Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible

Originally posted by Welfhard
That's my point. Just why would he? What was his angle? My conclusion (from when I was christian) was that either God did rule all, but stood back and let Satan have free reign of Earth, or Jesus was just a man. The former makes less sense because if Jman wanted the earth, he wouldn't need satan to give it to him, he could just take it.

Yes, it is allowed and with very good reason. To educate and give you knowledge.

Could you understand what it meant to be "hot" if you didn't also understand cold? Happy without sad? And so is true with good and evil. You could always be 1 or the other, but you must experience both in order to gain understanding and wisdom over others.

Thus you are born into this world ignorant and thus with acceptance of evil. So that you can experience the evil and learn from it. To have wisdom means to make the correct choices based on the understanding, knowledge and experiences you have. Thus as it says in genesis, Man is to become one of us, to know both good and evil(to have understanding).

You are then removed from the "garden" in order to protect those who are not evil while you learn. This planet is quarantined for this reason. If evil is allowed to roam in such a society, then that society can no longer be the society it was. Suddenly you need police, governments and so forth.

Because the best government is technically anarchy. But don't let anyone try to sell it to you on earth, because they are a fool. It is only the best form of government among a people who are not evil, among a people who follow the commandments and so forth. In a society of only good people, there is no need for police, because there is no crime. No need for governments, because there is no evil to protect from. If you left your house, returned 20 years later, it will be the same as you left it. Try that on earth with evil present, and you come back 20 years and don't even own a house etc. Try to live with no governments and you will be ruled by another. etc.

So, you being evil had to be removed from that society. Because how can a man who steals expect to live in a society without theft? It's impossible. So while we are learning, we are here and subject to the powers on earth.

The people were given the commandments. And they were sorely misunderstood. People thought they were justified in killing people, but it was seen as 2 sins, not just one. If you kill the man who killed, it's 2 murders, not just one. Thus, we get Jesus and those like him, who come to earth to try and give people actual understanding. So that maybe, just maybe you might follow in his example, live by the commandments and gain the understanding and knowledge needed to have wisdom, and make the correct choice. So that you might someday return to such a society.

That's pretty much an overview of it all. In the end, all things serve the will of the father, like it or not. All done to bring about understanding, knowledge and wisdom. Which just so happen to be the only things god see's as valuable, and is what makes the rich man in his eyes, not material wealth.

reply to post by Welfhard


I am sorry, but you have missed the point. If God gave Satan the earth, then he, God, did NOT rule the earth.

Satan was trying to tempt Jesus to join him and leave God.

reply to post by badmedia


Your posts are great, please excuse me for not replying because I am arguing a point with someone else at the moment.

Originally posted by Welfhard
But if satan was simply allowed to rule then, he needn't offer Jesus the world cos God still technically ruled.

Going off the bible here, rather than my own understandings on this one.

It is said that satan rules over many places, but in the end he is confined to the earth, which makes him angry and so forth.

It's not so much that he wants people to "suffer", but rather he wants to be god. He uses technology and such to try and fill the role of god. Suffering is just the result, as he doesn't really give a damn about you.

All knowing - spying and such.
All Powerful - military
Judger of all - judicial system. Or as GHB said, "rule of law, rather than law of the jungle".

Coincidence that these are the areas the majority of resources in this world is spent on? I don't think so.

He offers Jesus the world because Jesus wakes people up and gives them understanding, and nothing is more dangerous than that. When he offers him the world, what he is offering him is a political position of power, which the Jews wanted him to do, become king and so forth. But he turns it down, and then is murdered. Because real truth is that harmful to the lie and deception of this world. If he had served Satan instead, then he wouldn't have continued that function, and he could have done the role and delivered many others to him.



[edit on 22-4-2009 by badmedia]

Originally posted by spellbound
Your posts are great, please excuse me for not replying because I am arguing a point with someone else at the moment.

No worries, I just like to answer genuine questions and such. Meaning, questions that look for understanding. They are like crack to me, I can't resist.

reply to post by spellbound


Then he is not the ruler most high, master of all things etc etc. It makes no sense that on earth, God has no control when satan does. If this were true then he has no right to make miracles happen, as this world isn't his, it's Satan's.

reply to post by badmedia


Thank you so much - you have just said that Satan is confined to the earth - exactly what I am coming to believe.

Satan rules the earth, therefore we are in hell now, which explains all the atrocities going on in our world. The hardest struggles we will ever face are happening right here.

