Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

Originally posted by justamomma
No JM.. no doubt you would not recognize the type of love that is in my heart.

I also don't make it a habit of telling people that if they obtain salvation they don't deserve it and if they perish, *that* they deserve.

There you go again!! You did not understand a word concerning my explanation and you make assertions and assumptions.

You might not mean to twist every one's words to suit your agenda, but that is what you are doing. Think, Read, Think some more....try to see the meaning that the author is trying to convey!! You missed my entire explanation....wooosh...right over your Head! C'mon. I'm serious, a child could understand what I said, and they could also see that you missed the explanation...LOL

[edit on 14-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by John Matrix
Teachings that people claim are from God, must be confirmed with Scripture. That is what I Do.

Proverbs 14: 25
A true witness delivereth souls: but a deceitful witness speaketh lies.

Prove now that you are not the latter because I just quoted you as saying "teachers that people claim are from God, must be confirmed with Scripture. That is what I do."

You have not confirmed Paul through the Tanakh on which he claims to be basing his message. Do it now since you just made the claim that you do. Otherwise...

You miss quoted me....I said teachings....not teachers!! No matter, the Spirit works with my Spirit and I confirm any teachings to that of Scipture.

Question for you: Does Paul quote directly from the Tanakh in His writings?

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by Simplynoone

 

You say that I am wrong.. but everything I have said, I have backed up with Scripture after Scripture after Scripture.

I have still yet to see anyone do the same with Paul's teaching.

You can't just *say* we are wrong. Prove it.... only *bites nails nervously* please stop using Paul's words to prove his message.

That is a failure of logic to use some one's words to support their own message.

Paul's writings are Scriptures too, so why should we prove that Paul's teachings are found in the Torah.
You trust ancient texts that are thousands of yrs Older then the NT, yet the NT has 4 Gospel accounts by different authors.
The NT also has other witnesses to these events. James was the Brother of Jesus for example, yet Jame's Teaching is right in Line with Paul's teaching....I proved that already, praise Lord.

So why do you believe ancient texts over the NT?
Do you have more than five authors teaching about the exact same events in the Torah.
The NT does, and that fact alone should make you trust it More than the Torah.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
I am sorry Badmedia but you and Justamomma do not know the same Paul and Jesus that I know .......everything yall teach and believe is not only contrary but completely contrary to the word (both OT and NT) .....And completely opposite from what the Lord I know TAUGHT ME (not just from the bible but in my heart )
About as bad as David Koresh was and many others that I wont even name.(he had some strange teachings) and certainly you have the ability to lead people away from the truth .........into damnation ...especially since yall are leading people away from Jesus Christ and not only that ..but saying that his death was all in vain ......

Because if your wrong and the bible was right and people believed you ..they would follow you to a place of eternal torment ...are you really really sure you want to take that kind of responsibility ?
As you know ...alot of people can be easily led around ...tossed to and fro like the wind with doctrines of men (which is what yall are teaching right now)

Which is in my opinion worse than what your accusing Paul of doing ...

I am sorry if that offends either one of you ....but to me the truth is the truth and your truths are mixed with lies ....
Dont take it personally ...but the more yall talk the worse it gets ...
Your making me actually cringe with some of your posts ...

You know, I have about had it with your accusations. You seriously just likened me to someone like David Koresh.

Your accusations aren't even in line with the teachings. Least I remind you what it is that can not be forgiven.

I will wipe my feet clean of you and your accusations of fear. Please remove me from your friends list, you are no friend of mine.

reply to post by John Matrix


FYI, the meek inherit the earth, they do not go to heaven.

adj., meek·er, meek·est.

1. Showing patience and humility; gentle.
2. Easily imposed on; submissive.

Originally posted by badmedia
reply to post by John Matrix

 

FYI, the meek inherit the earth, they do not go to heaven.

adj., meek·er, meek·est.

1. Showing patience and humility; gentle.
2. Easily imposed on; submissive.

I see that once again you need to have your "One Verse Charley" interpretations corrected. You define Meek correctly, but you do not understand what the verse means.

First, it is important to state what Meek is NOT, so that there are no misconceptions. Meek does not mean Weak. Meek is the opposite to Proud and arrogant. Enough said on that.

Now, The phrase "inherit the earth" is a figure of speech which denotes the highest of blessings. These blessings are realized when the righteous enjoy the good things of life which the wicked often overlook in their pursuit of living for their selfish fallen nature. Also there is the peace, security and hope in Christ. And finally there is "the new heavens and a new earth" to be revealed at the end of time (II PETER 3:15). The meek truly shall "inherit the earth"! This does not mean that the Meek will not be in Heaven. In fact, True Believers will rule and reign over the earth with Christ, and we will have our homes in Heaven. Jesus said he was leaving to prepare a place for believers. The City of Heaven will be visible from earth and house believers in "many mansions". Believers will shuttle back and forth at will and at the speed of thought between the earth and the City of Heaven.

reply to post by badmedia


Now, now.....be nice to Simplynoone. She is only trying to lead you to the One True Light, because we know that the Devil and his demons disguise themselves as angels of light.

