Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

reply to post by badmedia


First off I still don't see where it says that Paul was God. Second, Jesus told Pilot in John 19:11," thou couldest have no power against me, except it were given thee from above..." God choose David to be king. Did you know that there is a blessing when you serve others in the Lord and when you pray for them.? Do you think leaders should be exempt from your prayers? Should we not work to better our society. I agree with another poster that spoke of obeying the laws of the land unless they go against God. When there is no leadership there is no law. Where there is no law, there is chaos because people will do what they want and who can stop them. That people will easily be conquered.

I do think you should have a personal relationship with God, as I think many here think likewise. But one thing I have learned from my relationship with God is to always speak out of love and not a condesending atitude. This whole "I have had an experience with God so I know more than you" is getting old. Maybe that's not how you mean it but that's how you come across. But the fruit that I see displayed here does not seem godly. Revelations from God are given to people to help others, not condemn them.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by John Matrix
And I am convinced that everyday is the Lords Day or Sabath because the Spirit of God is at One with my Spirit.

You have Just been enlightened my friend. How does it feel?

This shows you do NOT pay attention to Jesus' words at all. The Sabbath day was not abolished, neither is it necessary for all to do. Never was, but still is for those to whom it applies.

Your enlightenment is not new by any means. It is a part of you I am convinced. You heap condemnation on others with your words and the funny thing is, it will be heaped back onto your own head.

The Sabbath is not EVERY DAY. It is one day of rest for those keeping the light on for those who recognize it. Keeping the Sabbath day holy everyday would be absolutely impossible and absolutely a wicked thing to say. It shows you have NO understanding whatsoever.

Keeping the Sabbath day holy is a physical light to shine for those who understand it. To say that you are keeping it holy EVERY day is a lie.

Quit talking out your arse.

Yep, it is not abolished for those who choose to be blind and bound. For the Believer, we are not bound to it. So, Sorry again that you are wrong for attacking what I said.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by John Matrix
You are quoting scriptures WAY out of context. The meaning in those scriptures do not support your premiss.
Look at my post above. I spelled it out for you....with proper use of scripture and all properly in context.

I just quoted to show god knows both good and evil. Therefore, god has thoughts which are evil, if he didn't then he wouldn't know both good and evil.

The difference is what thoughts you act on, and recognition that certain thoughts are bad/evil. To understand the difference, and use your free will to choose to act on the good ones.

I made a statement and I proved my point with Scripture. If Satan or any evil thought is in heaven it is only when God summons the evil being before him and God is in control. It's not like he allows evil into all of heaven, as you seem to think. Just read what I gave you and look up the Scriptures, then rightly divide the word of truth, if you can.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by John Matrix
You are quoting scriptures WAY out of context. The meaning in those scriptures do not support your premiss.
Look at my post above. I spelled it out for you....with proper use of scripture and all properly in context.

Wisdom is built on knowledge, understanding and experience.

How does one know good without knowing evil? How does one understand hot if he doesn't understand cold? You can't. You would only ever know if you were cold or hot because someone told you to(an authority), but you wouldn't have an idea if you were or not without experiencing and having knowledge of both. Once you have experienced both hot and cold, then you know the difference and then you choose what temperature is right for you.

And like it or not, but you have eaten from the tree of knowledge. And so you must learn both and choose.

You make it out so that the entire experience here is for nothing and has no point to it.

You have many questions. Keep looking and I am sure you will find the answers.

Knowledge is the raw material, Wisdom is the ability to use it.


[edit on 13-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by justamomma
You wouldn't know the Word if it backhanded you right now. Let's just take a look at what the teachings of Paul have done for you, shall we??

1. You have rebuked "satan" in both myself and badmedia

Ironic, considering

2. You have only supported your claims with the FALSE apostle's words, but nothing out the Tanakh from which he claims his foundation is based.

3. You have destroyed most of the attention of those who were somewhat paying attention in the beginning (which seems to be your agenda)

4. You have claimed a new consciousness... which it was the same from the foundation of the world for those in whom this rests already.

5. You have condemned people that did NOT need to be condemned.

6. You have done everything you can to deny the truth in those who might have been able to see it....

yet the fact remains as this... the TRUTH remains with or without their acknowledgement.

It is NOT the Holy Spirit in which testifies to your spirit.. that I am assured of.


