Hell is a Conspircacy Theory- Proved False, From The Bible

reply to post by teapot

God wants us each to have a personal (eternal) relationship with Him.

If god is the creator of all that there is then it would be impossible for god to want anything, an omnipresent/omniscient creator cannot be in want. Thus it is impossible for god not to have what god wants.

We each have the right to choose or reject this.

If god is omniscient/omnipresent we cannot reject anything as this would imply that there is something that god does not know, ie an outcome. If god is the creator of all that there is, it would be impossible for got not to know an outcome of an action that it created.

Hell (call it by whatever name you will), = separation from God.

Hell, is an imaginary place designed to keep xtians compliant with fear and the thread poster has done a nice job of illuminating this fact.

If god is the creator of all that there is then there is nothing that god is not, this would make it impossible to be separate from god. In order for something to be separate from god there would need to be something that god is not, if this were true then god could not be omniscient/omnipresent.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by N3krostatic

 

[What if I choose not to choose?]

Well according to scripture you could be one of these people then ..

Well I'm glad I don't believe in the scriptures as pure fact or un-tweaked history. I kind of also find it hard to believe that within a limited and measured time frame, we are judged. (this life) Then based on those decisions, according to most christians I know, can suffer indefinitely forever in "eternal" torment with no limit to time.

That seems a little uncalled for. Kind of like saying "well you screwed up this one time now you are destined to remain in hell FOREVER!" without time to determine how long you will have to suffer based on your previous actions.

With a measured time frame in which a mistake or action is done, appropriately, the consequence or reaction must be measured within some time frame as well. If not well, it is another fear tactic or god is one nasty hateful god.



Anyway who really knows. Time will tell. It always, always does.....

[edit on 22-4-2009 by N3krostatic]

reply to post by Burginthorn


Hi, this is my first post here....but after reading these posts I found it all very interesting because of everything I have experienced in my own life.

I believe Burginthorn because I have a similiar experience a few years back. Its almost as you described it.

------This is when I was 19 living w/ my dad (before I was married)-------
I was in this dark Never-ending place. I remember putting my hand in front of my face, & I could NOT see it! (thats how dark) I wanted to leave this place but their were no doors (Somehow I knew everything....like I was instantly AWARE) I wanted to move, but was in fear because there was no where to go or even SEE. Being in this place felt like NO TIME EXISTED or time was VERY SLOW!! I remember I started to pray...and it must have took awhile. But then I prayed again & I was finally out of their.

------2-3yrs later I moved away out of the state with my husband & daughter----
I was in this same dark everlasting place or pit. I could not see anything...(& is darker than dark here on earth) But this time, I was sitting down with a "Strange" sensation of NO feeling of my legs. They were Broken & I couldnt feel them or move them. Then I heard a voice that sounded like an Ex-boyfriend. It was trying to convince me to "Stay." I sounded just like him & at 1st I thought, "Is that him?"
But, something told me to ignore that voice & to only pay attention to the darkness & the fact that my Legs were BROKEN. I knew this wasnt Right, and that really wasnt HIM.
So I started to pray....and still nothing. THen I yelled & saided "I Believe in YOU!! I belong to you, take me away!!"

---And I woke up.

After this dream, my Instant feeling on this was I was in the OUTTER LAYER of HELL.
I am a Christian, but I believe that if your Faith is somewhat Borderline....than that makes you an Easy target for Satan. Or if your even still in the process of learning the real Truth of Gods plan that makes you an easy target.
During this time I did believe in God & Christ, but was still learning what it all meant....and it did take me awhile to pick up the Bible & learn scripture. (Which is a choice we all have to make on our OWN)


[edit on 22-4-2009 by Inspiration1911]

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


This thread is about the concept of hell being a conspiracy theory.

All organised religion has been subverted with grammer and thought processes and translations and calculations and dogma and ritual and many diverse ways of organisation.

The Bible should be read personally. Not cover to cover like a novel but rather. dipped into time and time again, with thought, reflection, meditation, prayer.

Hell is separation from God. We experience life in duality. Good and evil; Love and pain. Sometimes, life is harsh and the only thing we have to sustain us is belief in goodness.

Separation from God means an end to the goodness that sustains us through our tribulations. Separation from God means no laughter, no kindness, no understanding.

reply to post by N3krostatic


[Kind of like saying "well you screwed up this one time now you are destined to remain in hell FOREVER!"]

Because this one time *(THIS LIFE) is all we have at least one we know for sure right now ............this life is what determines what happens now and what happens to you in the hereafter .....................
How can we have more times once we are dead ? Especially if Athiests are right (which they are not lol) .......they believe nothing happens after you die..your just dead ,....so if they are correct ..you would think even they would learn to appreciate this life alot more than they do if they believe that to be the truth ....

