Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by justamomma

 

When is the Sabbath?
Saturday?

Lol..yes.. and notice it only requires that you do not pollute it.. it is not requiring that you observe it as is required of the Jewish people. He is not a brutal G.d.. He is anything but!

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by Clearskies

 

I'm not saying that you don't know G-d, but there are scriptures about those who would break into heaven without proper means, only to be cast out again.

Yes.. I understand what you are saying and that is why I say ademently.. do not take my word for it.. Just search is all I want for you all. If you search in all honesty what I am saying, you will see that I am speaking the truth. But do not buy into anything out of guilt and shame. That is not what G.d wants.. He is a G.d of knowledge and He is infinitely wise and He lovingly wants us to partake in that knowledge.

Don't believe what I say just because I say it and can point out things in the Tanakh.. Search it out for yourself. Test me all you want. I am willingly putting myself in this position for just that.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by justamomma]

And what is the NAME of the Lord Justamomma ?
God is not a name ..as you pointed out there are many who are called gods ...(as you say including you and you have a name ) ..........
Neither is I AM >.(which is what God says that he is ) ..

So what name is the Lord talking about in those scriptures you just posted ?

And dont say word ...nowhere does it say Gods name is the word .
John says that word was JESUS .....

reply to post by justamomma


If G-d wanted man to know that He would NEVER condone what He asked for again, He would most likely have done it as He did after the flood with a significant rainbow or some measure.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by justamomma

 

I don't think so.
The Ram caught in the bushes was a symbol for Jesus. G-d sent a sacrifice that He provided.

No, that is the mark of paganism. G.d did not ever condone human sacrifice.. the ram being sent was His proof of that. Christianity requires human sacrifice.. how is G.d sending a ram in place of the human sacrifice a show that He would require human sacrifice after all? You miss the beauty and replace it for the ugliness.

Let's be honest. Paul proposes a divine sacrifice. In a way, this is even stranger than human sacrifice. But it is so shocking that it does provide the necessary confusion needed to pull off the magic blood trick and make it seem believable. After all, wouldn't you think god-blood to be extremely valuable, when, for centuries you thought the blood of bulls was marginally valuable? And, if the objective is to somehow clear one's conscience of the feeling of guilt, the more powerful the magic the better...for those, like Paul, who felt extremely guilty. Unwilling to dispell his guilt by the true gospel of innocence, Paul made up his own gospel of guilt that he may remain separated from the One, just as simplynoone is interested in maintaining her separate status.

Christ!

I actually began keeping Saturday as Sabbath a long time AFTER
I began a relationship with Jesus.
I think it's like communion(not the catholic transubstantiation) in identifying oneself with G-d, but not required for salvation.

During the dark ages ANYONE caught keeping Saturday could be burned at the stake in many places.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by badmedia

 

[The pharisees were hypocrites. They knew the written word very well. Jesus would say - You tell it so well, but then he would give understanding on how to follow it.]


Yes and who were they ? they were not Christians ..........which was who Jesus was talking to ....not Christians .......
The word Pharisees (lat. pharisæ|us, -i) comes from the Hebrew פרושים perushim from פרוש parush, meaning "separated" [1]. The Pharisees were, depending on the time, a political party, a social movement, and a school of thought among Jews that flourished during the Second Temple Era (536 BCE–70 CE). After the destruction of the Second Temple, the Pharisaic sect was re-established as Rabbinic Judaism — which ultimately produced normative, traditional Judaism, the basis for all contemporary forms of Judaism and even the Karaites use the Rabbinic canon of the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh.
en.wikipedia.org...

And THIS is why you do not understand. This is why you do not have wisdom.

The Pharisees of today you can still see. They are the religious hypocrites. You are blind to the truth and so you can only focus on what people call themselves.

You are as a Pharisee is.

Pharisee

1. A member of an ancient Jewish sect that emphasized strict interpretation and observance of the Mosaic law in both its oral and written form.
2. A hypocritically self-righteous person.

You believe because they are not called the same thing, they don't exist. You are soo superficial in your beliefs that you are blind to this fact. You can see the Pharisees on TV ALL THE TIME.

A rose by any other name still smells the same. A Pharisee by another other name still preaches the same.

If you had actual wisdom and a relationship with God, then you would be able to see that everything Jesus dealt with is alive and well now. We still have synagogues, they are now called churches. We still have those synagogues filled with Pharisees, they are now called preachers. We still have people who will deliver you up to the written word just as they did with Jesus. And so on.

