When Words Can Kill: 'That's So Gay'

I don't like this *Well I was taunted and called names at school,didnt do me any harm!" yes well the key word is I..you are not this little boy and you have no idea how it affected him personally or how he reacted to such comments.I do agree that we are cushioning child hood somewhat..you just have to look at here in the Uk and health and safety to see what i mean.But again,not everyone reacts to such things the same way..some people it goes in one ear and out the other and they couldn't give a flying scooby snack,others act like it doesn't bother them and ponder over it when they are alone and sometimes it destroys people in more ways than one.You will NEVER get rid of people like this who taunt,tease and ridicule others.But there should have been more support for this little guy and i think its a sad story.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira

His parents never scolded him before?

Possibly you'd be amazed to find out how many kids are growing up without scolding, or any other type of parenting in their lives. Parents now days seem concerned that disciplining their children will lead to their kids not wanting to be the parents "friends", or something. Maybe the parents are just so weak that they will avoid a "confrontation" with their kids at all costs. I've witnessed this first hand when a sister-in-law announced that they would not be saying no to their kids. Result? One daughter had an abortion at 14. Another daughter is a nutcase that is afraid to ride in elevators and won't do her schoolwork. All three daughters still live at home even though the oldest 2 are 27 and 24.

Really sad, almost pitiful ...

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Another by-product of the Myspace Generation.

Detached, empty shells with no social skills, overly-thin skinned, no sense of responsibility or desire for the greater good in life and very easily traumatised and depressed by things that should gloss right over them.

This is what happens when you bring up kids in this overly "sanitised", heavily regulated and structured environment.

They just fall apart later on in life, when their parents give them more leeway and less smothering and the world eats up them with a spoon.

A kid called him "gay" and this boy never before realised that people don't have to like you?
His parents never scolded him before? Never called him a name? Never told him he's gonna run into people who hate his guts?

Kids at that age are fighting in wars in certain parts of the world and yet in the West we have kids becoming depressed before they even hit puberty.

Really sad. That's all about you can say.

What's your problem, he was involved with church activites and things like that, so his social skills were fine. Some people are born more sensitive than others, so for some of the people here they might be able to be beat over the head with a brick for an hour and hardly feel a thing, and others like in this person's case could actually feel something.

You don't care at all about this death, and its pathetic. People that don't want to acknowledge that gays are abused, blame the gay person!

Again you don't know anything about this person's life and how tough he had it. I don't even know what to say to you, you're hopeless. As a Nurse, I'm appalled and if you're going to speak like you know something, have an educational background to back it up. I can assure you there are people much much smarter than you and more educated in psychology, healthcare in general, and the public education system and they wouldn't agree with you in the slightest.

Kids are wussies these days. I got my butt kicked in front of the whole school, not once but twice, by the same gang, and I didn't kill myself. Parents need to stop babying their kids and show them how to toughen up some.

Hopeless. This kid was not a wuss. And again, no one cares about you and your "difficulties". You can't quantify pain, sorry but you can't.

This is a needless death in that 'gay' these days means 'not cool' - that is no reason to die.

When calling a person gay, it does not mean "not cool". It is that way for objects since they can't be gay...

Again, anyone here gay? No? Then politely shut up, because you don't even have the slightest understanding of what his life might have been like.



[edit on 16-4-2009 by ghaleon12]

reply to post by ghaleon12


Since when is being involved in "Church activities" tantamount to a finely honed set of social skills?

That said, I find it counter-productive to you attacking anyone's intellect based solely upon your opinion. What do you know about genetic engineering? Or Social engineering? Or Terraforming? My guess would be nothing or not much, which I'm sure would explain the fact that you chose nursing over the aforementioned as your career path. Simply because he may or may not be a psychologist doesn't mean that his opinion on the subject is of any less value than yours.


AB1

His mother found him hanging by an extension cord just minutes before she was going to meet with school authorities.

