Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by justamomma

 

LOL, Hitler could see the truth in Christianity...please...

If he did he wouldn't have killed 10 million people... Hitler never understood what it meant to be a good christian or a good man. That was a good one though, woke me up.

Lets be glad that Hitler is not the moral compass...

Ahhh.. but he used Paul's teachings as HIS moral compass! Let's not be glad that you believe the basis from which Hitler was able to draw more into his evil destructions.

reply to post by justamomma


Well..lol.. let be regain my barrings. So what you are trying to tell me is that Jesus is not the messiah? Are you kidding me.. The OT and the NT fit perfectly together, the old laws and the new laws. No lies, but truth. One truth and that is through God and his son, for if he had not died for us then none of us would be here.

reply to post by justamomma


Hitler never used Pauls teachings as his compass! He used Darwins evolution theory as his compass! Hitler was an atheist, hated nearly everyone and killed many in the name of purification not Paul or God. Come on now...

Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by justamomma

 

Well..lol..

let be regain my barrings. So what you are trying to tell me is that Jesus is not the messiah? Are you kidding me.. The OT and the NT fit perfectly together, the old laws and the new laws. No lies, but truth. One truth and that is through God and his son, for if he had not died for us then none of us would be here.

Messiah = annointed. The Son of man = the Word and does not = Jesus. The Word of the LORD is annointed and it was not exclusive to Jesus. If you think so, then you have not spent anytime studying what you claim your religion is founded on.

Jesus does not = G.d in the flesh. That is another manipulation of Paul.

Study the foundation that your leader claims is the basis for his teachings.. then we'll talk.

reply to post by justamomma


I am guessing your Jewish? Due to the G.d thing. Jesus was one in the flesh, one with man and one with God. The one and the only. I have studied what you claim to know all about. Our leader? you mean God, so you want me to study God and then get back to you..ok...

His teaching are based on the divine word. God used his divine word to expand through his son (Jesus) and Jesus did by creating the new laws.

[edit on -06002009-01-21T21:31:09-06:00312009bAmerica/ChicagoWed, 21 Jan 2009 21:31:09 -0600, 1 by TheMythLives]

Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by justamomma

 

I am guessing your Jewish? Due to the G.d thing. Jesus was one in the flesh, one with man and one with God. The one and the only. I have studied what you claim to know all about. Our leader? you mean God, so you want me to study God and then get back to you..ok...

I am.. though I am not known as such. I am not Jewish because of the "G.d thing".. I am Jewish because it is part of my bloodline.. and I know this because His promise to ignite the laws in the heart of those who were of Him. It has occured just as He said it would.

I do also claim to be Gentile because this is what I grew up in... the manipulations and the lies. I know it is not easy to face the truth and to rather grab hold of the false securities, because regardless if they are false, they still "feel" secure.

I know the reason for the Law is to show us the truth from the lies. I will keep saying it in hopes that someone will hear me. G.d does not break the laws (not the laws of nature..which He created as well or the ones that He gave to the Jewish people).. man breaks them. It is that simple.

You were taught to see the Laws as a burden... I am trying to show you they contain your salvation, just as G.d promised they would.



[edit on 21-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by justamomma


So, let us see how peaceful Paul really is, shall we?

2 Cor 10
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Let's see THE WHOLE passage;

2Cr 10:1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence [am] base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:


2Cr 10:2 But I beseech [you], that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.


2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:


2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

2Cr 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;


2Cr 10:6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.


2Cr 10:7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he [is] Christ's, even so [are] we Christ's.


2Cr 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:


2Cr 10:9

This is talking about rebuking sharply, when he comes back(Paul) in keeping with context.

2 Thess 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

That's referring to The Lord's vengeance! Not man's. Have you even read it?

2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,


2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Gal 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Accursed, in the Greek, anathema.


It doesn't mean, "Burn him at the stake!"

Acts 5:30
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye(Jews) slew and hanged on a tree.

How many prophets were sent to Israel that were killed or imprisoned?

Titus 1:10-16
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision(Jews):
Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.