It's all here today. The exact same functions. Why do you think there needs to be a "return"? You are just blind and can't see it. You focus on the literal word just as a pharisee did. You do not understand Jesus anymore than they did. You do not hear the words of the father, only the words of a book.

reply to post by badmedia


So you're insulting Simplynoone as a hypocrite, pharisee while she isn't even on TV or making money at selling the gospel?
Is everyone but you and select others, pharisees or is it just Bible-believing Christians?

Originally posted by Christ!
Let's be honest. Paul proposes a divine sacrifice. In a way, this is even stranger than human sacrifice. But it is so shocking that it does provide the necessary confusion needed to pull off the magic blood trick and make it seem believable. After all, wouldn't you think god-blood to be extremely valuable, when, for centuries you thought the blood of bulls was marginally valuable? And, if the objective is to somehow clear one's conscience of the feeling of guilt, the more powerful the magic the better...for those, like Paul, who felt extremely guilty. Unwilling to dispell his guilt by the true gospel of innocence, Paul made up his own gospel of guilt that he may remain separated from the One, just as simplynoone is interested in maintaining her separate status.

Christ!

Yes, it is dumb. It says god is limited and actually needs to do such things to forgive.

One of the most truthful things I've heard you say was that when Jesus is viewed as a sacrifice, it is the sacrifice of truth so that the live can live. It is those who view him as a sacrifice who look for life and a future in the lie.

But when you understand and follow Jesus, then you are living in the truth, and looking for truth in the "life". And of course, that comes with things that are not given as this world(lie) gives, true knowledge and wisdom. Which is what the rich man has in the eyes of god, not the man with the most material wealth. It is in the life and example of Jesus that I see truth, that I see the father. Not in his death.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by badmedia]

The assumptions are idiotic because they cannot be proven, nor can they be disproved by the apologists and defenders of the Faith. It's a feedback loop of faulty reasoning and it makes no room for common ground. All attempts at intelligent discourse have ended with each side dug in deeper. Many have put mountains of evidence before them, and it has done nothing to change them. It's a mind control game and a trap.

Run, Run while you can, don't get trapped!!

Cleareyes on page 65 I gave my opinion with scriptures as to why I believe there was a sacrifice ..and why Jesus had to die (shed blood ) to accomplish what he did ..if your interested ...maybe you could add something to it to help us all understand it better ..

I believe what happened with Abraham was just a foreshadow (showing Abraham) what he was going to do with Jesus in the future (Giving his only son )

Originally posted by Clearskies
During the dark ages ANYONE caught keeping Saturday could be burned at the stake in many places.

And see, that is wrong. That is why I say, I do not trust all Jewish people either just because they are Jewish.

One has to understand that the first 5 books were written by Scribes while in captivity in Babylon. It was allegorical.. the Law was there to show us the difference between the lies that were being written by those of the Hellenistic beliefs (of which Paul is one.. if he even existed.. it is hard to say). The death in the law was allegorical.

For instance, it told the Jewish people that they were to put to death anyone in their family that worshiped a strange god... I have done this myself... but not LITERALLY! It just meant that I could not subscribe to the teachings of Paul because I could not believe in a god that would allow for human sacrifice for sin. Thus, in essence, they died to me when they turned their backs on me for not believing the lie (temporarily.. and G.d healed these relationships because I trusted Him). And in fact, now my sister is starting to see the truth herself (without any preaching on my part )

[edit on 21-1-2009 by justamomma]

reply to post by badmedia


So, you think Jesus was a liar and He WAS NOT the Son of G-d sent to take away the sins of the world. Reconciling Jews and gentiles to God?
Ya'll are seriously confusing my sense of clarity.

Originally posted by John Matrix
The assumptions are idiotic because they cannot be proven, nor can they be disproved by the apologists and defenders of the Faith. It's a feedback loop of faulty reasoning and it makes no room for common ground. All attempts at intelligent discourse have ended with each side dug in deeper. Many have put mountains of evidence before them, and it has done nothing to change them. It's a mind control game and a trap.

Run, Run while you can, don't get trapped!!

And in rush those of blind faith to heap guilt and shame to anyone who questions. Yet G.d wants us to question! So.. I hope to all those who have been questioning and searching that you don't fall for the manipulation that is always so quick to show up once progress is made. G.d does not reward blind faith.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Only TWICE is faith mentioned in the Tanakh and once is speaking of faithfulness and the other is a warning against the faith that posters such as JM subscribe to.

reply to post by justamomma


Jews were a primary target for extermination by the pope during the dark ages, but so were those of the protestant sects who kept Saturday.
I got saved from being a dead woman, zombie in 1993 BY Believing in Jesus as The Ultimate Sacrifice for sins.
No one can ever change my mind on that.