This right here might be a key in the *rest of the story* many people are looking for.

The kid had a history of abuse.
Did he also have a history of abuse at home?

I can just hear what happened when he told his Mom.

Mother freaks out - going on and on and on and on while this poor kid sits there and listens to her venting - he’s feeling more miserable by the second, knowing he just made a huge mistake by telling...

So Mom continues the tirade using this excuse to flip a wig screaming and yelling and venting frustration over her own inadequate life - probably slandering the Father in the process, then the school, then teachers, and by this time the poor kid is wishing to hell he never said a word about getting bullied.

To top it off now Mom’s going to the School - to Yell and Scream at School - to Freak Out at School where EVERYONE is going to HEAR her and know he told his Mommy about getting called Gay...

So he tried to convince her Not to go, to Forget about it, to just Pretend it Never Happened...

“They’re not going to get away with doing this to MY boy!” (Her anger focused on slander towards her person not on the poor kid)...

Coincidence he waits until she’s just about to walk out the door to kill himself?
I think not.
“Mommy Pleaseeee don‘t go“ is probably the last thing she heard him cry...

Oh yeah, I think there’s a lot of this behind why the kid freaked and figured Mom going on a jag at school would only make his life more miserable, might as well go kill himself.

Poor little thing... Peace on him...

Oh, and to you *bleeps* who think this kid needed a *bigger pair*?

I bet you were the bullies when you were in school - and you haven't grown out of it one bit have you...

Originally posted by alphabetaone
reply to post by ghaleon12

 

Since when is being involved in "Church activities" tantamount to a finely honed set of social skills?

That said, I find it counter-productive to you attacking anyone's intellect based solely upon your opinion. What do you know about genetic engineering? Or Social engineering? Or Terraforming? My guess would be nothing or not much, which I'm sure would explain the fact that you chose nursing over the aforementioned as your career path. Simply because he may or may not be a psychologist doesn't mean that his opinion on the subject is of any less value than yours.


AB1

Why did you imply that he didn't have social skills? Again, you guys know nothing about this person. I see nothing but stupidity from so many of you, I can assure you that professionals would not hold a similar opinion to yours. A person who understands psychology and has training in itdoes have a better grasp on the situation.

Some of you are unbelievable, I can just see it now. "Rachel was raped at 13 and that's when she started becoming anorexic? Oh my Gosh, I was raped by uncle Joe when I was 5 and I'm doing great now!, what's her problem?" or "Rachel was raped at 13 and killed herself after? Jeez, what a loser. She needs to grow some balls, she way waaay too sensitive. This is because of the myspace generation and her parents of course".

Some of you guys hardly understand anything. In Nursing/med school if anyone had this mentality, you'd be promptly beat (ok not really, but professors would be pissed) and kicked out of the school and rightfully so. I'm done wasting my time here in this thread.


[edit on 16-4-2009 by ghaleon12]

If she wasnt such an ignorant mother she could have prevented this. Seems parents these days are to worried about "Lost" tv show then preparing theselves to raise a child.

The parents of the child that killed himself and the parents of the children that mocked him for being gay never deserved children.

Parents these days are to stupid.

You people do not understand that many males are very sensitive, not all males are butch like the media shows you.

He may or not been scolded on occaion with his parents, this does not matter.

Get this.

All males are not all alike, period, so stop trying to stereotype people altogether. This is what may have forced him to commit suicide, i.e not fitting in.

Hah, now normally i am quite the sensitive and warm individual but in this case i have to say i agree that the child should have been prepared by his parents for that eventuality. Sorry to say it and i feel bad for the mother, but "WIMP" applies. What? You're going to kill yourself over a few words and a little pain?! Oh please.

I guess i was lucky enough that my father taught me to not give a crap what anyone else says and never take any of it from anyone. Ignore them if they bother you. and if they get physical... Rip into them like a rabid dog. They never bother you again.