The Holy Spirit = the Word and the Word was not sent to condemn the world, but rather to call to the sheep in whom belong to it.

The Holy Spirit = the Word of which you have yet to use to support any of your FOOLISH claims.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]

What I do I do from Love for God. The Holy Spirit is more than word, it is Divine Love. You tear down, and I try to defend and build up, then you get mad and accuse me? What kind of Spirit is that? Love?......No way. You have a spirit of rebellion against God and his word.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by Wertdagf
Yes paul did indeed i think ruin what was needed to be taught.... he turned everything into idol worship.... worship jesus... worship the chruch...

he ruined it

I remember thinking it... sensing it. I was very glad to see that my gut instincts could be trusted.

There is only ONE G.d and He is not Jesus; nor is Jesus meant to be the light to the world and he was NEVER meant to be the messiah to the world. The light to the world happens to be the Jewish people (which I can also show through Scripture).

I argue that is false. THe jews have been kicked out of nations due to there annoyances..

Jesus was way way way more of a human than an oppressive, repressed lawgiver who claims that "law" and "crucifixion" are the way to salvation..

When God, the true true God. Seeded our world with what the natives found to be ritualistic taking of random plants with certain "effects" which reveal visions. Which is what God is, which is what all ALL religious text is based in..
Drugs and sex.

Deal.

But I will say Jesus always gave props to the father first and told others to do so according to the story.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by mastermind77]

reply to post by mastermind77


So I needed drugs and sex to know there is a God? Umm... I am not drug induced while hearing from God or in a vision. Nor am I having sex during those experiences. I don't care how good the drugs and sex are, I don't need them to experience God.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by One4truth]

Originally posted by One4truth
reply to post by badmedia

 

First off I still don't see where it says that Paul was God. Second, Jesus told Pilot in John 19:11," thou couldest have no power against me, except it were given thee from above..." God choose David to be king. Did you know that there is a blessing when you serve others in the Lord and when you pray for them.? Do you think leaders should be exempt from your prayers? Should we not work to better our society. I agree with another poster that spoke of obeying the laws of the land unless they go against God. When there is no leadership there is no law. Where there is no law, there is chaos because people will do what they want and who can stop them. That people will easily be conquered.

I do think you should have a personal relationship with God, as I think many here think likewise. But one thing I have learned from my relationship with God is to always speak out of love and not a condesending atitude. This whole "I have had an experience with God so I know more than you" is getting old. Maybe that's not how you mean it but that's how you come across. But the fruit that I see displayed here does not seem godly. Revelations from God are given to people to help others, not condemn them.

I quoted Romans, which says that the only power is the power of god, and that the powers that be are ordained by god. It is the this kind of ignorant thinking that has lead to the dark ages and 1600 years of death and destruction. It is the same kind of thinking that keeps us in wars to this very day. It is from this kind of thinking that has lead to the claims the catholic church makes about the pope I listed earlier.

Why don't you just ask me why I do not wash my hands before eating bread? Over and over it's accusations of - you have pride, repent. You are not being nice, you do not love and so on. You do not look at me not for the information and knowledge I bring, but instead based on the manner in which I bring it? Because it doesn't meet what you consider to be a "politically correct" way of doing things? You wish for me to jump through your hoops?

I do not need or care about such heavy compensations. Yes, compensations. Heavy use of such words and "niceness" is what is used to deceive, because evil must appear to be good. And if this is the way you look and decide things, then you are asking to be deceived. Do you seriously expect that which is evil is going to present itself as anything less than nice, friendly and kissing your rear? Does it not say that Satan can appear as an angel? Go talk to a politician if you want someone who is going to be these things for you. They will feed you such things as long as you will eat it.

I am and have been as honest as I can be here. I will NOT sell myself short or settle for less than I am, nor do I wish to put myself above what I am. I am as nice as I can be, but I will not sacrifice truth for it. I will not compromise on what I know to be true for your comfort. I will not shrink down so that you may feel I am being nice.

Who is it that loves - the one who smiles and is nice, or the one who brings you truth and honesty? To which would you attribute love to?

Or as Jesus gives in the parable, which child does the will of the father, the one who smiles and says yes, but then does not do it, or the one who said no, but thought better of it and did so anyway?