Crete was only Jewish?
Interkriti

Roman Period - First Byzantine Period (67 BC-824 AD)
Crete was occupied at 67 BC by the Romans. Gortys, became the capital of the province of Crete. Crete, becomes part of the Byzantine empire from 325 AD to 824 AD and is converted to Christianity.

This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Telling them they're wrong is murder?

Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

The post-Babylonian Judaism had some really NON-Hebraic laws, such as washing of hands, not touching a gentile, etc,......... I agree with the 'fables' being such.

Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Jesus got so angry with the Temple priests that He made a whip and 'Let Loose' on them!
They were supposed to be the 'holy' men!

1 Thess 2:14-15
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:

I have heard testimonies of Jewish converts and they sound almost as hard as Muslim ones! One young woman was sent to the Rabbi by her mother-in-law, where she was imprisoned and starved (away from her son) until she would renounce her conversion!
She didn't.

Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us (HA! The Jews did not believe in the sacrifice of a human for sins.. that is Paul and his followers and lest we forget, Paul was a persecutor, no?); and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:

Does Abraham and Issach not register with you?

(and much more anger is directed at the Jewish and those who have the laws written on their hearts and sealed with the finger of the LORD)

Which Laws?

Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Does Sodom and Gommorah not register with you?

Rev 19:17
…Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God

The War of Armageddon will be VERY BAD for those who gather against God.

Any violent actions taken by believers against others that help the Lord Jesus implement his plans are easily justified by these gory verses.

WT????

Christianity is on the march!
When we accepted Jesus Christ as our Savior, we went to war with evil.
We demolish strongholds of unbelief and sin.
Nobody can refute the truth of the Gospel and all unbelievers will be in submission to the Lord Jesus.

All true. Under God.

Our mission will take time but our methods are working and skeptics are shown to be uninformed idiots.

Only some are idiots and some are uninformed and some are both.

Just keep hammering the message over and over again until people recognize the truth!
We are commanded by God to convert all unbelievers to the truth of Jesus.
Give Him Praise and Glory! - Battleplan of Christianity

As long as this doesn't mean PHYSICALLY FIGHTING, which I doubt was the intention, then Yes!

2Cr 10:1 Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence [am] base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:


2Cr 10:2 But I beseech [you], that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.


2Cr 10:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:


2Cr 10:4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

EVERY example of New Testament believers was to show us to turn the other cheek, but also to edify one another through teaching and prayer!
The outlandish portrayal of Our Faith is just showing me that you were never taught in the Holiness of the Lord.





[edit on 21-1-2009 by Clearskies]

[edit on 21-1-2009 by Clearskies]

reply to post by Clearskies


1. Who are you to rebuke someone seeking knowledge and not settling on blind faith though?

2. revenge





[edit on 21-1-2009 by justamomma]

Jesus doesn't change the laws. There isn't any "new laws". Jesus brought understanding and fulfilled the law. Jesus even says he didn't come to change the laws, but to fulfill them.

The pharisees were hypocrites. They knew the written word very well. Jesus would say - You tell it so well, but then he would give understanding on how to follow it.

Eye for an eye for example. They thought they were justified if they removed the eye of someone who did such. Killed the person who killed and so on. They believed they were doing "the lords work". But vengence is mine says the lord. What they failed to realize that because it isn't their place, they are in fact themselves breaking a commandment. If they kill the man who has killed, then both have killed and have sinned. You reap what you sow.

Jesus gives understanding on how to actually follow. Not to judge others because when they do, they become hypocrites and will not be seen as having doing the lords work, but to have sown death and destruction, for which they will reap. This is why Jesus says do as he says soo much. Hard pressed to find a chapter that doesn't include him talking about how important it is to actually follow. Because then you are not on the path of hypocrisy.

We were given the commandments. Men confused them. God loves those in the world, so he gives us Jesus to show us how to follow them. If you accept and believe Jesus, then he says you will do as he says. When you do as he says then you will be following the law.

It is only mans laws and traditions that Jesus doesn't follow. Paul creates more of mans laws and traditions. This is the "new law" you know.



[edit on 21-1-2009 by badmedia]

reply to post by justamomma


I am taught to see the laws as a burden? No burden, just the way its supposed to be. The truth does not hurt me because I hold the truth in my heart and in God. You stated that God does not break laws, of course he doesn't break laws, he modifies them, to make new and better. The laws that Jesus gave are the laws that were annointed to him by his father. His father loves man so much that he would modify his laws to protect us and give us a chance in his heaven.