Children these days DO need to toughen up, IMHO.

Originally posted by silo13

His mother found him hanging by an extension cord just minutes before she was going to meet with school authorities.

To top it off now Mom’s going to the School - to Yell and Scream at School - to Freak Out at School where EVERYONE is going to HEAR her and know he told his Mommy about gettin“They’re not going to get away with doing this to MY boy!” (Her anger focused on slander towards her person not on the poor kid)...

Coincidence he waits until she’s just about to walk out the door to kill himself?
I think not.
“Mommy Pleaseeee don‘t go“ is probably the last thing she heard him cry...

Oh yeah, I think there’s a lot of this behind why the kid freaked and figured Mom going on a jag at school would only make his life more miserable, might as well go kill himself.

Poor little thing... Peace on him...

Oh, and to you *bleeps* who think this kid needed a *bigger pair*?

I bet you were the bullies when you were in school - and you haven't grown out of it one bit have you...

silo13 may have hit the bullseye.... two thumbs up mate.

What's wrong with you people? Bigger pair? Have you been bullied? Or were you the bully?

I've been bullied and it really sucked. I then put the guy's head through the wall, sending him to the hospital, never to return again. The bullying stopped.

Bigger pair? Suicide isn't about being overly sensitive and upset about one issue. It's about that huge pile of manure that you happen to be swimming in. Suicide is not an answer, it's not a solution, it's an escape from EVERYTHING.

There's no way the kid hung himself because he was called gay. Did bullies say that "Oh... we only called him gay... nothing more"? Did he reveal all the truth to his mother? Was his mother abusing him?

It's bullies' fault. It's school's fault. It's his parents' fault. It may even be his fault. What's to talk about?

The only people who REALLY screw kids up are their parents... Those are the people you expect to have your back, but most of the times - they don't. They've got their own problems to worry about.

"Grow a bigger pair..." Think before you write...

XIIIth

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by Zenagain

 

I believe that every kid in school has to go through this. Its a part of growing up and knowing oneself.

Edited your post for clarity

Every kid in school has to go through this? That is part of the problem, when people see things like this taking place, and instead of stepping up and putting a stop to bullies, they shrug their shoulders and say exactly what you did. Children should NOT have to go through these things. That is why we have adult bullies, because as children they learn it is acceptable behavior when people look the other way. Most children bullies, not all, have parents who are themselves bullies. I have learned this with my work in the school system. I seriously dislike dealing with the parents of bullies, because MOST of the time, one or both of the parents are bullies.

Vitchilo, saying the parents are at fault as they must not of had a good relationship with their child is making assumptions. My daughter went through bullying in middle school, at first she did not talk with me about it, even though we have a great relationship. She had spoken with a teacher about the situation, and was basically blown off, and felt that what was taking place was "her problem" and that she should "grow up" enough to deal with this on her own. She internalized the situation and became depressed. We found out when one of her bullies became physical with her. I had known that something was up, but I did not know exactly what. I can only be thankful that once we did find out, she opened up and explained everything. Because of the physical violence of the bullies, my daughter was given protection, in the form of the school police, principle and vice principle. In the end, my daughter learned that the way to deal with bullies, was to get the RIGHT adult involvement. That NO she was not the problem, the bullies were the problem and the teacher that she went to was wrong in her statements to my daughter. The problem, is the adults around children who look the other way when bullying takes place.

My daughter was taught to not fight (physical), she was taught to respect people, she was taught compassion, gentleness and love. She would not fight back against these bullies because to do so went against her personality and beliefs in not harming people. People here who are saying because she is a gentle loving person, then bullies choosing to harm her was her fault and she should have "grown some", are ignorant and stupid. The bullies are the ones who chose to cause harm, this is one way we are teaching our children to not be responsible for their actions, by ignoring their bullying and blaming the victim for not "growing some". Basically telling children that being a bully is ok, because if someone can't take being bullied, that is their problem. Instead of teaching bullies that harming another person is WRONG, we tell the kids who are being hurt to "grow some".

