When Words Can Kill: 'That's So Gay'

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Originally posted by jfj123

Well wait a minute. Since it's just survival, why call the cops? Sure you can try and defend yourself but maybe the bully that wants your house is bigger then you so you get tossed out of your house. Remember, you said bullying is OK.
You're not suggesting calling the cops for other bullies so why call the cops when you're being bullied? That doesn't blend with your logic.

Something is wrong with the way you quoted, it made it look like I said your words.

Calling the cops would be logical because it's the law. I didn't say bullying is okay, I said it's a natural instinct and parents need to prepare their children for it.

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by jfj123
We as a society have been turning a blind eye to abuse for too long. We need to start getting involved.

WHAT?!?! Are you kidding me with that melodramatic nonsense or what guy??

Life for parents has gotten SO friggin out of control that they can't even discipline their children without the fear of going to jail, and you in your infinite wisdom thinks this society has been turning a blind eye???

Get a friggin check on reality a bit pal and look around you.


AB1

First, might I suggest your snotty attitude. You tend to get what you give.
You don't have to beat your child to discipline them. If you think that is your only option might I suggest you DON'T HAVE KIDS !
Nobody gets involved anymore.
Teachers see children bullying others.
People on the street see husbands hitting their wives and have done nothing.
etc...
Kids are out of control because their parents aren't adult enough to raise them. Don't blame the state for the parents shortcomings.
Try your own reality check, PAL. Stop making excuses and start doing something about the problem.

Originally posted by Leto
Originally posted by jfj123

Well wait a minute. Since it's just survival, why call the cops? Sure you can try and defend yourself but maybe the bully that wants your house is bigger then you so you get tossed out of your house. Remember, you said bullying is OK.
You're not suggesting calling the cops for other bullies so why call the cops when you're being bullied? That doesn't blend with your logic.

Something is wrong with the way you quoted, it made it look like I said your words.

Wait a minute, I'll post what we both said:
jfj123

So then you think it's a good idea to let children bully each other, assault each other, etc.. to prepare them for life?

Leto

Absolutely. I think everyone in public school goes through bullying, I was bullied and I did my fair share of bullying. Eventually you realize it's childish and you grow over it.

Notice how you said you ABSOLUTELY think it's a good idea to let people bully each other.

So what's the difference if a child bullies another child or an adult bullies another adult? That's why I gave you the example of a bully taking your food and house. If you think bullying is ok, then it's ok in general. You can't have it both ways. So no calling the cops, just take it. If a bigger, stronger person wants your house and you can't stop them, you lose your house. Just a different version of bullying. I bet it's now different since it's you though, right?

Calling the cops would be logical because it's the law. I didn't say bullying is okay, I said it's a natural instinct....

No you DID say bullying was OK. Read your post above.



[edit on 16-4-2009 by jfj123]

After reading all 6(edit to add in a half) pages of this thread, I have come to the conclusion that some people in here wouldn't like what the government wants to do to try to "stop bullying".

I guess some people would agree with subjecting every child to a mental evaluation before entering school and have one done every time the pass to the next grade. Or better yet how about we conduct full background investigations of all the parents that have kids. Please get a grip.

What needs to happen is the schools need to be able to deal with the bullies. Right now they can't because the same people that are saying we need to brainwash.. err fill kids with compassion and all kinds of nonsense, will be the very same people crying foul when the principle of the school jacks the bully up against the wall, or the resource officer throws him to the ground.

The fact is you want the bullying to stop, but at the same time you don't want to take the proper course of action for it to stop. As someone else put it earlier in the thread, "mental gymnastics" and there is absolutely no logic to that type of thought process.

Look, its life. Even adults go on rampages and kill people when something doesn't go their way. That is just the way it is. We are humans, I think people forget that we started off living just like animals, hunters and gathers and then moved on to farming then advanced civilizations. We are just highly advanced primitive beings. We are still animals.

There could be lots of reasons for this situation to happen like it did. But you know what, its life. People live and people die. Some people live till they are 110 or more and some baby's don't even make it out of the womb. No matter how much you wish or how you want society to progress kids are always going to bully, kids are going to get bullied, kids will cut themselves and some kids will kill themselves some kids will go on homicidal rampages and then kill themselves.

