When Words Can Kill: 'That's So Gay'

Originally posted by Leto

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Zenagain

 

Had that kid attempted to defend himself, what do you think would have happened? It would have been him against a crowd. He obviously felt he had no recourse...and I find that very sad, who knows what that kid could have become, had someone amongst his peers stepped forward and said, "Enough".

I hope those consciouncless bastards live long lives so that they can come to realize just what it is they did...and the peer group that didn't step up to help this kid.

Had the kid attempted to defend himself chances are the bullies would leave him alone.

or more then likely, he would have been beaten senseless.
Bullies pick their targets carefully. They're not going to KNOWINGLY pick on someone who can defend themselves and they usually travel in packs and MOST people can't defend themselves against 3, 4, or 5 people....CAN THEY ???

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by Leto
Had the kid attempted to defend himself chances are the bullies would leave him alone.

How can you say that, do people stop bullying people because the victim stands up, i doubt it seriously.

Thats a myth that standing upto bullies in groups stop bullying. One person against a group, and especially that he was 11.

To an extent, if you do stand up to a bully they will leave you alone but simply telling them you're not going to take it anymore isn't enough. A bully thinks he/she is the alpha and the only way to stop them is to become the alpha. In other words, you need to beat them up and humiliate them. Even then there is a chance they might decide to try and knife or shoot you.

Originally posted by Leto
Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by Leto

 

That's a crock of poo. Makes for a great movie though...

There would have been a bullie pile all over that kid. Only your delusions say otherwise. Gangs like that are like sharks, once blood is spilled they all pile in...

Yes sharks get in a frenzy when they smell blood which is why it is vital that you never show weakness. If you don't bleed, if you defend yourself, the sharks will find weaker prey.

Just curious but have you ever been in a fight against 3, 4, 5 or more people all against you?

Originally posted by alphabetaone
Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by alphabetaone

 

Did you even bother to read my post? Clearly you missed a word or two...

I said he felt he had no recourse. Not that there wasn't.

No, I clearly missed nothing at all. You can't even state as much, you can allude that PERHAPS he felt as though he had no recourse, but you can not state that with even the slightest bit of certainty.

Just curious but what do you think that suicide was about? Do you think he was so happy he just couldn't take it anymore?
What would be the motivation for this child to commit suicide unless he did indeed feel hopeless? Please use common sense when responding or please don't respond.

having only read the first page of replies ive gotta say im kinda angered by the whole grow a pair mentality i mean if that was your child you wouldnt say well he/she shoulda just grown a pair.

I do however believe that its the parents responsibility to teach their kids that the world is a tough place and that things like this will happen and you cant let it ruin your life.

no one should have to endure bullies and we have to teach our children the rise above it

Originally posted by jfj123

Just curious but what do you think that suicide was about? Do you think he was so happy he just couldn't take it anymore?
What would be the motivation for this child to commit suicide unless he did indeed feel hopeless? Please use common sense when responding or please don't respond.

It's seems MY common sense is on solid ground, considering I'm more than willing to weigh several possibilities for why this could have come about, as opposed to your narrow vision.

You seem to believe that YOU are the only one with the correct set of circumstances, YOU are the only one with the solution, and YOU are the only one who knows the possible outcome.

You know what *I* think? I think that you should re-read your OWN avatar..."Convictions are more dangerous foes of the truth than lies"....whys that? Because it seems someone like yourself who is SO convinced that THEY know everything about a topic, blind themselves to other possibilities, even at the expense of the truth.


AB1

Originally posted by alphabetaone
Originally posted by jfj123

Just curious but what do you think that suicide was about? Do you think he was so happy he just couldn't take it anymore?
What would be the motivation for this child to commit suicide unless he did indeed feel hopeless? Please use common sense when responding or please don't respond.

It's seems MY common sense is on solid ground, considering I'm more than willing to weigh several possibilities for why this could have come about, as opposed to your narrow vision.

Great ! what are they?????????

You seem to believe that YOU are the only one with the correct set of circumstances, YOU are the only one with the solution, and YOU are the only one who knows the possible outcome.

Actually I believe you're about the only one here who doesn't know what happened. Most of the people here understand the circumstances of hopelessness.

You know what *I* think?

Not for the life of me can I guess what you think. Thank god !

I think that you should re-read your OWN avatar..."Convictions are more dangerous foes of the truth than lies"....whys that?

Oh please. If I rolled my eyes any more, they'd be stuck in the back of my head.