Take it this way, if someone else chooses to pick up a gun(bully) and shoot you(the one being bullied), who is the problem? You for not getting out of the way of the bullet? Or the person who chose to shoot you? Basically here many of you who are telling the children who are being bullied that they are at fault as they did not jump out of the way of the bullet, or they did not pick up their own gun(grow some) and shoot back, or (grow some) and just let the bullets bounce off of them.

Calling children wimps who cannot take bullying, is the problem, the bullies are the problem, the adults looking the other way are the problem, not the children being bullied. Can we say "blaming the victim"?

WOW, just WOW that people would tell an 11 year old to "grow some", he was a child people, reading the postings here, seriously points to what is wrong with our society, the common theme seems to be blame the victim and pat the bullies on the back by saying "it is just a kid thing".

I sincerely hope that some day, adults can "grow some" and stop blaming the children who were bullied. Blaming the victim, is the easy way out.

I am sad for this family and their child.

Peace

reply to post by ghaleon12


Your argument has so many holes on so many levels I'm not quite certain where to begin, but I will try.

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Why did you imply that he didn't have social skills?

Please point out for me where *I* was implying he had none. I can suggest that perhaps he didn't, that should not predicate the reality however. Yet, I still challenge you to point out to me where *I* suggested that he didn't?

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Again, you guys know nothing about this person.

Then clearly, you must have been the case worker assigned to this kid and know everything about him. Were that true, you would have failed miserably.

Originally posted by ghaleon12
I see nothing but stupidity from so many of you, I can assure you that professionals would not hold a similar opinion to yours. A person who understands psychology and has training in itdoes have a better grasp on the situation.

The below is a writeup from Nancy Brisby, a social worker and parenting coach AND published, whose view seems to run completely counter to yours. Could you please write to her also and explain to her how uneducated she is, with all her loss of moral value and insensitivity?

Source

Bullying can be physical, verbal, relational, and even all three together. Any kind of bullying is very painful. As a parent, you can take an active role to help stop it. In some cases, a parent will need to get the school and/or the other parent involved as the problem may be too dangerous for the child to handle alone.

Oftentimes, out of the best intentions, we try to shield our children from emotional pain. Some of you may find my next statement surprising: We should want our children to feel some emotional pain when they are in our homes. Why?!? Because 18 years goes by fast, and when children are allowed to feel emotional pain while we are available as parents to support and teach them, they become more resilient.

When children are bullied in elementary school, feel that pain, and try out different solutions, they build their resilience muscle. When they know they can seek and receive the help they need, they become stronger. Children learn they can get through the situation when parents are available to offer support and help children brainstorm solutions. They gain strength and discover they are capable (key to self-esteem). This strength helps them as they face challenges in middle school and beyond.

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Some of you are unbelievable, I can just see it now. "Rachel was raped at 13 and that's when she started becoming anorexic?

We're not talking about rape or anorexia, we're talking about a suicide.

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Some of you guys hardly understand anything.

Yes, it certainly seems that some of us hardly do, I will agree.

AB1

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


The bottom line is life is too easy for kids these days. The PC crowd have done a lot to create this situation.

LIFE IS NOT FAIR! If you want to do something, you have to fight for it, and play dirty if necessary to get there!

They should have taught their kid to be friendly and kind to others, but to stand up for themselves when got at.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by mirageofdeceit]

Originally posted by ghaleon12
Hopeless. This kid was not a wuss. And again, no one cares about you and your "difficulties". You can't quantify pain, sorry but you can't.

So you'll berate someone for not caring about a person and their difficulties and then tell them no one cares about them and there difficulties a few sentences later? How you are able to perform these mental gymnastics is beyond me.

