Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

reply to post by justamomma


Thank you for quoting those passages from Daniel.

To me, it shows that it was God's will for the Roman Church* i.e. the whore of Babylon as described in Revelation, to come about.

The ones that come out of that proclaim the One True God and are members of the spiritual Israel.

So, in thinking about those passages from Daniel that you quoted, the message of Jesus was to be taken to the gentiles. Otherwise, the whore of Babylon would not have been set up.

What is the anti-christ but he who denies Jesus came in the flesh.

This to me is saying the antichrist is anyone who says that Jesus is God, because it is written: God is not a man, nor a son of man. God is Spirit.

Paul did not teach that God was a man, but that Jesus is a savior. Israel has had many saviors, and Jesus became the gentile's savior too.

It was Rome who made it a law to consider Jesus as God (and all the subsequent popes too). Through Rome's decrees anyone who wouldn't say Jesus was God were murdered.

You are saying that Paul didn't use the hebrew scriptures correctly. I say so what. The scriptures are not God, but following in Jesus' footsteps can lead someone to God... which is what all of Israel's saviors were to do.

Paul did not invent a savior. Rome, however, did invent the idea of making the savior Jesus a God.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by L.I.B.]

Originally posted by badmedia
2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

Contrary to popular belief, I do actually understand Paul. But these are the same arguments as justification for Satan.

Yes you do my brother. All one has to do is read the latter half of Acts to see that Paul was a coward and manipulated the authority of the day.

Acts 26: 28 "Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian."

You know why he WASN'T persuaded? Because he was married to a Jewish woman and she knew better than to believe such a load of bs and he loved his wife and wisely listened to her.

Paul teaches you must abandon your mind to save your soul. You must confess Jesus (one man) is your Lord and worship him as such.

Salvation is exchanged for worship and it's nothing more than a holy barter system where you say the magic words and you are saved. On the surface it's cheap, easy, and painless. It appeals to anyone who doesn't want to be burdened with thinking for themselves, but it's in no sense "free".


By the way, how many people are aware that Paul shows signs all throughout his teachings of being into a jewish mystic circle known as Kabbalah? He gets you to say you believe this name/ this image/ this man and it distracts you from the Word.

This is EXACTLY what badmedia is talking about when he warns you about the true nature of sorcery.

2 Thes 1: 8
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Look at the following battle plan of Christianity:
Christianity is on the march!
When we accepted Jesus Christ as our Savior, we went to war with evil.
We demolish strongholds of unbelief and sin.
Nobody can refute the truth of the Gospel and all unbelievers will be in submission to the Lord Jesus.
Our mission will take time but our methods are working and skeptics are shown to be uninformed idiots.
Just keep hammering the message over and over again until people recognize the truth!
We are commanded by God to convert all unbelievers to the truth of Jesus.
Give Him Praise and Glory!

"keep hammering the message over and over again..."

"The New Testament shows that the law of God cannot save people from their sins.
Only the precious blood of Jesus can do that.
Paul proved this in Gal 2:21.
I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain."

"God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees.
God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours.'"
---Ann Coulter, June 2001


According to the Word, Paul is teaching bogus lies and look at the mentality of his followers as shown above... eeks!!!

Isa 8:20
To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Psa 119:155
Salvation is far from the wicked: for they seek not thy statutes.









[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by Simplynoone


You show you still see things too physically. If one understands, then one can see that Paul was busy establishing a kingdom.

And really, even physically... you can easily read the fear if you are reading through with the correct eyes.

He wasn't in it for YOU... he was in this for him. The proof can be found when he says, if the dead won't resurrect, let's eat and drink for tomorrow we die. (I Cor. 15:32)

So, while he feared the actual death process, he knew the power of the Word.

But he shows his intent was not pure because trust me, one who KNOWS G.d and who IS a true messenger of G.d will never say, if... Then.