Roll on heaven.

reply to post by Welfhard


Yes, it makes a lot of sense. God gave this earth to Satan, we are going through hell, so it all improves from here - great.

reply to post by spellbound


Fair enough. Though I think this discussion is getting a little off topic now.

reply to post by Welfhard


The topic was about Hell being a false concept - we are discussing Hell - have you run out of arguments?

reply to post by spellbound


We were discussing the earth and it's ownership.

have you run out of arguments?

Goading, aren't we.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by badmedia


Oh, btw, I do not agree with your original concept that hell does not exist.
And I think that you do not even agree with that now, after the discussion.

God wants us each to have a personal (eternal) relationship with Him.

We each have the right to choose or reject this.

Hell (call it by whatever name you will), = separation from God.

You think the world/earth is hell? On this earthly plane, we have love to ease the agonies of spiritual or psychological pain.

Love provides the balance that helps us to reason when all seems lost.

There is no Love in hell. Add to this that there is no panacea (drugs, alcohol, religion) to replace Love and dull the experience of pain.

Jesus is Lord of All. Only the Christ has broken the bounds of death and escaped hell, ie returned to the presence of God.

Personally, I no longer need to research this further. It is simple to me. I don't ever want to be in a place of awareness that does not include the presence of God. For Love is the Key to Life and that is good enough for me.

reply to post by Welfhard


Welf, I am not doing anything to put you down or be superior, and when you say to someone "aren't we", that is a deliberate atttempt to put them down.

I enjoy debating issues with you, but please do not use crap psychology on me - it just won't work.

reply to post by teapot


Yes, Love is all you need (Beatles).

But you are so right, love is what people need, and in the presence of war there is the lack of love.

But you are right - there is a lot of love in this world. I still think we are fighting Satan - maybe the ruler of this world - with some help from loving beings like Jesus.

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by Welfhard

 

Welf, I am not doing anything to put you down or be superior, and when you say to someone "aren't we", that is a deliberate atttempt to put them down.

I enjoy debating issues with you, but please do not use crap psychology on me - it just won't work.

"Have you run out of arguments?" Not doing anything to be superior, indeed. I'm not arguing, it started out as thinking aloud, not trying to prove a point.

You think Earth is Hell and Satan rules it.
I think it's a bunch of rubbish.

When It became semantics I couldn't be bothered, hence why I tried to end the conversation with "Fair enough."

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Welfhard]

reply to post by Welfhard


I have more experience than you, ouch.

You are trying to turn it around. We were having a great discussion and then I won and you could not stand it.

You have not addressed my points.

reply to post by spellbound


meh... your not worth it.

reply to post by Welfhard

That is so funny - when you are older, you will lose that edge.

I wish you well.

Originally posted by spellbound
reply to post by badmedia

 

Oh, btw, I do not agree with your original concept that hell does not exist.
And I think that you do not even agree with that now, after the discussion.

Well, hell as described by christians I don't agree with, as in being something that happens after you die and last for eternity etc.

But I do not see the universe in the same linear ways as most people do. Where as most people view reality as linear, and like a single movie film, I instead see many many films stacked on top of each other(dimensions). The choices you make, the actions you take and so forth are what determines your "path" across this universe. This is how you reap what you sow, and why Jesus talks of a path. You are constantly changing dimensions all the time, it just appears linear to you.

If you make a bad choice, then you reap that choice. Kill someone, you pay the price for it. Keep making bad choices, and you will end up in a life that is "hell". Make good choices, such as those of Jesus, and you find the "way" to heaven.

Thus why it doesn't do anyone any good to pay lip service to Jesus, only their actions(fruits) matter because that is what determines your path. Speak well of Jesus, but do not do as he says, and you still walk the path of death and destruction.

Also is why you are automatically forgiven once you start walking the right path, because then you will no longer be making the mistakes and so they are no longer and issue.

The hypocrite is screwed because they think they do right, and just have bad things happen to them.

It's like putting your finger on a stove eye. You do it, and it burns you. You learn the lesson and then you remove the finger. Don't remove the finger, it gets worse. Life is like that, and so how far into "hell" you go is dependent on how long it takes before you learn the lesson. The hypocrite keeps their finger on the stove eye and blames everyone else for the pain.

So I don't think of "hell" in the same manner as christians do, nor would I say the "official" name is "hell" or anything like that, it's just the nature of things. The universe automatically adjusts in the above way to teach you the lessons you need to learn, because the lessons you need to learn are the ones that "burn" you. Move you finger from the stove to the oven - next lesson.