People really need to take THIS life alot more seriously than they do ..
It is all we have at least that we know for sure (we do have this life now for sure) what comes after this we really do not know for sure do we ? (unless you do believe in the Bible and the Lord) ...................
I see people everyday not give a crap about living ....and all they want to do is crawl under their beds and disappear ......instead of rising to the challenges of life and make it the best life you can make it ...................

Hey Op,
Why dont you tell this "no hell" concept to one of my buddies:
www.wsoctv.com...#-
He had an NDE, on his way towards heaven, was dragged by the ankle into a Heel whole, raped by demons, tortured, thrown into a lake drowning, attacked by pirhanna like creatures, then pulled out of it all by angels who puched is soul back into his body.

Once he woke up, he realized he was in a coma for 2 months.

reply to post by moocowman


Your logic is sound! Until you throw free will into the equation.

I understand your beliefs about the higher powers, angels and demons being ET. I cannot deny that other matter formed sentient beings live in infinity. Just as I cannot deny that they don't. I have no knowledge of these things.

My belief that even if ET is real and here, there are non matter formed beings alive in our lives.

Ok, I don't want to be a wet blanket here or anything, but it sounds like you are all debating a poorly written book. I liked the OP's original post, but it's still just semantics of fiction. We may as well be interpreting Nordic, Asian, Greek, or Hindu mythologies.

I apologize if anyone takes offense to this.. I just don't understand how Christianity is such a prominent topic on this site. If a goddess, woman springing from the head of a giant man sounds ridiculous, but a tiny winged person flying into the ear of a virgin to impregnate her, a talking snake, and a man that gathered two of every animal in the world for his boat is totally believable... I think you need to step back and reevaluate your thinking for a moment.

deny ignorance...

reply to post by dominicus


Dreams can be nightmares that are quite vivid, and lifelike, I don't deny any nightmare like you state.
I am just saying it's not a true reality, a coma would mean you can't wake up from a nightmare making it even more real, that is a scary thought.

And people who keep saying "hell is a separation from God", are repeating a revision of the old hell. Since we proved that hell is the common grave, if a person is dead you are separated from God but only because you have no life, and it's not your fault.

One thing I find amazing is that people read a scripture from the bible that contradicts their current belief structure, actually agree with it, then go right back to there old long held beliefs ignoring what the bible actually says, after they already agreed with it before. Never could figure that one out.


If somebody has explanation for this I would like to hear it.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

reply to post by Avarus


I will respond with a post I made to another thread on the bible

What has been messed with is what the bible teaches, what God choose not to stop was Satan using his ultimate weapon, that is setting up a false spiritually that sucks in the weak minded and repulses the intelligent because they know it to be a lie. Thus the success atheism. He wins both ways, with this weapon. It is a brilliant strategy actually, that has worked for thousands of years. Evolution is his most recent and most advanced intellectual weapon to date. But it will be his last.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Blue_Jay33]

Originally posted by DarthoriousI'll stop at that as I studied a small amount of early satanism so a good majority of the teachings have changed and pretty much appear to revolve around the first few statements.

I only have 2 problems with the teachings.

1. Isn't the earth awfully close to the sun to want to take it over and risk fire and brimstone?

2. Why would I want to be a corpse wandering the earth when I could be a spirit wandering all eternity?

The only thing I can say about that is you have to take into account that Everything will change & become NEW after the 1000yrs is over & done.

Rev21 The New Jerusalem

Then I saw a NEW Heaven and a NEW EARTH, for the 1st Heaven and the 1st Earth had PASSED AWAY, and there was no longer any sea.

(2) I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down our of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

----Something to think about.

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Inspiration1911]

[edit on 22-4-2009 by Inspiration1911]

Great stuff! I think that we should only take into consideration all original works, such as the original Jewish holy texts and the original Christian texts (I use plurals because multiple stories of each set may have existed before officially being put together into single texts). That way, we can forget about mistranslations and etc. Of course, though, this may be a daunting task, as people here may not be able to read the original languages.

A definition of "hell" that I have heard is: absence from the presence of God.

The idea is that God is good and holy and if you knew without a shadow of a doubt that he existed then you would want to be around him and with him all the time.

"Hell" is to know that there is a kind and loving God and to be without him for eternity.

reply to post by Blue_Jay33


I understand what you're trying to accomplish there. It makes sense if you justify it as such. The fact still remains that I have more reason to believe that there is an invisible pink unicorn living in my refrigerator than a giant man with a flowing white beard living the sky. If you refuse to believe in the unicorn, then it is because he wants you to refuse his existence. Thus, the unicorn has won.