Because it seems someone like yourself who is SO convinced that THEY know everything about a topic, blind themselves to other possibilities, even at the expense of the truth.
AB1

I never claimed to know everything about the topic. As a matter of fact, please post the statement I made where I indicated that. If you can't I must assume you're just very melodramatic

And once again, you mention the "other possibilities" in passing yet you don't explain what they are. Either back up your statements with actual content or don't bother making the claims.

[edit on 17-4-2009 by jfj123]

The problem is not that people can't take the bullying, it's that there IS bullying.

Many people in this thread have suggested to teach the children to grow a pair, rise above, etc., yet it's not they're fault how they feel, it's largely the bullies' fault.

The bully CHOOSES to hurt someone for their own gain, that is sick, and should be phased out. The victim has very little control over how they feel from the bullying, yet the bully has full control over what they do and say.

Should we try to phase out the "wimps" who can't control their feelings (something that is largely not a choice to begin with), or the bullies who CHOOSE to hurt people?

I have been bullied many times, but I have never wanted to kill myself. I would not remove myself from the hate, I would remove the hate. I have felt like killing these people, not just so they cannot bother me anymore, but so they cannot bother others (video games, movies, and music help me calm down).

Which is more immoral: an action, or a feeling?

reply to post by flyindevil


Good post
Yet one more person who "get's it".

It's not ok to tolerate bullies and it's NOT JUST A PART OF LIFE that children should get used to.

It's funny how when I mention to these people who think bullying is ok, what if they were bullied as adults??? and their responses included calling the police or using a gun. What would that be called....hmmmm.. let me think..... oh yeah HYPOCRITES !!!

reply to post by sos37


Putting a gun on a bully isn't "growing a pair" either, it's another cowards way out. Pulling a gun out on an unarmed person isn't being a real man at all, but now days it seems like it is. People are two afraid of getting beaten up so they hide behind a gun. So the person in your example would still need to "grow a pair".

How can you say that, do people stop bullying people because the victim stands up, i doubt it seriously.

Thats a myth that standing upto bullies in groups stop bullying. One person against a group, and especially that he was 11.

Um ... no it isn't a myth. I have stood up to bullies all my life for as long as i can remember. I was a walking stick and was called every name you can think of then add on top of that being the weird ass JW kid growing up. To most kids i was just a target.

It's really about your mindset. Even as a 9 or 10 year old i wasn't going to be some #ssholes punching bag. He might beat my ass but i wasn't going to make it easy for him. By age 12 or 13 i was beginning to hold my own and by 16 to 17 i ws tossing myself into fights to help others that were being beat on.

I defended black eyed girlfriends, skinny nerds, loners ... you name it. If someone decided to bully anyone in my school they knew i was gonna get involved. The school cought me fighting 3 or 4 times and i neve got in trouble once it was explained to the principal what was going on.

I went from being the skinny ass punching bag to the guy that scared the hell out of bullies. Sure i still got my ass handed to me when i ended up fighting 4 guys at once but the nerd that they were picking on or the girl they had cornered always got away.

I'm no tough guy and i don't have a hero complex but if oyu aren't willing to stand up and defend those being bullied that oyu have no right to judge anything. The kids that do nothing are almost as guilty for the little guy being picked on as the bullies. Indiference is a bigger insult than the insults the bullies use.

Kids tend to be like sheep and bullies are wolves. When teh wolves show up all the kids turn their back and just hope they aren't the one being cut from the flock. I am sure the smaller weaker sheep are happy to see the occasional ram come running in his/her defence.

And a school can not stop a child form defending himself. I have been down that road and every citizen has a right to defend themselves whenin danger. Children do not have less rights than adults. You just threaten to hold a press confrence on the front lawn of the school and have the press ask one question - Why did the student in trouble have to defende himself if the school staf was doing their job? I promise you ... threats of expulsion go away pretty damn fast.

People say violence is not the right answer. My response to that is - "I meant to get it wrong!" All thugs understand is thuggary. Hell even Einstien knew that for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you get pushed then push back!

reply to post by flyindevil


Yes there is bullying in the world, always has been, always will be, it's a fact of life. Both the bully and the bullied are two different types of people with insecurities, and probably with the same kind of insecurity going on. Some act out on it by preying on the weak, and the other keeping it all in. It is the bully's fault for starting trouble, but the one getting harrassed doesn't need to take it either, they need to show that person that they aren't going to take anything from him. It's a fact of life that if you let someone walk all over you, they gladly will. So yes people do need to "grow a pair" sometimes and it doesn't necessarily have to resort to violence.

reply to post by itinerantseeker

What does "growing a pair" necessitate?
You realize that bullies will continue to push you regardless of what you do? You could fight back or be strong, but the bully will always come back with more (insults, punches, people, etc.). Some bullies won't quit.
I tried growing a pair multiple times, did NOTHING for me. Maybe made me less angry, but that's it. It didn't stop the bullying, and I have been changed dramatically by it.