It's life, and you can dream and wish and believe what ever you want to believe, but that is just the way it is. Nothing is going to change it. No economic system, no amount of mental treatment no good parenting nothing is going to change it. As someone else put it in the thread some people are just "defective".

That is life. You can't save everybody and when you try to save 1% of people you end up screwing it up for the other 99%. Life's hard, you have to learn to deal with it, because when you're 40 years old there isn't going to be anybody for you to run too.


Edited for grammar.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Hastobemoretolife]

Originally posted by jfj123


So what's the difference if a child bullies another child or an adult bullies another adult? That's why I gave you the example of a bully taking your food and house. If you think bullying is ok, then it's ok in general. You can't have it both ways. So no calling the cops, just take it. If a bigger, stronger person wants your house and you can't stop them, you lose your house. Just a different version of bullying. I bet it's now different since it's you though, right?

[edit on 16-4-2009 by jfj123]

It's not comparable, school bullying isn't a crime, home robbery is.

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by zippy1958
Grow a pair?? Do you people have any idea what this child went through before hanging himself? The torment he must have felt. Where is your compassion? You obviously have none.

I am sickened by this thread. It shows how most straight people really feel about gay people. Oh, no big deal...one less fag in the world.

My heart broke for this poor kid. Bullying has NO place in a peaceful world.

You are absolutely 100% correct !!!
But please don't condemn all us hetero's ok ?

I am also sickened with the attitudes I've seen here.
Shouldn't we protect the weak? Help the helpless so to speak.

And frankly anyone who saw this abuse going on and did nothing should be ashamed of themselves.
We as a society have been turning a blind eye to abuse for too long. We need to start getting involved.

Oh I am not condemning ALL heteros. Notice I said "most straight people".

I have seen a big change in attitudes towards gays in the last few years. It is just not very apparent on this thread where I think it should be the MOST apparent.

You are one of the few standing up for this young boy and I did notice that and applaud you.

reply to post by Common Good


Notice the father is not even mentioned?

Where was he other than in bed with mom 9 months before he was born?

Unless mom is a widow, I blame the father, for not being there for his son.

Originally posted by Leto
Originally posted by jfj123


So what's the difference if a child bullies another child or an adult bullies another adult? That's why I gave you the example of a bully taking your food and house. If you think bullying is ok, then it's ok in general. You can't have it both ways. So no calling the cops, just take it. If a bigger, stronger person wants your house and you can't stop them, you lose your house. Just a different version of bullying. I bet it's now different since it's you though, right?

[edit on 16-4-2009 by jfj123]

It's not comparable, school bullying isn't a crime, home robbery is.

Of course it's comparable. Bullying is bullying.
And many times bullying involves assault. Let's not pretend it doesn't.
When a bully steals a childs lunch, books, lunch money, etc... it's the childs equivalent of someone stealing your car or house. You minimize it because it's not you.

Again, bullying is bullying and yes it is comparable.
You don't want a child to hide behind the someone yet you want to hide behind the police. Remember it's instinct right?


[edit on 16-4-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by zippy1958

Grow a pair?? Do you people have any idea what this child went through before hanging himself? The torment he must have felt. Where is your compassion? You obviously have none.

I am sickened by this thread. It shows how most straight people really feel about gay people. Oh, no big deal...one less fag in the world.

My heart broke for this poor kid. Bullying has NO place in a peaceful world.

You are absolutely 100% correct !!!
But please don't condemn all us hetero's ok ?

I am also sickened with the attitudes I've seen here.
Shouldn't we protect the weak? Help the helpless so to speak.

And frankly anyone who saw this abuse going on and did nothing should be ashamed of themselves.
We as a society have been turning a blind eye to abuse for too long. We need to start getting involved.

Oh I am not condemning ALL heteros. Notice I said "most straight people".

Very true. My bad

I have seen a big change in attitudes towards gays in the last few years. It is just not very apparent on this thread where I think it should be the MOST apparent.

I'm honestly not sure why we can't just get along. Why people need to insult and berate those who are different when in reality, we're all different.

You are one of the few standing up for this young boy and I did notice that and applaud you.

Thank you. And to you as well.

Why is so difficult to simply explain to children that being mean is not appropriate in this society? Respect begets respect. If a parent can't teach a child something so basic, they have no right to be a parent.

