When Words Can Kill: 'That's So Gay'

reply to post by Zenagain


Had that kid attempted to defend himself, what do you think would have happened? It would have been him against a crowd. He obviously felt he had no recourse...and I find that very sad, who knows what that kid could have become, had someone amongst his peers stepped forward and said, "Enough".

I hope those conscienceless bastards live long lives so that they can come to realize just what it is they did...and the peer group that didn't step up to help this kid.

[edit on 4/17/2009 by seagull]

Originally posted by Zenagain
I got called much worse in grade school and didn't hang myself. I don't agree with bullying but I DO agree with growing a pair. Life sucks, get a helmet.


Edit: Just please, PLEASE don't be shooting up your schools, M'kay?

[edit on 16-4-2009 by Zenagain]

But with rules in schools now you can't defend yourself.

Bullies will call kids names and when they try to either say something back they get in trouble too.

Students are not allowed to defend themselves either physically or vervbally without them too getting in trouble.

My lil bro is in highschool, the same highschool i graduated from 6 years ago and I guess now if somebody jumps you or tries to fight your or starts swinging on you basically you can't fight back.

If they punch you like 6-10 times and you even throw a wildly missed jab just to get him of you, you also get a 10 day suspension for " throwing a punch " too.

According to my brother ( whom I trust and whom has witnessed 5-6 fights in his 2 years there ) , the administration tells the kids to run away or go to the office and tell on them. But, if the bully is chasing you down the whole time and throwing you around and hitting you, you have to take the beating.

Also if they are bigger than you and prevent you from running away, you are just supposed to take the beating and if you try to defend yourself you are just as guilty as the bully.


That is the stupid mentality these days with our schools. They try to baby everything and make everything safe but they fail to realize, that the bad kids will be bad kids, and no the good kids can't even defend themselves.


I'm not even pumping this story up for a wow factor, this is exactly how it is.

They don't even deal with the bullies. Yea they might get sent to the office, but they are back at it again the next day.

I was never really bullied and when I was I didn't take # and fought back ( middle school ), but when I fought in 7th grade , because I was defending myself, I didn't even get suspended or anything because my teacher saw me defending myself.

They used logic and common sense and realized that was my only choice.

Also good for me was that I whooped his arse. He was a karate kid about the same size as me who would always talk a lot of shey to me and one day he kicked me in the back and I just went ape shatz on him.


The people need to be able to police them selves somewhat. And by people I mean students.

That kid never even looked at me again besides the one time the next day when he appologized.

He learned his lesson and never bullied anybody again.


Kind of unrelated but has the same effect.

Hockey. Hockey players are allowed to police themselves out on the ice. They all respect the game and tradition and when somebody starts getting out of line, they must deal with that consequence right then and there.

If they took away fighting, players would do more dirty hits and cheap shots as that would be the only way to take out your anger and frustration.

This kid probably had no outlet for that and he made a young dumb decision , and uneducated and youthful ignorant decision to end his young life.


I feel really bad for that kid that he had to deal with that.

Originally posted by seagull

Had that kid attempted to defend himself, what do you think would have happened? It would have been him against a crowd.

Yea brilliant, so instead hang yourself from a cord, great alternative.

Originally posted by seagull
He obviously felt he had no recourse...and I find that very sad,

What are you talking about? No recourse?? There is SO MUCH recourse it's not even funny. And clearly it doesn't START with self-destruction. Gimme a break and enough already with the melodramatic effect.

Originally posted by seagull
who knows what that kid could have become, had someone amongst his peers stepped forward and said, "Enough".

And I imagine that you have some kind of picture handy which would indicate than any of his peers were around at the time apart from the (let us not forget) ALLEGED bullies.

Originally posted by seagull
I hope those consciouncless bastards live long lives so that they can come to realize just what it is they did...and the peer group that didn't step up to help this kid.

Again, you couldn't possibly begin to procure anything that even remotely has any semblance to proof that such "conscienceless bastards" even exist, primarily.

Secondarily, again, you're being melodramatic toward a situation that has been pervasive since before you were born AND is just an unfortunate way of life.


AB1

Originally posted by Boxygirl
Nope i have been like a lurker for yeeeeaaarrrrsss now. Its like survuval of the fitest if he could not take being called gay what chance did he stand in life? Its kind of like eugenics but they kill themselves off

Go tell your jokes to his parents.

second line

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Zenagain

 

Had that kid attempted to defend himself, what do you think would have happened? It would have been him against a crowd. He obviously felt he had no recourse...and I find that very sad, who knows what that kid could have become, had someone amongst his peers stepped forward and said, "Enough".