A repost:

Faith is used 2 times from Gen - Malachi
Believe - 17

Knowledge - 120 times
Understanding - 136 times
Wisdom - 181
search - 128


Faith is used 245 times from Mat - Rev
believe - 124

knowledge - 42
understanding - 24
wisdom - 53
search - 3

Originally posted by Clearskies

So you're insulting Simplynoone as a hypocrite, pharisee while she isn't even on TV or making money at selling the gospel?
Is everyone but you and select others, pharisees or is it just Bible-believing Christians?

Sorry, the true path is narrow and few do find it. The broad path of death and destruction is the one many people follow. She is not a wolf, and I never accused her of such. But she is a mislead sheep, as are many.

It may not be nice, but it is the truth. She took away any doubts I had of this when she didn't know what John 14:20 and to be gods means. Doesn't understand the father/son relationship. Because that understanding is what starts it all as far as understanding, but even that requires a search for the truth. This is not the kingdom of Jesus, the truth is not hand feed to you like the bible is. The truth is something you must seek, but actually seek is all you need to do. Of course, you have to be willing to handle the truth even if you do not like it, and you have to be honest with yourself or you will deny it.

Read John 14. It talks of how these things will happen specifically. If you have not had that happen, then you have no seen the father or received the teachings of the holy spirit. John 14:20 says on that day. On that day. On a specific time you will KNOW the connection of the father. When you know that, then you understand why the commandments are what they are. They are not just things god wants because he wants to control you. There is a reason why they are called sins against god. Because when you see this connection, then you see that the father is in others. You do bad things to another person, and you are doing that to god.

And it's not all doom and gloom however. The only thing that can't be forgiven is to know and understand the truth and turn your back on it anyway. That means she would have to actually know everything I say, and then purposely deny it anyway. I do not see that she has done that at all. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. It's not a sin to be poor in spirit, it is not a sin to not have understanding. But as long as you do not have understanding and as long as you do not see the truth, then you are not following or understanding Jesus. When Jesus/truth is made known to those who are poor in spirit, when they see and understand John 14:20 for themselves, they will accept that truth and they will understand what I am talking about.

The life of Jesus is the example of how to live without sin. To live by gods laws. He says those who believe will follow, because that is the path to salvation/forgiveness. That is how he is your savior. Not be believing or following the traditions of Paul and the church.

These things have been replaced by physical things as part of deception. It is how corruption works.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by justamomma

 

Jews were a primary target for extermination by the pope during the dark ages, but so were those of the protestant sects who kept Saturday.
I got saved from being a dead woman, zombie in 1993 BY Believing in Jesus as The Ultimate Sacrifice for sins.
No one can ever change my mind on that.

Well, only G.d can change your mind if you are genuinely seeking the truth. I do not ever expect or take credit for changing a person's mind. Only G.d can do that... but if you are closed to the truth, since G.d respects free will, I do not doubt that you will never have your mind changed and directed toward the truth.

[edit on 21-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
John says that word was JESUS .....

Not really. This is implied. All he says is that whatever was with GoD and was God before time...somehow...became flesh. Not talking about a virgin birth. Talking about an *impossible* birth. Talking about an *immasculate conception*. The impossible birth is the birth of god-flesh. Such a birth immasculates GoD. Talking about the genesis of the world. It is an impossible *birth of belief*. Belief is *how* GoD become flesh. So, bodies are beliefs. They are not possible in reality, symbolized by a virgin birth...which is impossible. The birth of Jesus is the symbol of the birth of ALL flesh...which descends from above...which seems to come from heaven.

The immaculate conception is the Son of God, like from like, created of *Our FAther*.
Let's not confuse gender here.
The words Son and Father are nOt descriptive of gender.
They simply describe strength, cause and effect, and equality....like from like.
This is the Holy One.
The world is the unholy many.
The world is birthed of the unholy spirit.
The world is rebirthed by the Holy Spirit.
The birth of Jesus is the symbol of the birth of the Holy Spirit in the world.
The Holy Spirit is likened to the will to be one.
The will to be one is the will of the Holy One.
The will of the many is the will of the unholy one.
The unholy one is the will [spirit] of the many.
Hence, "blessed are the poor in spirit"...the spirit of the many.
The poor in the many spirit will be rich in the One Spirit.

