Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

reply to post by TheMythLives


I am not sure how you are arguing with me lol. He was able to use Christianity to pull in those around him to support his agendas against the Jewish people! What are you missing here??

Originally posted by justamomma
Okay.. obviously I have to be VERY CLEAR here as though I have not already been so. I am not saying that Hitler is christian, but was he not able to use christianity for his agenda against the Jewish people? It is no different with Paul!

Christian is merely a label one uses to seperate themselves.. hatred is hatred despite the label that is applied to it.

Oh yes of course, I wasn't actually disagreeing with either of you. I was just trying to clarify it.

The wolves don't care what symbolism or labels you want to put on things, they will just use those things as a way of leading and manipulating the public.

And then there is of course the reason the people bought it. That is why I gave the link to the wolves in sheeps clothing thread.

I think it is important for people to understand it, because that is still done to this day and has been done for thousands of years. It's the same thing people do with the flag and so on. It's a huge way of mass manipulation. As they say, when facism comes to this country, it will be in the form of a bible, wrapped in a flag with a cross on top. Truth hidden by symbolism.

So it's done in everything, not just religion.

reply to post by justamomma


When Paul spoke about the judgement of unbelievers, he was saying that the Lord will judge. Not us handing out imprisonment terms or executions!
When he said "whose mouths must be stopped", he wasn't saying that they should kill them or put tape over their mouths!
I didn't understand the Bible, when I became a Christian, but even I knew what these things meant.

edit to add;
No one has seen the Father on this side of existence and lived!
Moses only got to see His Back!

[edit on 21-1-2009 by Clearskies]

reply to post by badmedia


Yes, that thread was very informative. I would like to clarify to others, I do not believe Jews simply because they are Jewish.. and in fact, Paul claims to be Jewish (sometimes.. when it benefitted him. When it did not, he claimed otherwise lol).

I just know that Paul's teachings draws hatred to the Jewish people in general who are, for the most part (seperated from the Zionist Jews) a very peaceable people. Just as our sons and daughters fall for the manipulations of our government, so do the Jewish people. I am working hard on that end as well.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by justamomma

 

When Paul spoke about the judgement of unbelievers, he was saying that the Lord will judge.

Go back a page.. I proved otherwise.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


Again, I have seen more evidence to show that Hitler used Psychology and Sociology to persuade the masses not, christianity. He only announced Christianity when he was trying to seem all God-fearing. He never used the teachings of Paul to persuade the masses. He used Psychological Warfare. Paul was just a very aggresive writer, perhaps what is seen has evil is supposed to be seen as something else. The bible is used to show literal meaning and symbolic meaning.

reply to post by TheMythLives


Did he use Christianity or not? I am not denying that he did not use other manipulations, but christianity WAS one of them. Why are you arguing that?

reply to post by justamomma


That litany of context-less scripture?


Without understanding and context, ANYONE could give evidence for ANYTHING!
Especially without proper translation!

reply to post by Clearskies


Very true mate. Very very true.
The wrong context of a word, could lead to so many issues.

I post it again... prove to me that he did not mean what he said. HELLO!

2 Cor 10
And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

2 Thess 1:8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Gal 1:9
As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Titus 1:10-16
For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision(Jews):
Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

1 Thess 2:14-15
For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they have of the Jews:
Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us ; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men:


HIS WHOLE message is against the Jewish people unless they believe what *he* says!

reply to post by justamomma


He only used Christianity as a Propaganda tool and mostly in the posters of WWII. He never outright said that Christianty says this and that and that Paul says I could this and that so I am going to do it.. He just images (pictures for propoganda) Hitler rarely commented on Christianity because he hated it so much....

Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by Clearskies

 

Very true mate. Very very true.
The wrong context of a word, could lead to so many issues.

Then show me the context that shows that he did not mean this literally! Show me where he says.. I did not mean this literally. I can show you in the Tanakh where it shows that it is allegorical.. show me where Paul is meaning this to be allegorical!

Originally posted by TheMythLives
He just images (pictures for propoganda)

Hello! Thus did Paul!

[edit on 21-1-2009 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


I still am trying to understand. If I say that I am going to beat up my neighbor because he is taller than me, can you prove that I actually mean that? Its just context, he was angry and like I said a very aggresive writer.

Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by justamomma

 

Again, I have seen more evidence to show that Hitler used Psychology and Sociology to persuade the masses not, christianity. He only announced Christianity when he was trying to seem all God-fearing. He never used the teachings of Paul to persuade the masses. He used Psychological Warfare. Paul was just a very aggresive writer, perhaps what is seen has evil is supposed to be seen as something else. The bible is used to show literal meaning and symbolic meaning.

They did go around quoting Romans. That is a known fact. That is part of the psychological warfare.

Notice anything strange about these roman soldiers?

www.le.ac.uk...