I hope those consciouncless bastards live long lives so that they can come to realize just what it is they did...and the peer group that didn't step up to help this kid.

Had the kid attempted to defend himself chances are the bullies would leave him alone.

Originally posted by Leto
Had the kid attempted to defend himself chances are the bullies would leave him alone.

How can you say that, do people stop bullying people because the victim stands up, i doubt it seriously.

Thats a myth that standing upto bullies in groups stop bullying. One person against a group, and especially that he was 11.

reply to post by alphabetaone


Did you even bother to read my post? Clearly you missed a word or two...

I said he felt he had no recourse. Not that there wasn't.

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by seagull

Had that kid attempted to defend himself, what do you think would have happened? It would have been him against a crowd.


Yea brilliant, so instead hang yourself from a cord, great alternative.

Did you notice his age? You seem to think he had an adults sense of priorities. He didn't and he is dead, and to some of us, it is sad, and unnecessary. Go ahead with your jokes though, I am sure you are scoring points with someone.

Originally posted by seagull
He obviously felt he had no recourse...and I find that very sad,


What are you talking about? No recourse?? There is SO MUCH recourse it's not even funny. And clearly it doesn't START with self-destruction. Gimme a break and enough already with the melodramatic effect.

Again, did you notice his age ? Sorry if the death of a minor seems Melodramatic to some.

Why don't you go pound sand up your ass?

Originally posted by seagull
who knows what that kid could have become, had someone amongst his peers stepped forward and said, "Enough".


And I imagine that you have some kind of picture handy which would indicate than any of his peers were around at the time apart from the (let us not forget) ALLEGED bullies.

Being an ignorant a-hole comes completely natural to you. It's like you have found your calling.

Originally posted by seagull
I hope those consciouncless bastards live long lives so that they can come to realize just what it is they did...and the peer group that didn't step up to help this kid.

Again, you couldn't possibly begin to procure anything that even remotely has any semblance to proof that such "conscienceless bastards" even exist, primarily.

Secondarily, again, you're being melodramatic toward a situation that has been pervasive since before you were born AND is just an unfortunate way of life.

I suspect you were responsible for more then one unfortunate incident in your school years.

Keep on defending that life you used to live,...

Smarmy prick.

reply to post by Leto


That's a crock of poo. Makes for a great movie though...

There would have been a bullie pile all over that kid. Only your delusions say otherwise. Gangs like that are like sharks, once blood is spilled they all pile in...

I posted this in another thread but thought I would post it here as well.

I would like to suggest some reading for parents who's children may be dealing with bullies. Both books are by Rosalind Wiseman, one is called "Queen Bees & Wannabees", and the other is called "Queen Bee Mom's & Kingpin Dad's".

They are great books to get parents started. The first one talks about how to support children who are being bullied, and how to teach them techniques to deal with bullies in a healthy way. The other is to assist adults who may be dealing with adult bullies. The second one is very important, as many times if you are dealing with child bullies, and you have to speak with the child's parents, you may be dealing with adult bullies.

When my daughter was dealing with bullies in Middle School, after we found out, I bought these books. I read the first one, and then had my daughter read it. As she read each chapter we would talk about that chapter, and how the suggestions/etc fit her situation and how she might be able to use these in her life. Not only was this a way for she and I to bond, but another way to assist her with being stronger emotionally, in the end the books were a stepping stone to increasing her self esteem.

Both books have great ideas and suggestions on how to deal with bullies, be they adults or children. The biggest problem I see with the books is that they are mainly dealing with bullies from the perspective of girls, but most of the techniques can be transferred over when dealing with boys.

Peace

The kid didn't kill himself because he was called 'gay'. He killed himself because he was bullied, and the school authorities did nothing to stop it or protect him. True, most kids don't hang themselves when they are bullied. But some do. Some are not as well able to protect themselves as others.

"Grow a pair" is easy to say, but some kids don't have that option. Their personalities may be more fragile. They may have had to struggle with other issues most kids don't face. They may have had some sort of psychological vulnerability to abuse. Whatever it was, this child didn't have the option to just "grow a pair".

Saying such a thing is similar to telling a blind kid to "watch where he's going", or a paraplegic kid to "get off his ass". Sure, most kids can watch where they're going, or get off their asses. But not everyone. Most of us - even kids in grade school - wouldn't put up with someone tripping a blind child, or beating up a paraplegic kid. Yet they're fine with bullying a sensitive, vulnerable kid who, for whatever reason, isn't able to stand up to a hostile gang of bullies.

And our society and schools allow such mistreatment, and then wring their hands and wonder why some kids wind up committing suicide. "How could this ever happen?", they moan. "Why would a young child want to kill himself?"