But fear not, the IPU will appear before us one day when he deems we are ready.

I'm sorry, please don't take this as an insult to your beliefs. To me, the statement I made above holds as much water as most ancient and modern religions.

There are soooooo many "translated/revised" versions of the King James Bible. That is why it's so very important to stick to the original King James that came from the 1611 King James Bible.

For example, the King James Bible clearly instructs us that homosexuality is an abomination. And the gay peeps weren't happy about that so they "revised" their own "bible"........ it's called "The Gay/Lesbian Bible". And on their website they advertise this:



You CAN be gay and a Christian! No guilt involved! You CAN be sure the Scriptures say nothing against homosexuality at all! You CAN live the life you were meant to lead.
WebsiteLink

My point being - "man" has taken it upon himself to create a bible for each occassion/sin, which gives them nothing more than 'false comforts'.
Whoever wrote and is publishing the Gay/Lesbian "bible" is not only falsely leading God's children in the wrong direction, but they are sealing their eternal fate as well.
In Revelations, in the last few paragraphs it warns man about adding to, or taking from, His book.

And yes, God's Bible tells us there is a hell - described as the 'lake of burning fire'.

And secondly, why do people continue to blame Christians for what the Bible says - God is the ultimate author of the Bible. God's followers are instructed, by God, to spread His gospel, as well as warnings. People seem to want to act like Christians are who wrote the Bible.

Satan wants peeps to believe there is no hell. He knows he only has a set amount of time left to sway as many people as he can away from God before Jesus Christ returns.


And if you think he comes to us dressed in red, with horns, and carrying a pitchfork........ think again. Satan comes at people dressed as a beautiful angel of light, and offering only "good" sounding things.

Don't be deceived -

I was reading the ATS post about the 'web bot' a few minutes ago - and wondering why if people want to really know what is coming, why they don't just read Daniel and Revelation in the King James Bible. Those two books tell us exactly what's headed our way, in detail.

reply to post by Avarus


Let me re-emphasize the part that applies directly to you then.

repulses the intelligent because they know it to be a lie

Just like your invisible pink unicorn living in your fridge is a lie.

But going down this path takes us to another thread topic.
Namely, the validity of the bible. This thread is for people who already value the bible as the word of God, and are trying to advance their knowledge of it.

I am afraid the most a person like yourself can get out of this thread is acknowledging what you already know, Hell doesn't exist, and you are aren't going to it.

No disrespect meant to you either.


One area I do agree with atheists, is from elements we are, to elements we return, or from dust we are to dust we return, right now. Dead is dead.
If I go outside and get creamed by semi truck and I die, I would be dead and in a state of non-existence, just like you, if that was to happen to you.

The main difference, is a hope for the future after death, for life at a later date, that God can recreate our souls and bring us back, at his appointed time.

Honestly I would be careful, very careful about my soul as I see some here who have no faith. I've seen some things and I know Heaven and Hell are real. An honest study of religion, prophecies, history ect is a good place to start. I can't believe how easily people throw the concept of a creator under the bus.

Forever is a long time.....I would not gamble with my soul.

I've seen Jesus and Lucifer and you would not believe the difference. It's not what you think.

I can't force my faith on anyone, but dear God be careful with your soul.

Our physical bodies do go back to dust. But our souls don't - they live on eternally - in one of two places.

So I have to disagree on the 'dead is dead' view.

People are either serving God or they are serving satan. Atheists, new agers, and other categories would fall in the 'satan' list.

The tribulation will separate the God followers from the satan followers. Once God's wrath is in full swing on the earth, there will be people that finally come to Christ - but there will be more that don't - the Bible warns that there will be fewer who make it to Heaven.

But can anyone really blame Him though? I mean look at our world today - people choosing evil over good, choosing to worship self and satan over God.
Had I created a planet of people and they acted like we have, I think I would be angry too.

"Satan doesn't want us to believe hell" I keep hearing that, and the reason is?

Let me guess, "if he makes us think there is no hell, then we won't be motivated to serve God, because then we think our soul won't be tortured for all of eternity???

So we can do whatever we want without consequence, there has to be Hell to keep us all in line and motivated to do good???"

And this is why people turn against Christianity and reject it, a God that sentences his children to eternal damnation is not someone that draws people, it repulses people. That's why Satan actually wants us to believe in Hell, because it repulses more people than it attracts, it is a highly damaging doctrine to true faith.

Actually people that have developed their spirituality really driven by faith in Hellfire as literally torturing people forever, have issues.
It's fear mongering at it's highest level.