This might have been different from you, I'm not saying it wasn't, it's just that every situation is different. You can't compare when everything is subjective; when everyone has different feelings.

reply to post by jfj123


I don't have to name any possibilities at all for them to exist.

You know what, this back and forth nonsense is pointless because you see only one thing. That one thing is you think your e-peen is larger if you believe others have aquiesced to only your viewpoint, so .....


Ok you're right, you win, see ya around.



AB1

reply to post by flyindevil


I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work out to well for you. And yes the bullying did continue with some even when I did something about it, but I kept at it. As I wrote in a earlier post, that's how I learned to fight and learned when not to fight too. I was short younger and I still am, but no matter what, i don't let anyone think they can walk all over me. I also won't let anyone think that they aren't going to get a fight if they decide to make it physical. I'm barely 5'6, and even as i'm nearing 30, every now and then some big guy that thinks because he bigger than me, that he can push me around, or cut me in line thinking i won't do anything. Most of the time when you confront a bully, it stops, but sometimes they do continue, that i forgot to mention, so my apologies. But can't just give up, it's better to get beaten up trying rather than just letting them do it.

Originally posted by alphabetaone

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by alphabetaone

 

Did you even bother to read my post? Clearly you missed a word or two...

I said he felt he had no recourse. Not that there wasn't.

No, I clearly missed nothing at all. You can't even state as much, you can allude that PERHAPS he felt as though he had no recourse, but you can not state that with even the slightest bit of certainty.

AB1

So since you know that there are "tons" of other options available, perhaps you should make it a point to educate the youth in this nation of those options. But personally I think you don't know what the hell you're talking about. You're trying to justify a "survival of the fittest" mentality that belongs back in the Middle Ages.

Teen suicide due to bullying isn't a case of a few isolated incidents. I'll take what the experts have to say on this subject as fact:

A study published in Child Development magazine indicates that students who are bullied may be at a greater risk for developing antisocial behavior and depression.

And untreated depression is the number one cause for suicide. So, children who are bullied are at a risk for suicide.

and

Whereas, boys who were bullied were more likely to be depressed and exhibit antisocial behavior both at school and at home. And the boys who were depressed and/or antisocial in school actually attracted more bullying.

Most children that are bullied become depressed.

And untreated depression is the number one cause for suicide.

All children who are being bullied are at risk for dying by suicide.

Source: www.suicide.org...



[edit on 17-4-2009 by sos37]

A study published in Child Development magazine indicates that students who are bullied may be at a greater risk for developing antisocial behavior and depression.

And untreated depression is the number one cause for suicide. So, children who are bullied are at a risk for suicide.

I can vouch for the antisocial behaviour, 9 years of that crap made me grow to hate everything, government, society, religion, people (especially Humans).

Originally posted by NatalinaEx

For example, as I was perusing You Tube the other day, I noticed a vid from a 12 year old

Whoa, whoa, whoa... Why is a twelve year old posting videos on YouTube? I don't care how "cute" his parents think it is. Yes, it's too bad he was ridiculed, but if he's going to share his opinion and voluntarily put onto a forum that reaches millions of people, then his parents best make sure he can handle the consequences.

reply to post by jfj123


Yes, in fact I have. I was squarely where that kid, unfortunately, was. Young, insecure, etc... In other words, I had victim plastered square on my forehead in bright shiny letters. I, too, stood up to them; and got the boot taken to me...by all four of them. Not one of my fonder memories from childhood.

So when someone tells me "standing up to a group of bullies will make it stop", I remember only too clearly that just isn't the case. Fortunately, I had friends (2 of them) who stepped up and helped, not with the fight, but the aftermath. That summer I grew 6 inches, and amazingly enough, the bullying stopped against me, as the little punks decided to move on to easier game. Too bad for them, I was there when they did. I will not tolerate bullies, ever...I'm still amazed I didn't get kicked out of school for that particular escapade.

Does this mean I grew a pair? Oh, gosh...I'm so proud of myself.

Originally posted by alphabetaone
reply to post by jfj123

 

I don't have to name any possibilities at all for them to exist.

Of course not. Heaven for bid you back up anything you say.

You know what, this back and forth nonsense is pointless because you see only one thing.

I was thinking the exact same thing about you.

Ok you're right, you win, see ya around.
AB1

Fair enough.