I'll tell you why. It's because, for some kids, the world is hell. Other kids pick on them, the teachers do nothing or even contribute to the shame. Parents don't do enough, or can't do enough. The kid learns that the world is a crappy place where people hate him. He sees no end to the suffering and hostility. He has the lesson hammered home repeatedly: "You are crap. You are unloved, unwanted, uncool." What point is there to keep living in such a hostile, bleak world?

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Leto

 

That's a crock of poo. Makes for a great movie though...

There would have been a bullie pile all over that kid. Only your delusions say otherwise. Gangs like that are like sharks, once blood is spilled they all pile in...

Yes sharks get in a frenzy when they smell blood which is why it is vital that you never show weakness. If you don't bleed, if you defend yourself, the sharks will find weaker prey.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by alphabetaone

 

Did you even bother to read my post? Clearly you missed a word or two...

I said he felt he had no recourse. Not that there wasn't.

No, I clearly missed nothing at all. You can't even state as much, you can allude that PERHAPS he felt as though he had no recourse, but you can not state that with even the slightest bit of certainty.

For all you know he knew EXACTLY what all his options were. Kids too, are more often than not overly melodramatic and at TIMES they can attempt to garner attention by doing things like these. Since (as another poster was so kind to point out here) they don't necessarily have the same value mindset as adults, they often too do not have the realization of mortality as adults do either. That being said, he may well have thought if he ATTEMPTED to do something of this nature, he would accrue the attention he was yearning for but, ooooops.

None of us will know, and he took it to the grave.


AB1

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Did you notice his age?

Yes.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
You seem to think he had an adults sense of priorities.

I absolutely don't.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
He didn't and he is dead, and to some of us, it is sad, and unnecessary.

Oh, and you don't think it is to me?

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Go ahead with your jokes though, I am sure you are scoring points with someone.

Jokes? I'm not joking, I'm just not at ALL prepared to pull out the pitchforks on a group of "bullies" that may not even exist FFS.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Again, did you notice his age ? Sorry if the death of a minor seems Melodramatic to some.

I don't find the death of a minor melodramatic. I find the reaction of some people here to be without having a full grasp on the situation.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Why don't you go pound sand up your ass?

Based upon this you expect me to accept that you have a concrete understanding of what "adult set of priorities are"?

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Being an ignorant a-hole comes completely natural to you. It's like you have found your calling.

Of course, because, like your insiders view and knowledge of what this situation is, you have that same valuable insight as to what *I* am right?

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
I suspect you were responsible for more then one unfortunate incident in your school years.

No, just plenty afterwards. Which reminds me, I was under the impression that personal attacks were no longer a part of the new ATS requisite.

Originally posted by UrsusMajor
Keep on defending that life you used to live,...

Smarmy prick.

You're seriously going to have to try and do better than that to think that I will succumb to such baiting technique. I'm fairly certain all that can be said about this issue, has been said, closed as far as I'm concerned.


AB1

First let me say that i think its terrible that a kid finds a situation so harsh that they take there own life. I know exactly where this kid was and its a dark place. you either fight back or give up. Sadly the results are dangerous regardless of what you do. My daughter has a friend that was picked on so much she had a breakdown at age 11 and is a sociaphob. She literally fears going outside around other people. She does her schooling and everythign from home.

My daughter was raised to never start a fight, to help others being picked on even if it meant standing up and being picked on yourself ... and if a fight happens ... finish it. My daughter is a skater, is in Judo and i train her in other martial arts. She has been in 4 major fights so far and she is only 13. 3 of these fights were while defending someone smaller that no one else cared to help. Rule one for my daughter is that you walk away if you can and that you use words before fists but i will never punish my child for defending herself or others. That said no one messes with her anymore because she is considered a threat by bullies.

I was one of these kids that was small for my age. I was always a target and by 12 could take a beating like no ones business. In grade 8 i spent the entire year being beat on and thrown down this steep ass hill because a group of assholes decided that i couldn't take the short cut to school and that i should walk all the way around (about 3 times the distance). As i saw it ... i had as much right to do what anyone else did and even if i went the long way these guys would find a differnet reason to kick my ass.

My mother was useless as she was a "recovering" drug addict and my dad was the x-military - "if it don't kill ya then it will just make you stronger." Ya that or crippled. Everyday i went to school and every day i got a beatdown until one day they just weren't there. They gave up and later in life they defended me when the need arose. Not everyone is going to be as pig headed as me and not all stories like this have such a simple ending.