Originally posted by CharlesMartel
reply to post by Common Good

 

Notice the father is not even mentioned?

Where was he other than in bed with mom 9 months before he was born?

Unless mom is a widow, I blame the father, for not being there for his son.

I'm sure the child did have some mental issues due to his home environment but I think many here are missing the other side of it. Regardless, those bullies pushed the child over the edge and those bullies parents failure to raise their children allowed the bullying to happen in the first place.
That child who died, deserved a chance to become a better person but that was taken away from him by a bunch of heartless individuals who didn't care who they destroyed with their venom.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jfj123

Originally posted by Leto
Originally posted by jfj123


So what's the difference if a child bullies another child or an adult bullies another adult? That's why I gave you the example of a bully taking your food and house. If you think bullying is ok, then it's ok in general. You can't have it both ways. So no calling the cops, just take it. If a bigger, stronger person wants your house and you can't stop them, you lose your house. Just a different version of bullying. I bet it's now different since it's you though, right?

[edit on 16-4-2009 by jfj123]

It's not comparable, school bullying isn't a crime, home robbery is.

Of course it's comparable. Bullying is bullying.
And many times bullying involves assault. Let's not pretend it doesn't.
When a bully steals a childs lunch, books, lunch money, etc... it's the childs equivalent of someone stealing your car or house. You minimize it because it's not you.

Again, bullying is bullying and yes it is comparable.
You don't want a child to hide behind the someone yet you want to hide behind the police. Remember it's instinct right?


[edit on 16-4-2009 by jfj123]

You're not understanding the difference between a negative behavior (bullying) and a crime (house robbery). You know why kids who steal in elementary school aren't sent to jail? Because it's a learning process, these children don't have the necessary experience to comprehend why stealing and bullying is bad. School gives them the opportunity to learn why stealing and bullying is wrong.

reply to post by Leto


No, its cruetly and barbaric out of control patriarchal energy in this world that leads to suicide. Gentleness, compassion and cooperation is what this world needs, and our children, our sons, need this to be drilled into them from the time their babies, to care, to help, to look out for the vulnerable ones. To notice anyone who sits alone each day and go and say "hi!" and stand up for them when others pick on them. This is something I've talked with my boys about over and over again. This world is out of control ugliness and it needs compassion and softness ASAP.

Another one that has got to go is "That's so Jewish." It offends me (even though I'm not of the Jewish faith), it disgusts me, and it shocks me more than anything because of how prejudice people don't realize it to be...

I think this one example of an eleven year old killing himself over being called "gay" isn't enough to say that things are that awful in this society. It's so easy to call it a wimp generation or that society is getting soft, because it really isn't. It's not like there are reports of 11 or 12 year old hanging themselves everyday over little things. But regardless of age, suicide is the cowards way out. Yes this kid is a wimp, and other kids that are like him are wimps. But that's ok, there is always a chance to learn to overcome it, they just need to find that in themselves, some are braver than others but I've always believed that courage is something that can grow overtime. Some are late bloomers, but later is better than never.

Growing up I had been bullied, called names, embarrassed, had atomic wedgies, made a joke out of, but I did get through it. And I had what some would call a not so perfect environment at home, but I made the best of it. It's not like I was abused, but there were lots of problems at home. But I'm not alone, there are countless kids out there that have endured worse and they made it out ok. Kids are cruel, that's how it has always been and it's how it always will be. Back in the day everyone would single out the fat kid in class even worse than they do today. It's a phase that kids go through during this time of their lives, some take out their insecurities out on others (bullies) and other's are to scared to fight back. The only way to stop from being bullied is to not give them a reason to pick on you.

Unfortunately, it does end up in a fight, but it's pretty time proven way to stop the bullying. You show you aren't going to take it from someone, then you won't be bullied. I think it's wrong saying it's the parents fault. It is in only a small way but not completely. The parents of the bully could either be unfit parents or very good parents and the same can be said of the bullied kid. It all comes down to the individual. Mommy either didn't hold them enough or held them too much, but parents aren't to blame. The parent's can help the situation of course by talking with the other kids parent's, but that ends up being a bad idea, cause their kid will probably get beat up even more. I think that when a kid is in this kind of situation the parent's should have their kid take boxing lessons, or some kind of martial art that'll teach them not only how to defend themselves physically when it get's to that and how to handle verbal abuse such as name calling.