The Bible plainly says that God's law changed: "For when the priesthood is changed, of necessity there takes place a change of law also." Hebrews 7:12

Since God gave the law of animal sacrifices then abolished it, this also proves that God changes! Right? Wrong: The laws God gives and what God requires of man has changes a lot. There are three basic periods of earth history: Heb 1:1-2
-Adam to Moses: No Leviticus priesthood, Sabbath, baptism or Lord's Supper
-Moses to Christ: No baptism, Lord's supper
-Christ to second coming: No Leviticus priesthood, Sabbath or animal sacrifices

Evidnence of the law changing.

God's nature does not change, and absolute truth does not change, but the rules and instructions God gives to man are adapted for our time and circumstances, and DO change. This is part of the reason why we need continuing revelation and living prophets.

Consider a few examples. Should modern Christians keep the feast of the Passover, the feast of unleavened bread, and offer animal sacrifices? Yet the Old Testament tells us that these rites should be kept FOREVER (Exodus 12:14-24). Should we keep the Feast of Firstfruits, which was to be a "statute for ever throughout your generations" (Lev. 23:9-14), or the wave offerings of sacrificed animals, another "statute forever" (Lev. 23:15-21), or the Feast of Tabernacles (Lev. 23:33-44, esp. v. 41) or offerings of flour and frankincense (Lev. 24:5-9), also said to be everlasting and perpetual? Do modern Protestants and Catholics strictly observe the Sabbath day as taught in the Old Testament (absolutely no work or shopping and observing the Sabbath on Saturday)? Yet the Old Testament practices were said to be given as "a perpetual covenant" and a sign between God and Israel forever (Exodus 31:16-17). Many of these Old Testament ordinances and observances were changed in the original Church of Jesus Christ - not by men, but by revelation from God.

More examples.

Further examples include circumcision, which was said to be "an everlasting covenant" in Genesis 17:13, yet this commandment was later changed, making circumcision of no importance at all (1 Corinthians 7:19, Galatians 5:6). The change was made through revelation to living apostles and prophets. A dramatic example of revealed change occurred in the revelation to Peter that showed him the Gospel was now to be preached to the Gentiles as well as the Jews. That revelation in Acts 10:9-18 occurred with the help of a vision in which Peter was commanded to eat "unclean" things. This revelation directly contradicted two previous Biblical revelations. One was the instruction from Christ that the Apostles were sent to preach to the house of Israel, not to the Gentiles (Matthew 10:5; see also Matthew 15:24); the other was the prior strict prohibitions against eating the very things that Peter was commanded to eat (Leviticus 11:2-47). Those changes may have been hard for Peter to accept, but they were from God and he obeyed. (Speaking of food, are Christians today allowed to eat fat? Yet a prohibition against eating fat in Leviticus 3:17 is said to be a perpetual statute.)

Originally posted by Clearskies
I have heard testimonies of Jewish converts and they sound almost as hard as Muslim ones!

Again.. go back a page and you will see that I declare as much and that I do not buy something just because it comes from a jewish person. I also stated that I am trying to bring knowledge to them as well.. as are many of my fellow Jews.

True knowledge is what I am for.. it is what I am about.

I do not ask you to believe me simply because I say something.. I am asking people to search. The Laws were given so that we could decipher the truth from the lies. Anyone who says they are replaced has not the truth (the light) in them.

Isaiah 8:20

[edit on 21-1-2009 by justamomma]

reply to post by TheMythLives


Do you believe that Jesus was a sacrifice for your sins? Show me one place in the Laws of G.d where a man was on the list of acceptable sin offerings.

Paganism is the only belief system that subscribes to such a barbaric act.