If you do not want me to appear as though I am being condescending to you - then get up off your knees and quit kneeling before men. Quit shrinking for the comfort of others. Because you bow down to levels that are lower than you, does not mean I will as well. Nor will I be judged based on it. Anything which may be true of me, is also true of you. The only difference is if/when we realize this.

For any of us to lower ourselves below that which the father has given us is a slap in the face of the father.

I will not be dragged down to bow before man. I will bow and recognize the father within you, but you will first have to bring it forward.




[edit on 13-1-2009 by badmedia]

Was Peter a false prophet too ?


Peter confirms Paul about Kings and Rulers and the laws of the land .
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

1Pe 3:13 And who [is] he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?

1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy [are ye]: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

Peter explains it just like Paul did ...


It is real simple ....dont speed and you wont get a ticket ....dont break the law and more than likely you wont go to jail for anything .....dont flip off the cops as you drive by and they will more than likely not even notice you ..
It is pretty simple ..DO NOT BE A TROUBLE MAKER >>>WHAT GOES AROUND WILL COME AROUND>You will reap what you sow .......what you sow is that which you shall reap ........

PS >..
Dan 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:



[edit on 13-1-2009 by Simplynoone]

reply to post by Simplynoone


I think there is a big difference in following the laws and supporting and asking for the laws and so on.

I'm certainly not like doing things that are illegal and such. Nor would I even recommend that people do such things. As mentioned, if you do such things, then you will pay the price for it.

I would not and will not lift a finger to stop any authority. But I am not going to fight for or support that authority either. I'm not going to seek laws and look at those authorities to judge people for me, and when I think the authority is wrong, then I will speak up and say so.

When Paul says all power is ordained by god, I understand that. I understand that the people will get the authority they deserve, not the authority they want. But there are reasons why such authorities rise to power, and it is generally because of how the people are. So while they may be there for a reason, it's not that we should blindly support or continue the things that lead to that authority to being with as Paul would tell us too.

I understand why the US is so corrupt right now, it's a reflection of the people who are more worried about american idol, being entertained and so on, rather than seeking and looking for truth. A reflection of how people judge others and ask for the authority to push certain agendas. Can't be bothered to take the time to understand why the fed(moneychangers) are robbing them blind. Because of this, the people have gotten the authority they deserve. But I am not going to support that authority as Paul would have me. Instead, I will worry more about truth than American Idol. I will take the time to understand how the people are robbed, and will not use authority as a way of judging others and I will try to show people the same. And then if the people do this, they will no longer deserve this corruption and they will not fall for such things and by default no longer deserve it.

[it's not that we should blindly support or continue the things that lead to that authority to being with as Paul would tell us too.]

Paul does not say to blindly support authority .....in fact Paul was killed by the same authorities you claim he blindly supported.If he was blindly supporting them why did they kill him ?

reply to post by justamomma

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by L.I.B. Contrary to your assertion the false teacher is the whore of Babylon... the church as set up by Emperor Pope Constantine... who had never given up his paganism.

You do not know for a fact that Paul did not meet Jesus face to face.

I have and as such I would recognize another who has... just as the other apostles did despite their initial suspicion.

LIB.. I would like for you to show me where I said that the false teacher is the whore of Babylon. I have made no such silly claims. I find all of that to be in a whole different catagory from those who buy into Paul's teachings.

You need to at least prove I said this before riding on this assumption. It is false.

Just like Paul, you make silly assumptions. I have done more than most of you in this thread and at least backed my claims up on the same text that Paul used... If you believe his claims then back them up by the Hebrew Scriptures. Don't go around making false statements to distract please.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]

There should have been a comma after the word assertion. I didn't think I needed to remind you what your assertion was.

Anyway, I shall reword so that my statement doesn't confuse you:

Contrary to your assertion, which is that Paul is a false teacher, the false teacher is the whore of Babylon... the church as set up by Emperor Pope Constantine... who had never given up his paganism.

By the way, did you happen to read badmedia's posts on page 31?

reply to post by Simplynoone

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Was Peter a false prophet too ?


Peter confirms Paul about Kings and Rulers and the laws of the land .
1Pe 2:13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

1Pe 2:14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

1Pe 3:13 And who [is] he that will harm you, if ye be followers of that which is good?

1Pe 3:14 But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy [are ye]: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

Peter explains it just like Paul did ...