It is very clear to us that you are very mislead and confused about Scripture. As the Spirit leads us we will correct your errors one by one to bring Glory to the Lord.

You should be thankful that you have people here that serve the Lord and correct your faulty interpretations of Scripture. I mean, over and over again you make assumptions and then throw out some Scriptures to back yourself up in such a blasphemous way at times.

So don't expect to make incorrect assumptions concerning Scripture to back up your faulty misconceptions without being Corrected.

We are speaking the Truth in Love to help you.

reply to post by John Matrix


Actually, earth = earth. The Jewish people do not and have never believed in the concept of heaven that the christians hold to. The christian view of heaven is a pagan view.

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by John Matrix

 

Actually, earth = earth. The Jewish people do not and have never believed in the concept of heaven that the christians hold to. The christian view of heaven is a pagan view.

No, it is a Scriptural view that was taught by a Jew who knew the Torah much better than you and the pharisees. His mane was Jesus. It was also taught by Jesus brother James, John, Peter, Paul and others. Because the teachings are confirmed by many authors, as well as Jewish Historians, other texts found by archaeologists, etc. and because it is not as old as the OT, it is more reliable and should be taken as fact.

reply to post by badmedia


I actually respect you even more for this to be honest, badmedia.

Psalm 1

Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away.

Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish.


The promise:

Ezekiel 24

24 Thus Ezekiel is unto you a sign: according to all that he hath done shall ye do: and when this cometh, ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.

25 Also, thou son of man, shall it not be in the day when I take from them their strength, the joy of their glory, the desire of their eyes, and that whereupon they set their minds, their sons and their daughters,

26 That he that escapeth in that day shall come unto thee, to cause thee to hear it with thine ears?

27 In that day shall thy mouth be opened to him which is escaped, and thou shalt speak, and be no more dumb: and thou shalt be a sign unto them; and they shall know that I am the LORD.






[edit on 14-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by John Matrix
You miss quoted me....I said teachings....not teachers!! No matter, the Spirit works with my Spirit and I confirm any teachings to that of Scipture.

Question for you: Does Paul quote directly from the Tanakh in His writings?

Education for everyone.. The Scriptures is the Tanakh. The New Testament is not the Scriptures. About the only thing worth anything in them is the Word that is spoken. But as far as what we were given to decipher that..that would be the Scriptures aka the Tanakh aka the Word of G.d.. not the OLD testament.. the NOW testament.

(arrrghhh.. I answered your question JM, but apparently it just wasn't meant for you to see.. so, whatever)

[edit on 14-1-2009 by justamomma]

So now I am ungodly Justamomma ? nice ...

Badmedia I meant yours and Justamommas teachings are like his were ...he had some wacked out interpretations of scripture ...he chopped it and took bits and pieces from all over and came up with some whacked interpretations ...
I should have explained that better ...

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by John Matrix
You miss quoted me....I said teachings....not teachers!! No matter, the Spirit works with my Spirit and I confirm any teachings to that of Scipture.

Question for you: Does Paul quote directly from the Tanakh in His writings?

Education for everyone.. The Scriptures is the Tanakh. The New Testament is not the Scriptures. About the only thing worth anything in them is the Word that is spoken. But as far as what we were given to decipher that..that would be the Scriptures aka the Tanakh aka the Word of G.d.. not the OLD testament.. the NOW testament.

(arrrghhh.. I answered your question JM, but apparently it just wasn't meant for you to see.. so, whatever)

[edit on 14-1-2009 by justamomma]

The NT is also Scripture. You can believe what you want in that regard. But you are denying historical facts, including the testimony of Jews that lived and walked with Jesus.

Originally posted by Simplynoone
Because if your wrong and the bible was right and people believed you ..they would follow you to a place of eternal torment ...are you really really sure you want to take that kind of responsibility ?
As you know ...alot of people can be easily led around ...tossed to and fro like the wind with doctrines of men (which is what yall are teaching right now)

Which is in my opinion worse than what your accusing Paul of doing ...

I am not wrong. Badmedia is not wrong. The Scriptures testify to what we are saying. Paul's writings do not = the Scriptures.

I hope with ALL my heart that people listen to us and search out what we are saying. Quit looking at the Scriptures as a thing that was in the past and the hope of G.d as a thing in the future. It is the magicians trick pulled over your eyes.

Hosea 4: 6 testifies that we are right
My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

You are trying to cover your sins in the same way that Adam and the woman tried to cover their own nakedness. You think you are hid and you are not. G.d is asking you where you are and when you answer HONESTLY, HE will cover you with His right hand. There is no other way.