This is no doubt a tragedy, but bullies are not the only ones to blame here. As some have said, parenting and societal coddling no doubt played their part, and yes, this child, no matter how sensitive, could have done with some "toughening up". It's a harsh reality out there and not everyone is going to like you or treat you with the respect you deserve; especially in school. Lack of self-confidence and self-respect are the culprits here.

And for those who would argue that it takes courage to commit suicide, you're misguided at best. Suicide is a way out.
It takes courage to live.

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
Another by-product of the Myspace Generation.

Detached, empty shells with no social skills, overly-thin skinned, no sense of responsibility or desire for the greater good in life and very easily traumatised and depressed by things that should gloss right over them.

I have to agree with this. Some of the things I went through in 6th grade were far worse than what this kid went through. I even laugh at them today, especially the whole hogtied and tossed in a dumpster gag.

I'm trying to remember if I even knew what suicide was when I was 11, let alone know a technique to commit it. We all had names we called each other as kids, that's one of the great things about being a kid, or it was when I was a kid anyway. It was see who could come up with the best put downs. I want to know what happened to the days of the your mama jokes. Some of the best laughs at recess was watching two kids rip on each others moms. I grew up knowing the bigger kids always picked on the little kids. As one of the littler kids in class I learned this fast. When I started fighting back they moved on to other kids.

With that said, somebody really needed to be there for this kid. This might have been prevented if somebody in the know took the time to help him. The blame can be laid at so many feet on this we don't know where to begin. Was it the bullies faults? Was it the school's fault for not noticing? Was it the parents' faults for not knowing what is going on in their son's life?

I feel one way to help in this is for parents to teach their children well. Most parents today are too busy to help develop good values in their kids and rely on the schools to do it. Every parent went to school, we all know what it's like. If you have a child getting ready to go into school and you think your child might be bullied or picked on, prepare them for it. If you feel your child might be a bully do something to change it.

And get them off the damn computers and game consoles and get them out into the fresh air. Kids don't know how to be social anymore unless it involves a PC, XBOX, or PS3. What happened to grabbing your bat and glove, walking to the park and meeting all the neighborhood kids there for a game? The parks and ball fields around here are empty except for the adult softball leagues. Youth truly is wasted on the young.

Some children are so mentally fragile that we must have moderators at every school, moderating every conversation, just like here.-Fragile posters might kill themeselves.

Click here for more information.

reply to post by rapinbatsisaltherage


The lives of children/ young adolescence hold a mirror up .... to the lives of adults.
They imitate/reflect our value systems, or lack there of.

Ethnicity
Disability
Sexual orientation
etc
etc
etc
........... choose your poison.

I wonder was there enough support for the child considering .....

"I have been homeless, but Carl and I made it through," said Walker. "I was a victim of domestic violence, and we made it through. The one thing we couldn't get through was public school."

To those who bark "grow a pair ! "
FFS he was 11 years old .

Children need protecting, not a hectoring .

---------------------------------------------------
We now have marketing company's targeting adolescents aggressively 24/7, grooming their "product base" year on year.

This encroachment of our adult world into the lives of our children should stop.

Perhaps instead of expecting our children to make the adjustments
........, we the adults should .
-----------------------------------------------------
Children will always fight and call names , but their invectives should be those of a child and not of an adult.

Let them be kids for as long as possible .......
In these weary economic times , who could begrudge them that ?

Seriously wtf is wrong with kids these days? I think it's a reflection on our society-no accountability for your actions, it's ok to be a jerk because no one will do anything. Honestly somebody older should just walk up and kick their punk asses like in Bad Santa (loved that movie).

Maybe he should have at least tried to kick their asses first, then give up. Although if it's a bunch of older kids that could get ugly. I know what it's like to deal with bullies, it made early school really lousy.

Originally posted by CapsFan8
I know what it's like to deal with bullies, it made early school really lousy.

And there is exactly the key. You got through it!

This is exactly what should have happened with Carl too. He should have been able to get through it (lousy or otherwise).


AB1