PS >..
Dan 2:21 And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:
[edit on 13-1-2009 by Simplynoone]

Jesus supported authority too.

They said to Him, "Caesar's." Then He said to them, " Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's." Matthew 22:21

and...

1Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, 2saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses; 3therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them. Matthew 23:1-3

Originally posted by Simplynoone
[it's not that we should blindly support or continue the things that lead to that authority to being with as Paul would tell us too.]

Paul does not say to blindly support authority .....in fact Paul was killed by the same authorities you claim he blindly supported.If he was blindly supporting them why did they kill him ?

1Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

Of course, this begs the question - when 2 powers collide, and if the only power is the power of god, then why power was god?

This all leads to confusion. Does this not suggest that Jesus was to receive damnation? And if Paul is killed as you say, then he resisted and received damnation as well. Of course, now we have that same power using his writings as the basis for their authority - quite odd don't you think?

Contrary to popular belief, I do actually understand Paul. But these are the same arguments as justification for Satan.

reply to post by John Matrix


If you do it for love, than you should be able to back up your love with the same text that Paul claims to use.

Don't throw your love BS at me. I love as well... still doesn't negate that you are teaching one thing and I am teaching another.

Your teaching is based on what one man says and he claims that it is based on the Tanakh.

I know the Tanakh... each day it is becoming more like the back of my hand. I claim my teachings are from G.d and that He has shown me these things for a purpose.

Who is right?? LETS NOT EVEN argue *who* has the truth.

Who is right?

Me: Paul's teachings are NOT based on the Tanakh and he manipulated what he pulled out of it.

You: Paul is right .... well, that's really all you've given.

reply to post by badmedia


You still have a lack of understanding those verses ....and you even refuse to read reference scriptures which helps explain it ..(Peter and the scriptures from Jesus himself that LIB Brought up ) ..

Everyone on this thread agrees with the fact that PEOPLE who read that may misunderstand the message and may blindly follow authority ....and we also agree that many authorities are using scriptures to benefit their agendas ......WE ALL AGREE WITH THAT >.as we have told you many times on this thread .....

If your not getting that ...then I dont know what to say from here to you ..

One thing though that YOU DO NEED to think about ..
You are going to feel pretty bad when you realize that you are falsely accusing someone who was called and chosen by God (Paul) and not only preached the Lord Jesus Christ and his rightousness but also GAVE UP HIS OWN LIFE FOR HIM >..............
Lets not forget ...you shall reap what you have sown ...and if anyone is led astray due to YOUR FALSE ACCUSATIONS against Paul ..you my friend will be held accountable for that ................

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by One4truth
reply to post by badmedia

 

"I quoted Romans, which says that the only power is the power of god, and that the powers that be are ordained by god. It is the this kind of ignorant thinking that has lead to the dark ages and 1600 years of death and destruction. It is the same kind of thinking that keeps us in wars to this very day. It is from this kind of thinking that has lead to the claims the catholic church makes about the pope I listed earlier."

Why don't you just ask me why I do not wash my hands before eating bread? Over and over it's accusations of - you have pride, repent. You are not being nice, you do not love and so on. You do not look at me not for the information and knowledge I bring, but instead based on the manner in which I bring it? Because it doesn't meet what you consider to be a "politically correct" way of doing things? You wish for me to jump through your hoops?

I do not need or care about such heavy compensations. Yes, compensations. Heavy use of such words and "niceness" is what is used to deceive, because evil must appear to be good. And if this is the way you look and decide things, then you are asking to be deceived. Do you seriously expect that which is evil is going to present itself as anything less than nice, friendly and kissing your rear? Does it not say that Satan can appear as an angel? Go talk to a politician if you want someone who is going to be these things for you. They will feed you such things as long as you will eat it.

I am and have been as honest as I can be here. I will NOT sell myself short or settle for less than I am, nor do I wish to put myself above what I am. I am as nice as I can be, but I will not sacrifice truth for it. I will not compromise on what I know to be true for your comfort. I will not shrink down so that you may feel I am being nice.

Who is it that loves - the one who smiles and is nice, or the one who brings you truth and honesty? To which would you attribute love to?

Or as Jesus gives in the parable, which child does the will of the father, the one who smiles and says yes, but then does not do it, or the one who said no, but thought better of it and did so anyway?