[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]

You did not read that scripture in context. That was not fear, that was sarcasm.

reply to post by justamomma


Ever heard of "go ye into all the world and preach the gospel." I think Jesus said that. In fact if you continue reading you will find out that those who believe not will be damned. Also that He gave believers power, in His name, to be a conduit for miracles.
As far as the flaming fire reference, that was not speaking of pauls flaming fire, but of Gods judgement at the end of days. Wasn't there a prophet in the OT that caused fire to come down from heaven? Was he a kabalist? Also, Sodom and Gomorah, is God a kabalist?

Not meant to be mean, I just saw some error I needed to correct.

reply to post by One4truth


Uhm.. not really. He may have been sarcastic, but he made the declaration. His work was for vain purposes. He was working for a reward and not for the Truth.

I am telling you now... I do not know or expect a reward. If we cease to exist tomorrow, you STILL should seek G.d. He is 100% existing and His ways are right and sure. They give Life, not death.

Paul's "faith" was conditional. He exposes himself and yet you don't see it.


Know why? because you don't seek... you just buy. The truth escapes you because you place your faith in the words of the book rather than the Word of the Living G.d.

reply to post by One4truth


Matthew 10:
5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

He also said the above according to the Bible.

Care to explain?

reply to post by mastermind77


Of course you don't understand it.. but no matter because Jesus was talking to the Jewish people when he said "You are the light of the world."

You don't understand the purpose for the "light."

The light is for the the Lost Sheep. The lost sheep don't know they are lost until they see the light.

The light has since been used as a stumbling block. Hence the reason why Jesus made the above declaration.

reply to post by justamomma


I don't seek?!!! I buy?!!! Please excuse me while I stop laughing and can wipe the tears from my eyes!

O.k. That's better.

Anyway, every time I seek God, He answers and it always lines up with scripture( all of it). So I guess I am buying from God then.
My faith is in the word of God. John 1:1-14. Jesus was and is the logos (spoken word) of God. That's the word of God I follow.

I don't go to people and buy what they are selling(knowledge from God) unless it is confirmed by God. That's probably why I am not buying into what you and badmedia are teaching. I have been seeking God about this threads topic since I first came across it. Just because I don't agree with you or badmedia, doesn't mean that I am not seeking or void of understanding.

The only reward that I have gotten from God is a relationship with Him and His fulfilled promises to me that I've sought Him about.

reply to post by L.I.B.


Not so much LIB...

Heb 10:10,12,18
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Did you know that the time of sacrifices has not ended once and for all??
Paul helped to destroy the temple with his lies.

"How so?" she asks

Daniel 12: 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Paul made people believe that Jesus was a sacrifice for the sins of the world and yet G.d made it clear when he sent a ram in the place of Isaac that he would NEVER use a human sacrifice for the atonement of sins.

people say the story of Isaac and the ram was a test of obedience... in a sense... but more so, it was a warning of deception to come.


Edited to Add: thus why knowledge of G.d's Laws is of the utmost importance. Know His ways and deception falls away.

Never was a "Jesus" on the list of appropriate atonement sacrifices.

And never was a sacrifice on the list of atonement for the nation. That was the scape goat... aka Israel. The sins of Judah were put on Israel and the "children of Israel" were sent into the wilderness... alive, not dead. Of course, if you don't understand the things that are spiritual, how could you understand how this was accomplished.

I am trying to tell you, the scape goat is alive still. They have been thrown out into the dust of the earth. But how would you know unless you seek? And why would you seek when believe the words of the ONLY one who has ever declared "the just shall live by faith alone"?

(other than of course the warning against the man who declares such a thing in Habakkuk 2)










[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


Sure I will explain, are you willing to listen?>

Jesus spoke that to His disciples before He died. He gave "the great commision" after he had risen. He even said elsewhere in scripture that He had another fold of sheep to bring in, to join the rest of the sheep. Maybe that's what He meant by preaching the gospel to every creature, not just the jews.