But kids are too soft these days. I feel for the little kid but i went through years of being called gay and everything else. I just decided not to take it anymore and i fought back. I know ... boo-hoo violence never solved anything. Tell that to the 15 year old that tried to kick my ass when i was 13 just for being on the same sliding hill as him. He kicked my ass, I left and then came back. A lead pipe to the back of the head and i may have lost the battle but i won the war.

The other issue is that parents are not allowed to punish their children anymore. It's a crime! but you can't kick them out either ... then you have to pay them support. So you have these evil little bastards that know that no one can touch them. They do whatever they want to. We just had a run in with a local gang that is notorious for home invasions. i am older and wiser now so the first thing i did was register a complaint with the PD and had restraining orders put on the guys (about 16 to 20 yrs old). The cops warned us that they might retaliate to which i said - If they come into my house ... i gut them. I'm not going to ask their age or intentions. I will simply kill them. All the cops said to me was - don't chase them outside.

Because of our ongoing battle to try to be 100% PC we have lost control of most of todays youth. So if the parents, police and soicety in general can't deal with these bastards i figure we should revert back to the old testament - an eye for an eye.

One thing that i learned growing up ... once you learn to defend yourself and you start to win more fights then you lose ... the bullies disapear. It's no fun to torment someone who can hand you your ass.

Originally posted by sos37


The excuse "kids will be kids" is the lamest excuse and the cowards way out of a situation like this. Kids are this way (bullies) because parents let them get away with this kind of behavior.

----and----

If you really think it's okay for kids to be kids this way then you have no right to be surprised when you hear of school shootings and suicides on the news.

[edit on 16-4-2009 by sos37]

Slow down a second sos37!

I never once said it was an excuse nor did I say it was ok!

I said you can't blame the kids, Kids can be cruel! thats kids, they don't fully see the scope of there actions.
I dident mean, thats it! let them be!

and you even said it yourself
"because parents let them get away with this kind of behavior" so you agree with me you can't blame the kids.

and no I'm not surprised when I hear of school shootings and suicides on the news.

your glance reading my posts and assuming I'm condoning bulling.

which is not the case at all!

have a good day

Originally posted by Boxygirl
Nope i have been like a lurker for yeeeeaaarrrrsss now. Its like survuval of the fitest if he could not take being called gay what chance did he stand in life? Its kind of like eugenics but they kill themselves off

Survival of the fittest???
Well it didn't take long for that to pop up again now did it?
Is that how you really think? It's just survival of the fittest?
If you apply this to children, you must also apply this to adults.

So if someone wants something, anything, including you, and they're strong enough to take it, then according to you, it's ok. Survival of the fittest you know.

Are you sure you're really for "survival of the fittest" ?
Or are you now having second thoughts ???

reply to post by Shunsu


The way i look at it, is society deserve all these bullies that think they are great. The qeird thing is, is that these bullies get government jobs and say how bad society is, when they are the bullies that cause so much rubbish in peoples lifes.

We have a real problem in todays world, where it is only scum who get to the top, so that breeds itself, in this dog eat dog world.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Zenagain

 

Had that kid attempted to defend himself, what do you think would have happened? It would have been him against a crowd. He obviously felt he had no recourse...and I find that very sad, who knows what that kid could have become, had someone amongst his peers stepped forward and said, "Enough".

I hope those conscienceless bastards live long lives so that they can come to realize just what it is they did...and the peer group that didn't step up to help this kid.

[edit on 4/17/2009 by seagull]

You're exactly correct. Great post !
Bullies don't attack alone. They come in packs like wild animals which, due to a lack of parenting, they really are wild animals.

Originally posted by alphabetaone
Originally posted by seagull

Had that kid attempted to defend himself, what do you think would have happened? It would have been him against a crowd.

Yea brilliant, so instead hang yourself from a cord, great alternative.

wow ! ya just don't get it do you?
Your incredibly insensitive remark is very telling what type of person you are.
The child must have felt HOPELESS to do what he did. I assume since you are the bullying type, you've never felt that way. You're looking at this from the wrong side of the fence.

Originally posted by seagull
He obviously felt he had no recourse...and I find that very sad,

What are you talking about? No recourse?? There is SO MUCH recourse it's not even funny. And clearly it doesn't START with self-destruction. Gimme a break and enough already with the melodramatic effect.

Again, you're not getting it. You simply refuse to understand that not everyone can take a punch indefinitely or take insults indefinitely, etc.. Being mentally or physically beaten down day after day typically does one of 2 things
1. Destroy the person.
2. Or turns the person into a destroyer.

Secondarily, again, you're being melodramatic toward a situation that has been pervasive since before you were born AND is just an unfortunate way of life.

HELLO ?!?!?!? A child is DEAD !!!!! are you just not getting this???
Seriously what makes you think this is OK ?