When I went through this time where kids would call me names, at first It used to bother me, but then I learned to insult them right back. If they called me gay, it'd say something like it takes one to know one right? Or something along the lines, but unfortunately this kid does what a lot of kids do and just take it too personally. Talking back always resulted in getting beaten, but that's how I learned how to fight. I learned to fight back, and that is something a bully or any oppressor is afraid of, cause they themselves don't want a fight, they pick on the weak to feel stronger. I know that some people on this site and everywhere don't condone or support figthing as a way to solve problems, but sorry to say, it's sometimes the only way to deal with something. There's nothing wrong with being peaceful on the inside and being a warrior on the outside.

reply to post by MoothyKnight


Why does this offend you? You aren't Jewish, so you have no business being offended by it, especially if most Jews aren't offended by it. I'm sure many are, but most i've known don't take offense to it at all, in fact some take it as a compliment. This does remind me when I call my black friends the dreaded "N" word. They also call me everything from spic to wetback, so it's back and forth. What's funny is when a white person comes up and get's offended by these words, even though none of them are associated with them.

Originally posted by Zenagain
I got called much worse in grade school and didn't hang myself. I don't agree with bullying but I DO agree with growing a pair. Life sucks, get a helmet.


Edit: Just please, PLEASE don't be shooting up your schools, M'kay?

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Zenagain]

I agree that people need to be thick-skinned in the modern world. Unfortunately, not all people who face these things possess the same level of resilience as do you.

Please read through my thread on bullying - you might think differently on how to solve this ugly practice.

***Removing the Bully in Me and You***

Originally posted by jfj123

First, might I suggest your snotty attitude. You tend to get what you give.

Seems you can't discern the difference between snotty attitude and utter disbelief in one persons inability to process real information from imagined.

Originally posted by jfj123
You don't have to beat your child to discipline them.

See what I mean about imagined? At what point did ANYONE say ANYTHING about beating their kids? All I said was that parents cant DISCIPLINE their kids without fear of going to jail for it. Seems to ME that you associate discipline solely with beating children. Perhaps it's people like you who share that concept that have ensured that all these children are way too damn sensitive in the first place and cant deal with a little name calling.

Originally posted by jfj123
If you think that is your only option

I don't think it's an option at all...

Originally posted by jfj123
might I suggest you DON'T HAVE KIDS !

I dont have any nor plan on it.

Originally posted by jfj123
Nobody gets involved anymore.

Ill agree with that much

Originally posted by jfj123
Teachers see children bullying others.

Impossible for this to always be the case, they're only human.

Originally posted by jfj123
People on the street see husbands hitting their wives and have done nothing.

Of course, because every person on the street actually gets the opportunity to see this happening, and, instead of doing something, they make some popcorn and what? Pull up a lawn chair?

Originally posted by jfj123
Kids are out of control because their parents aren't adult enough to raise them.

Again this is something I'll agree with.

Originally posted by jfj123
Don't blame the state for the parents shortcomings.

LMAO im definitively NOT blaming the state...I'm blaming people like you who are making it too soft on kids and as a result they can't deal with the harsher realities of life. Oooooops, I'm sorry, will I get a timeout for that remark? Better head to My PSP or Xbox and feel better about the timeout.

Originally posted by jfj123
Try your own reality check, PAL.

Have done so a long time ago.

Originally posted by jfj123
Stop making excuses and start doing something about the problem.

I am not a parent so I don't exactly have a vested interest in "the problem", however, that notwithstanding I DID do something about the problem, just a few seconds ago. I made you aware that your mentality is a direct result of causing it. That's about as far as I'm willing to go to correct "the problem".


AB1

[edit on 16-4-2009 by alphabetaone]

[edit on 16-4-2009 by alphabetaone]

To be honest, THE WAY THE NWO divides and conquers is that T.H.E.Y[the hierarchy enslaving you] creat.ez a new word everyday and the more words you have the more diversion you have, also the more words you have the more of a difference there will be in the community of people, SO YES THOSE WORDS CAN KILL... and there are t000 many :/ ?



[edit on 17-4-2009 by JonilyNobily33D]