Anymore questions?if so keep them coming

Originally posted by One4truth
reply to post by justamomma

 

I don't seek?!!! I buy?!!! Please excuse me while I stop laughing and can wipe the tears from my eyes!

O.k. That's better.

Anyway, every time I seek God, He answers and it always lines up with scripture( all of it). So I guess I am buying from God then.
My faith is in the word of God. John 1:1-14. Jesus was and is the logos (spoken word) of God. That's the word of God I follow.

I don't go to people and buy what they are selling(knowledge from God) unless it is confirmed by God. That's probably why I am not buying into what you and badmedia are teaching. I have been seeking God about this threads topic since I first came across it. Just because I don't agree with you or badmedia, doesn't mean that I am not seeking or void of understanding.

The only reward that I have gotten from God is a relationship with Him and His fulfilled promises to me that I've sought Him about.

Since you say what you believe lines up with all of Scripture.. then do better than JM has done and show me one sacrifice for sin according to the Hebrew Scriptures that is comparable with the sacrifice that Paul claims Jesus to be.

If it all lines up according to you, then this should be a relatively easy task, no?

Originally posted by One4truth
James 1:5 "if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God, that gives to all men liberally, AND UPBRAIDETH NOT, and it shall be given him". When you had your vision from God, did He yell at you and call you ignorant? Did He speak in a condesending attitude towards you?

No, he did not speak in a condescending attitude, but then I wasn't giving him the attitude and accusations I have faced over and over in this thread. If I were to give him the same attitude and accusations, then I probably wouldn't have been ready for, or accepting of the understandings and it wouldn't have happened.

Also, it is the holy spirit which teaches me, not the form of God. God only asked me a single question - do you want it to end. As well, nobody ever said - this is what is what, this is how you are to be, this is what you shall say. Never. It did not at all work that way. Instead, I was given understandings. And upon a new understanding came new questions, and this is to seek truth, and upon new questions came new answers/understandings. It is from these understandings that I see.

Never once were any names mentioned to me. None at all. The name Jesus, in any form was not mentioned to me. I was shown - through understanding, that the names and symbols are not the important parts, it is what they express that is to be held dear. That the names, idols and symbols can be anything you want to see them as, a rose by any other name would still smell the same. The truth by any other messenger or idol is still the truth. To focus on the idol and messenger is to focus on the physical, to focus on the message and understandings is to see the spirit of the idol, or the spirit of the physical. And again, this is how I recognized that Jesus was speaking truth. Not because an authority told me too, but because in the spirit of his words I recognized it. I recognize the father which shines through him.

Whenever I have sought God for wisdom, He speaks to me as a loving father to a beloved son. James chapter 3 sums up my thoughts.
I would love to learn what you have learned from God, but you cut that off with your venomus posts and replies.

You truly can NOT learn from me. It may appear that you learn from me, but you can not learn from me. There is only 1 true teacher, and that teacher is within you. The only thing I can do is point out errors and lower levels of thinking, so that you may ask the proper questions. Where as the physical and absolute given by accepting authority has been a replacement for understanding. And when you ask the proper questions, then you will be seeking. And yet, the questions themselves I can not truly give you either, because the questions have to be formed on previous understandings. If I give you a question without the proper understanding behind it, then while the words repeated may be the same, the question itself is not.

When you build understanding, then you are building your church - the true church, not the physical replacement you see on earth. That which is in both heaven and earth, and rich in the eyes of god(built on wisdom). The kingdom of heaven is within, not external like the church you see in the physical. And so you need that foundation that is like a rock. Without that foundation, then what you build upon will fall. And this is what I mean by I can not give you the questions themselves, even if I did they would not be the same questions. This is what I mean by you need previous understandings, those previous understandings are the rock, which is required to build on. I hope this makes sense. My rock is John 14:20, but not because I read it, but because I experienced it.

