to cuss him out for the sores etc .....so I suppose at some point before that time they were convinced that there was a God but chose not to believe there was a consequence to not believing ....


Scripture also says that at some point it is too late to change your mind anyway ......
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward [is] with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

And any loving kind thing he did will be remembered no more (so dont think your works will save you alone because they will not ) ..Even Christians works wont save them ...neither will the works of the unbelievers save them .....................

Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.


There are plenty of scriptures pertaining to what happens to the person who chooses not to choose anything ......and the lukewarmers (which I consider nonbelievers as lukewarmers too)

They will be TURNED OVER TO THE FLESH ..and will be destroyed ......not only in flesh but for eternity ............

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.

Some may change their minds during the trib ...but they will still suffer in the flesh .(these may be the ones who have to die for him) .........
1Cr 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

reply to post by N3krostatic


If the bible ... which is full of myths, stories, stolen Summerian and Egyptian materials, and tales .... can be used to discredit 'hell' .. then there is nothing wrong with using Near Death Experiences to prove that Hell exists.

The NDEs have more credibility then the bible stories - IMHO.
Those are here and now and can be studied.
Some can be brain misfires.

But others - where the recovering person tells about what he/she saw while out of the body .. and about conversations he/she heard on the other side of town ... those can't be dismissed.

*Note - the bible has myths, stories, stolen materials from the Egyptians and Summerians, madmen hailed as prophets, antique traditions that made their way into the bible as 'the word of God', ... and it also has history, powerful mysticism, good words to live by here and there, and great insight. It's just so mushed together it's hard to find what is truth and what isn't.

If someone is going to use the bible to disprove hell .. then I submit that NDEs are much more reliable and should be listened to.

OMG

PEOPLE in this life 2009 forget who they are and why they are here, if all believe that we are here for a porpose and god but us here what the hell are people forgetting????

To be regonised with others!!!!!! To be understood as individuals!!!!!!!!
What??????????

We all make plans, we all want to achieve, and be born into something remarkable. Do people think that living in this world right know will be forgotten???? Their is millions of people living here, right know, than everrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!!! Comon we should be kicking life in the butt will we can, you make me want to cry, so what what about god!!!!!! what about me and me right now!!!

There is nothing wrong with a little self indulgious!!!!!! Hello
Where is your brain????????? With the others i pick off from the streets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
f*ck

sorry im drunk and away to bed as i didnt mak e much sense of what i wrote

Sozzz and goodnight


lol

I want to address how Satan and his demons and his followers could be in the lake of fire/Gehenna/second death, but they are not alive. Yet there memory is a torment that keeps sending up smoke for all eternity

It has to do with a thought process and grammar.

For example after pearl harbor was bombed it was said that "this day will live on in infamy" was that day really alive? No, but it lives on in our memories and is a part of history. Similarly Satan and his followers will live on in historical infamy for all of eternity, someone born 30,000 years from now will learn about Satan and what he did and how God dealt with him. He will be tormented by history although not alive to know about it. Just like somebody in middle school learns about Pearl Harbor, a historically infamous day.

Satan reign of terror will never be repeated because God won't let us forget the result of rebellion, after Satan is killed. Any rebel in the universe that rises up against God will be instantly killed, and all God has to say to everybody is, remember Satan. That is the smoke that ascends from the lake of fire, Satan's history.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Blue_Jay33]