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by Clearskies

 

1. Who are you to rebuke someone seeking knowledge and not settling on blind faith though?

2. revenge

I am no Pastor, Paul was.
Revenge in the Greek;

ἐκδικέω
Transliteration
ekdikeō
Pronunciation
ek-dē-ke'-ō (Key)
Part of Speech
verb
Root Word (Etymology)
from G1558
TDNT Reference
2:442,215
Vines
View Entry
Outline of Biblical Usage
1) to vindicate one's right, do one justice
a) to protect, defend, one person from another
2) to avenge a thing
a) to punish a person for a thing

Paul was coming back to his church soon, to see what was going on.

reply to post by justamomma


G-d TOLD Abraham to bring his son Issach for a sacrifice, remember?

reply to post by badmedia


[The pharisees were hypocrites. They knew the written word very well. Jesus would say - You tell it so well, but then he would give understanding on how to follow it.]


Yes and who were they ? they were not Christians ..........which was who Jesus was talking to ....not Christians .......
The word Pharisees (lat. pharisæ|us, -i) comes from the Hebrew פרושים perushim from פרוש parush, meaning "separated" [1]. The Pharisees were, depending on the time, a political party, a social movement, and a school of thought among Jews that flourished during the Second Temple Era (536 BCE–70 CE). After the destruction of the Second Temple, the Pharisaic sect was re-established as Rabbinic Judaism — which ultimately produced normative, traditional Judaism, the basis for all contemporary forms of Judaism and even the Karaites use the Rabbinic canon of the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh.
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by TheMythLives
he modifies them, to make new and better.

Errrmmm. No! you mistake the laws with the covenant.

Here is what G.d said about His laws. Again.. get to know what you claim the basis of your belief is founded on. The Tanakh does not flow in harmony with the teachings of Paul.

Psa 19:7
The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

How do you make something that is perfect better? I could give countless verses from the Tanakh to prove that such a statement as yours is silly and false.

Originally posted by Clearskies
I am no Pastor, Paul was.

Interesting declaration you have made.

Jeremiah 23:
1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the LORD.

reply to post by justamomma


Yeshua(Jesus) DID NOT change the Law or modify it, He FULFILLED IT!
BTW, everyone, I didn't put those 'smilies' in my post!

reply to post by justamomma


A sacrifice for sins? NO a sacrifice for man's salvation, more like to show what sin has brought, Jesus was a symbol for man and God made flesh. Jesus showed us that the punishment for sin is death.

Although God banished Adam and Eve from the garden, He didn’t leave them without hope of heaven. He promised He would send a sinless Sacrifice to take the punishment they deserved (Genesis 3:15). Until then, men would sacrifice innocent lambs, showing their repentance from sin and faith in the future Sacrifice from God who would bear their penalty. God reaffirmed His promise of the Sacrifice with men such as Abraham and Moses. Herein lies the beauty of God’s perfect plan: God Himself provided the only sacrifice (Jesus) who could atone for the sins of His people. God’s perfect Son fulfilled God’s perfect requirement of God’s perfect law. It is perfectly brilliant in its simplicity. “God made Him (Christ), who knew no sin, to be sin for us that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Corinthians 5:21).

God created his own son from himself and in himself jesus was the way and the flesh.

Remember, the holy God cannot let sin go unpunished. To bear our own sins would be to suffer God’s judgment in the flames of hell. Praise God, He kept His promise to send and sacrifice the perfect Lamb to bear the sins of those who trust in Him. Jesus had to die because He is the only one who can pay the penalty for our sins.

More examples of Jesus and flesh.

When we ask a question such as this, we must be careful that we are not calling God into question. To wonder why God couldn’t find “another way” to do something is to imply that the way He has chosen is not the best course of action and that some other method would be better. Usually what we perceive as a “better” method is one that seems right to us. Before we can come to grips with anything God does, we have to first acknowledge that His ways are not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts—they are higher than ours (Isaiah 55:8). In addition, Deuteronomy 32:4 reminds us that “He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.” Therefore, the plan of salvation He has designed is perfect, just, and upright, and no one could have come up with anything better.

The Scripture says, “For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3-4). Evidence affirms that the sinless Jesus bled and died on a cross. Most importantly, the Bible explains why Jesus’ death and resurrection provide the only entrance to heaven.

Jesys was the way and the truth.

reply to post by justamomma


Yes, FALSE PASTORS who eat up the flock and scatter the sheep are to be condemned!
The TRUE shepherds or pastors are not.