Think of consciousness like a circle. At a young age, it is very small. The amount of unknown which surrounds it is also small. As it grows, the amount of unknown also grows. The true measure of wisdom is not what you know, what is in that circle of consciousness, but rather in the questions you ask. Because the questions you ask are based on that which you know, and the insight to see the question it brings behind it. Thus why the wise man says he knows nothing. I try to break down the walls that have been created by authority which keeps people from looking to the next question, IE: do not question authority, if it's not in the book it is wrong, memorize the book!

I don't shrink down to others, because I am on the same level as them, except God has given me some knowledge to share. That is not an excuse for a holier than thou attitude. Just as Jesus taught children out of love, I will do the same.

You do, but do not realize it. We all do it without realizing it. It is the glue which keeps the lie of this world together. That little layer of BS that keeps people going. It's when you know something is wrong or perverted, and you keep your mouth shut to be nice to avoid confrontation. This is when you shrink down and play small. This is not to say we should all speak in dogma, like crazy people do. And sometimes it is best to do this, or to wipe your feet of them, no point in arguing with them, you will get no where. No point in casting your pearls before swine.

Love however is a loose word with many relative meanings. Lets say you have a friend who has been drinking and wants to drive home. Is it to love him to be nice and not argue with him? Or is it love to take away his keys? He may accuse you of being condescending to him as well, but are you? He may curse you tonight, but tomorrow he will thank you.

Jesus lowered Himself to us to teach us and bring us to the Father, so did Jesus slap the face of His Fathre? Jesus was the son of God,right? He didn't think it robbery to be equal with God.

You are a son of god as well. And this is the big problem I have with the church, the idol worship and so on. They push you down. They create separation. They tell you that Jesus is this, and that you are not. But listen to Jesus, he tells you that you are! He says everything he is and does - you are also and can also do. When you truly see and realize this, then you will see how and why you have lowered yourself to that which you aren't - Just as I did for 30 years. So when you act and describe yourself as less than this, then I see you as putting yourself down. But do not put yourself down, realize your own authority, realize and let the god within shine. And when you let it shine, then you will not see me as being condescending. Do not listen to those who claim you are anything less, for truly you aren't, and truly you will have all that I have and more.

When it happens, the way it's kept hidden is truly brilliant.

Anyway, I have had enough of responding to your hatred to us "lower" ignorant (in your eyes) folk. In your next post could you do me and everyone else who you are trying to "enlighten" a favor, and edit out any venom you spilled when you opened your mouth. If its not too below you, of course.

If I hated you, then I wouldn't speak to you. What I "hate", is seeing people sell themselves short. What I "hate" is seeing people not live up to their potential. What I "hate" is seeing people accept authority that isn't their own. And it is painful for me, because I know I too did the same. I know I was once ignorant. An error doesn't become a mistake, until we refuse to correct it. If there is a hell for me, it is now as I watch people make my mistakes, that took me so long to correct.

Originally posted by One4truth
reply to post by justamomma

 

Sure I will explain, are you willing to listen?

>

Jesus spoke that to His disciples before He died. He gave "the great commision" after he had risen. He even said elsewhere in scripture that He had another fold of sheep to bring in, to join the rest of the sheep. Maybe that's what He meant by preaching the gospel to every creature, not just the jews.

Anymore questions?if so keep them coming

So then do you care to explain why I should take the great commission in Matthew as authority when clearly there are errrors in the book??

Explain to me, if all of the NT flows with the OT, why are there four missing names??

I Chr. 3:10-16 vs Matthew 1:6-11
Also, the lineage in matt does not line up Luke.

So, do I believe the great commission is by Jesus.. yes... but I believe that it is missing an important detail that was deliberately taken out so as to support paul's reasonings.

You cannot say that it isn't possible when clearly, there are four missing names in the lineage given in Matthew.

reply to post by L.I.B.


Btw, I think I should mention this.