Roman soldiers at Dura c. AD 230, based on a wall painting and archaeological finds. © S. James 2004

Also, the RCC = italy pretty much. And which side is Italy on?

Book of Romans, roman soliders, and so on......

Not to mention, if you actually understand Jesus, then why does someone need Paul? If you actually understood, actually had the holy spirit, then doesn't that kind of rule out the entire need for Paul? Isn't Paul actually the shepherd for those without understanding?

They even warn of people who will come in his name. And how the 2nd shepherd will be accepted more because they look for a political shepherd. And what does Paul do? Comes in his name, and then appeals to worldly authority and Power. It's the book of Romans. Takes the fact that Jesus doesn't fight authority back as to mean blind submission to authority, to the point where you are to instead actually support those authorities in whatever they do, because what they do is "ordained by god".

Please, it's clear as day.

Originally posted by TheMythLives
reply to post by justamomma

 

I still am trying to understand. If I say that I am going to beat up my neighbor because he is taller than me, can you prove that I actually mean that? Its just context, he was angry and like I said a very aggresive writer.

Well, considering that Paul WAS actually killing the Jewish people.. when the truly enlightened kept multiplying.. what better way than to twist the message and point it against them.

If Paul had never killed them, then MAYBE (BIG MAYBE) we could say he didn't mean it. But he DID kill them.. when it wasn't working to silence them, he decided to play the innocent act.. but I have shown that he STILL was highly against them!!! He put the duty into the hands of those he could manipulate.

Let's be logical here.. please!! Show me you can do such. Hitler could even see the truth about christianity. sheesh!

reply to post by badmedia


Yes.. here is where it was warned about the different prophets that would come!

Deuteronomy 18:17 – 22 And the LORD said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken. I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him. He put His words in their mouths.

reply to post by badmedia


Like I said Propoganda, he used Propoganda for christianity but rarely commented on it, because he hated it so much.

The OT is the old laws and the NT is the news laws.

The Old Testament lays the foundation for the teachings and events found in the New Testament. The Bible is a progressive revelation. If you skip the first half of any good book and try to finish it, you will have a hard time understanding the characters, the plot, and the ending. In the same way, the New Testament is only completely understood when it is seen as a fulfillment of the events, characters, laws, sacrificial system, covenants, and promises of the Old Testament.

Without the Old Testament, we would not understand the Jewish customs that are mentioned in passing in the New Testament. We would not understand the perversions that the Pharisees had made to God's law as they added their traditions to it. We would not understand why Jesus was so upset as He cleansed the temple courtyard. We would not understand that we can make use of the same wisdom that Christ used in His many replies to His adversaries (both human and demonic).

The OT is the beginning, the very fruit of the NT. The Old Laws being left behind an dthe new Laws coming about.

Also, because the revelation in Scripture is progressive, the New Testament brings into focus teachings that were only alluded to in the Old Testament. The book of Hebrews describes how Jesus is the true High Priest and His one sacrifice replaces all of the sacrifices that were mere portrayals of that sacrifice. The Old Testament gives the Law which has two parts: the commandments and the blessing/curse that comes from obedience or disobedience to those commands. The New Testament clarifies that God gave those commandments to show men their need of salvation and were never intended to be a means of salvation (Romans 3:19).

Again you see how the OT and NT meet into context and how Jesus brings the new ways and the new laws, leaving some of the old laws behind..

In summary, the Old Testament lays the foundation for, and was meant to prepare the Israelites for, the coming of the Messiah who would sacrifice Himself for their sins (and for the sins of the world as well). The New Testament shares the life of Jesus Christ and then looks back on what He did and how we are to respond to His gift of eternal life and live our lives in gratitude for all He has done for us (Romans 12). Both testaments reveal the same holy, merciful, and righteous God who must condemn sin but who desires to bring to Himself a fallen human race of sinners through the forgiveness only possible through Christ's atoning sacrifice as payment for sin. In both testaments God reveals Himself to us and how we are to come to Him through Jesus Christ. And in both testaments we find all we need for eternal life and godly living (2 Timothy 3:15-17).

reply to post by justamomma


LOL, Hitler could see the truth in Christianity...please... If he did he wouldn't have killed 10 million people... Hitler never understood what it meant to be a good christian or a good man. That was a good one though, woke me up.

Lets be glad that Hitler is not the moral compass...

reply to post by TheMythLives


BUT... G.d did not say that He was changing the Laws!! Go back a few pages and I have proven what you said here (a manipulation of Paul that you fell for .. that being the Laws of G.d are a thing of the past) to be false.

Otherwise, do more than others on here and just admit that you believe something seperate from the Tanakh (the Word of the G.d of Israel). You believe paganism.. pure and simple.

G.d does not break Laws.. man does.