There is only one word to describe the One.
Whatever that word is, it is one word for all of the One.
The Name of the One is Christ.
The names of the many include "Jesus".
The many are really the One, but the One is not really the many.
Likewise,
Jesus is really the One, but the One is not Jesus.

Christ!

[edit on 21-1-2009 by Christ!]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
reply to post by badmedia

 

Sounds like you did not even read my post ...you could at least read my posts .I read every single one of yours including entire chapters of what you posted ..why cant you do the same for me .?
You have to take all the pieces to form the puzzle ..which is why you need to read all both old and new testament ..the pieces all form a perfect puzzle that helps us to know exactly what is going on down here ..and why it is going on etc ..

In the garden Adam and Eve were told if they ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil they would be as gods ....isnt that true ?
Then he said now they would have to eat of the tree of life ..
That tree of life was Jesus Christ .. ....thats what Jesus meant when he said for them to eat of his flesh and drink of his blood (that was spiritual in meaning of eating of that fruit and drinking of that wine that he offers ) ..which leads to everlasting life.
Otherwise as those scriptures pointed out ..we shall die like men ..even though we are like gods(gods of this world) we will die like men ...

We are those gods of this world as the rulers of this world ..(all of us) ..since that garden .....so technically your correct ...
but we will all die like men unless we also eat of the fruit of eternal life through Jesus Christ ...By being born again (dieing to self to giving of self) now and someday soon changed bodily as well)




Not that you would be interested ...but as I was considering why Jesus had to die instead of him just comeing here and rising back up ..instead of dieng ...
And I came across Pauls writing (Yes again) .......the first covenant (Read about it in the OT ) was made with blood ..........
Hbr 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Hbr 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions [that were] under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Hbr 9:16 For where a testament [is], there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

Hbr 9:17 For a testament [is] of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
((((((((((((((((The only way to break the covenant was with the death of the testator ...Now see Zecheriah below these verses))))

Hbr 9:18 Whereupon neither the first [testament] was dedicated without blood.

Hbr 9:19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

Hbr 9:20 Saying, This [is] the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

Hbr 9:21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.


Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Hbr 9:23 [It was] therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

Hbr 9:25 Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;

Hbr 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Hbr 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Here it is in the OT ................

Zec 11:7 And I will feed the flock of slaughter, [even] you, O poor of the flock. And I took unto me two staves; the one I called Beauty, and the other I called Bands; and I fed the flock.

Zec 11:10 And I took my staff, [even] Beauty, and cut it asunder, that I might break my covenant which I had made with all the people.

Zec 11:11 And it was broken in that day: and so the poor of the flock that waited upon me knew that it [was] the word of the LORD.
((((((This is talking future since it had not happened as of when Zech heard it from the Lord ..read the whole chapter to see it is prophecy for the future ..as in when Christ would come ..which he did))))))))))))

Zec 11:12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give [me] my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty [pieces] of silver.
((((The Lord was sold for thirty pieces of silver))))

Zec 11:13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty [pieces] of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

Zec 11:14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, [even] Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel.

Zec 11:15 And the LORD said unto me, Take unto thee yet the instruments of a foolish shepherd.

Zec 11:16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, [which] shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
((((((((((((this shepherd here is the Antichrist ))))))))))))
Zec 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword [shall be] upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
(((((((((and he is a shepherd and as much as I can see from these scriptures he is an idol shepherd and left the flock which tells me he will be from the tribes of Israel ...not Paul because Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin .........I believe the Antichrist comes from the tribe of Judah (who was bands in the scripture in Zech.) Judas was the betrayer ........and not only that but the half brother of Jesus (Sound familar like in Zech where he broke the covenant between the two brothers ..also see in scripture about the bondwoman verses the freewoman ...........also Sarah and the Handmade (Gen 16:1)and the child of the handmaid ..then child of Jacob and his handmaid .(Gen 30 :4).(freewoman) ..(Justamomma this explains the family lineage question in the geneologies you mentioned from matthew) ........

We made a covenant with death (when we chose to become like gods by eating of that knowledge we just had to have ) ...when we ate of that fruit of that tree of knowledge of good and evil .....this covenant was broken when Christ went and took the keys to death and hell from satan ......when he rose again from the dead ...swallowing up death in victory .....
Rev 1:18 I [am] he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Isa 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
Isa 28:18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

I think you covered The New Covenant extremely well!