I surely do not fight authority because it is authority, or because it is ordained by god. I do not fight authority physically because for me to do so, I would have to become evil myself. At which point, I do not rid the world of evil, I will merely replace it with my own evil. And so the way I fight authority is with truth. Because I recognize and see where authority gets it's power, just like I mentioned before with how symbols are able to give people power. And when people see this truth, then the authority is no longer the authority.

Manipulation and confusion is needed to create such authorities because when the truth is shown they lose their power. Look at the TV news stuff, so much money and effort put in to hiding and keeping the truth away.

Originally posted by John Matrix
Oh! I never realized that One could just take Scripture out of context, and add in their own meaning while ignoring the real meaning that the author was actually conveying. What an interesting revelation.

No doubt you have never realized this or you wouldn't be blindly following ONE person's message that contradicts the real testimony in the Scriptures.

And really, quit making a fool of yourself by saying it is an interesting revelation when you still believe the master of manipulation to the Word.

Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by L.I.B.

 

Btw, I think I should mention this.

I surely do not fight authority because it is authority, or because it is ordained by god. I do not fight authority physically because for me to do so, I would have to become evil myself. At which point, I do not rid the world of evil, I will merely replace it with my own evil. And so the way I fight authority is with truth. Because I recognize and see where authority gets it's power, just like I mentioned before with how symbols are able to give people power. And when people see this truth, then the authority is no longer the authority.

Manipulation and confusion is needed to create such authorities because when the truth is shown they lose their power. Look at the TV news stuff, so much money and effort put in to hiding and keeping the truth away.

You are right. It is not ours to fight them. It has already been declared that we can not do so or they would not believe the one true G.d.

All we can do is unravel the lies that the world has been tangled up in and then follow our path to its inevitable appointment.

Edited to add: however... the inevitable appointment frees us from the wilderness... which is actually

[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]

reply to post by justamomma


This is how God explained it to me. In Genisis, the lamb that was slain to cover Adam and Eve was also as a symbol of a lamb that was slain to cover the sins of His children. Next He showed me the meaning of the passover lamb in Exodus was to sanctify His people. Sanctify means to seperate and cleanse. Was to clean them so they could leave. Notice that they all left and not one feeble one was among them. Read the scripture again to get the full grasp of that. Next He brought me to Is. 53. The savior would come and cleanse His people with His sacrifice of His earthly body. He then showed me numerous scripture in the NT that fulfilled this prophesy.
That's what God showed me, hopefully that helps you as it helped me.

reply to post by justamomma

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by L.I.B.

 

Not so much LIB...

Heb 10:10,12,18
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Did you know that the time of sacrifices has not ended once and for all??

Yes, I knew that those traditions continued.

About Hebrews 10:

1For the Law, since it has only a shadow of the good things to come and not the very form of things, can never, by the same sacrifices which they offer continually year by year, make perfect those who draw near.

~~That sure is the case for Saul who sought out and murdered those who didn't agree with him and his religion.

2Otherwise, would they not have ceased to be offered, because the worshipers, having once been cleansed, would no longer have had consciousness of sins?

~~~With receiving the blood and body of Christ, through each person's own crucifixion, the sin nature is removed. When the sin nature is removed and no longer remembered, where are the sins?

3But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins year by year.

4For it is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

~~~It may be read to mean the blood of goats, but he says that it is the blood of bulls. The scapegoats that are released into the desert, to me, represent the barren nature of the seeking period.

And yes, I too agree that the reminder of sins year after year showed that the sacrifices themselves didn't remove their sin nature.


5Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says,
"SACRIFICE AND OFFERING YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED,
BUT A BODY YOU HAVE PREPARED FOR ME;
6IN WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE TAKEN NO PLEASURE.
7"THEN I SAID, 'BEHOLD, I HAVE COME
(IN THE SCROLL OF THE BOOK IT IS WRITTEN OF ME)
TO DO YOUR WILL, O GOD.'"

~~~Speaking of Jesus whom is referring to the Psalmist who said: Burnt offering and sin offering You have not required. Ps 40:6

Justamomma, can you show where God commanded sacrifices be performed? Since it was the people who wanted to do them, God gave the laws on how it was to be done. PLEASE show me where God required them.

8After saying above, "SACRIFICES AND OFFERINGS AND WHOLE BURNT OFFERINGS AND sacrifices FOR SIN YOU HAVE NOT DESIRED, NOR HAVE YOU TAKEN PLEASURE in them" (which are offered according to the Law),

~~~God takes no pleasure in those animal sacrifices, nor the releasing of the goat to the desert.

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise. Psalm 51:17

9then He said, "BEHOLD, I HAVE COME TO DO YOUR WILL." He takes away the first in order to establish the second.

~~~This is what God takes pleasure in.

10By this will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

~~~When the new life is received that was in Christ Jesus, the sin nature dies.

11Every priest stands daily ministering and offering time after time the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins;

~~~As the psalmist says too.

12but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, SAT DOWN AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,

13waiting from that time onward UNTIL HIS ENEMIES BE MADE A FOOTSTOOL FOR HIS FEET.

~~~And that is true also for anyone who lays down their life (ego) in their own crucifixion.

14For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

~~~Following Jesus requires us to carry our own cross and be crucified upon it just as he did... though not in a literal sense.

15And the Holy Spirit also testifies to us; for after saying,
16"THIS IS THE COVENANT THAT I WILL MAKE WITH THEM
AFTER THOSE DAYS, SAYS THE LORD:
I WILL PUT MY LAWS UPON THEIR HEART,
AND ON THEIR MIND I WILL WRITE THEM,"
He then says,
17"AND THEIR SINS AND THEIR LAWLESS DEEDS
I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE."

~~~Quoting Jeremiah, and this is a fact.

18Now where there is forgiveness of these things, there is no longer any offering for sin.

~~~Indeed. It would just be hollow and empty rituals.

Paul helped to destroy the temple with his lies.

"How so?" she asks

It must have been God's will... as the previous destruction of the temple was.

Daniel 12: 11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Paul made people believe that Jesus was a sacrifice for the sins of the world and yet G.d made it clear when he sent a ram in the place of Isaac that he would NEVER use a human sacrifice for the atonement of sins.

No, as I said in a previous post... 2000 years ago "Christ crucified" was understood to mean receiving the new life.

It was the Emperor Caesar Pope who made people believe it. And made them believe that God could die.

people say the story of Isaac and the ram was a test of obedience... in a sense... but more so, it was a warning of deception to come.

Christ Jesus didn't want to die, as shown by his prayer in the Garden. He could have escaped and avoided what he knew was coming, but he choose to stay.

Jesus' life provides a template for everyone after him to follow.

I do find it interesting though that the change of both the ages involved the *idea* of a sacrificed son. Prior to the sacrificed ram, there was the age of Taurus (the sacrificed bull) to the age of the Aries, with the sacrificial ram.

After the age of Aries containing the Jewish people's temple, sacrificial system and blowing on the ram's horn, came the age of Picseas which continued the theme of the sacrificed son, but the age of the fish is for the fishers of men... where ever and from whatever race of men they might be in so that the spiritual Israel will be gathered to God.

None of those who came with the Ancient of Days will be left behind. It's a promise and guarantee. That doesn't mean, however, that those who make themselves ready to come will be denied.

reply to post by badmedia


Badmedia, I want to solemly apologize for my previous post to you. I can see your point and can see the wisdom in what you just posted to me. I am utterly speechless except to apologize.

I do see myself as apart of God just as Jesus is, as a son. I also am beginning to see the questions I need to ask God.

Again, I apologize for my rudeness, arrogance and pride, which I accused you of. When/if God shows me where Paul went off, I will let you know. Thank you for your patience.