If you do not want me to appear as though I am being condescending to you - then get up off your knees and quit kneeling before men. Quit shrinking for the comfort of others. Because you bow down to levels that are lower than you, does not mean I will as well. Nor will I be judged based on it. Anything which may be true of me, is also true of you. The only difference is if/when we realize this.

For any of us to lower ourselves below that which the father has given us is a slap in the face of the father.

I will not be dragged down to bow before man. I will bow and recognize the father within you, but you will first have to bring it forward."


Edited twice but I still can't seem to get my response out of badmedias post. Below is my response. One4truth


James 1:5 "if any of you lack wisdom let him ask of God, that gives to all men liberally, AND UPBRAIDETH NOT, and it shall be given him". When you had your vision from God, did He yell at you and call you ignorant? Did He speak in a condesending attitude towards you? Whenever I have sought God for wisdom, He speaks to me as a loving father to a beloved son. James chapter 3 sums up my thoughts.
I would love to learn what you have learned from God, but you cut that off with your venomus posts and replies. I am constantly trying to learn and have many questions for you, but why would I ask them when I would have to sift through your twisted rhetoric to get to it.
I don't shrink down to others, because I am on the same level as them, except God has given me some knowledge to share. That is not an excuse for a holier than thou attitude. Just as Jesus taught children out of love, I will do the same.
Jesus lowered Himself to us to teach us and bring us to the Father, so did Jesus slap the face of His Fathre? Jesus was the son of God,right? He didn't think it robbery to be equal with God.
Anyway, I have had enough of responding to your hatred to us "lower" ignorant (in your eyes) folk. In your next post could you do me and everyone else who you are trying to "enlighten" a favor, and edit out any venom you spilled when you opened your mouth. If its not too below you, of course.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by One4truth]

[edit on 13-1-2009 by One4truth]

Originally posted by L.I.B.
There should have been a comma after the word assertion. I didn't think I needed to remind you what your assertion was.

Anyway, I shall reword so that my statement doesn't confuse you:

Contrary to your assertion, which is that Paul is a false teacher, the false teacher is the whore of Babylon... the church as set up by Emperor Pope Constantine... who had never given up his paganism.

By the way, did you happen to read badmedia's posts on page 31?

huh.. ya know. I know that badmedia makes this claim and I have not discounted it. I went to say that badmedia does not = justamomma, but I couldn't because when I wrote it, the following along with the references in Daniel came to mind. I have never paid much attention to Daniel because in times past, I could not understand it. Now... well.

whore of babylon = that would be those who were in the babylonian captivity that understood the power of the Word and set forth to establish their own kingdom that is false. they whored the Word.

the beast = that would be the "one" in whom has set forth to establish the abomination of desolation which is so obvious it is a wonder that any still try to figure it out. It has been set in the Holy Place.

Understanding can only come from the Shepherd... He enters through the gate and He calls His sheep out by name. There is such peace in this.

Daniel 11: 27-28, 31-35
And both of these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed.

Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.

And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.

And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.


Daniel 12: 2-4, 9-10
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.


NOTE: "And they that understand among the people shall instruct many."

reply to post by Simplynoone


He is instructing you wisely Simplynoone. It is the truth. He is trying to help you, not debase you.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
[it's not that we should blindly support or continue the things that lead to that authority to being with as Paul would tell us too.]

Paul does not say to blindly support authority .....in fact Paul was killed by the same authorities you claim he blindly supported.If he was blindly supporting them why did they kill him ?

You show you still see things too physically. If one understands, then one can see that Paul was busy establishing a kingdom.

And really, even physically... you can easily read the fear if you are reading through with the correct eyes.

He wasn't in it for YOU... he was in this for him. The proof can be found when he says, if the dead won't resurrect, let's eat and drink for tomorrow we die. (I Cor. 15:32)

So, while he feared the actual death process, he knew the power of the Word.

But he shows his intent was not pure because trust me, one who KNOWS G.d and who IS a true messenger of G.d will never say, if... then.

Whether I live or die, as long as I am alive my heart will always search and love the L.RD my G.d. I cannot be persuaded otherwise. I am not after a reward. I am after the Truth and I will instruct others toward it though I offer no rewards beyond the truth. Paul, not so much.



[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]