There are no magic words. There are no free gifts. There is the Law and until you can face it as you are, until you can admit to Him who you are and what you have done and accept what He says (not what Paul says), there is no hope. G.d is the only Savior.. there is no other... it is Him.

Adam and the woman tried and in the end, they had to stand before Him in their nakedness.. and *HE* covered them. They did not escape having to face Him as they were.

Personally... I faced Him.. and I have seen His right hand and it is why I can now say that I LOVE HIS Laws and His ways. They are my redemption given to me by my Redeemer.

Daniel 11
And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.

Originally posted by justamomma

Originally posted by John Matrix
You miss quoted me....I said teachings....not teachers!! No matter, the Spirit works with my Spirit and I confirm any teachings to that of Scipture.

Question for you: Does Paul quote directly from the Tanakh in His writings?

Education for everyone.. The Scriptures is the Tanakh. The New Testament is not the Scriptures. About the only thing worth anything in them is the Word that is spoken. But as far as what we were given to decipher that..that would be the Scriptures aka the Tanakh aka the Word of G.d.. not the OLD testament.. the NOW testament.

(arrrghhh.. I answered your question JM, but apparently it just wasn't meant for you to see.. so, whatever)

[edit on 14-1-2009 by justamomma]

1. The Old Testament was NOT meant to be a permanent covenant. In fact, the Old Testament foretells its own end.

2. Let’s start with Deuteronomy 18:18, 19 where God speaks to Moses saying, “I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him.”
Moses tells the people that one day a new prophet will rise up and there will be a change in leadership. At that time they will no longer be under the Old Law .

3. In Acts 3:22-26 Peter refers to Deuteronomy 18:18 and tells us that Jesus is the prophet God spoke about. Peter said, For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”

4. God told Moses another prophet would rise up and God would require people to follow this new prophet. Peter said that Jesus is that prophet. In Matthew 28:18 Jesus shows Himself to be this prophet when He said, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.”

5. Today we follow Jesus. He is our leader. The days of the Old Testament ruling in the lives of men are gone. Today we under the authority of God’s new Prophet and His New Testament.

6. Jeremiah 31:31-32 The temporary nature of the Old Testament is brought out with even greater clarity in Jeremiah 31:31-32 where God says, “Behold the days are coming says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the Lord.”

7. The Old Testament clearly foretold its own end. It directly states that the new covenant will be different from the one that God established with Israel. In other words, the Old Testament was designed to expire. It had a specific job to do and when that job was done, it expired and the New Testament would replaced it (see also Hosea 2:11; Hebrews 8:7).

8. Mathew 5: 17 says Jesus did not intend to sabotage the Old Testament or to work against it, but to fulfill its purpose. Jesus himself would complete the mission of the Old Testament, bring it to its intended end, and replace it with the New Testament (see also Matthew 28:18-20; Heb. 1:1, 2).

9. Jesus said until the old covenant was fulfilled, it would stand firm down to the smallest jot and tittle (jots and tittles are comparable to the dot above an i and the cross mark on a t). Jesus warned that anyone who broke the least commandment of the Old Testament prior to its expiration would not go unpunished.

10. About 30 years after Jesus gave this warning, the apostle Paul said, “neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything” (Gal. 5:6; I Cor. 7:19). In the Old Testament circumcision was more than just a jot or a tittle, it was a major point of the Old Testament (Gen. 17:14). Yet, Paul taught that this part of the Old Testament was gone. Why did Paul do this? Why did Paul teach people they were no longer under the Old Testament? Paul taught this new doctrine because Jesus told him to do so (Gal. 1:11, 12).

11. Not only did Paul dismiss circumcision, he dismissed the dietary laws, feast laws, and even the Sabbath law (Col. 2:16,17). These were all important parts of the Old Testament, yet Paul teaches that obedience in these things is no longer required.

12. Let’s reason this out now. Jesus said that anyone who broke the least law of the Old Testament and taught others to break the law would not go unpunished. Next, under the direction of Jesus, Paul declares the Old Testament is no longer binding.

13. The Old Cov. is not binding because Jesus succeeded in His mission to fulfill the Old Testament. Jesus brought the Old Testament to its intended conclusion and replaced it with a better testament, the New Testament.

14. Paul's revelation from Christ is correct and it lines up with the prophecies of the OT and what Jesus preached of Himself concerning His being the fulfillment of the OT prophecies and the One who comes to fulfill the Law. Which is what we have already shown you numerous times.






[edit on 14-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
So now I am ungodly Justamomma ? nice ...

Badmedia I meant yours and Justamommas teachings are like his were ...he had some wacked out interpretations of scripture ...he chopped it and took bits and pieces from all over and came up with some whacked interpretations ...
I should have explained that better ...

I have called you no such thing. I put a passage up that is the truth. I do not know you.

And no.. everything that I have pulled from the Bible I can put into context. I have gone through as I said I would and looked at the Scriptures that were used by everyone to support Paul and have found nothing that can be put back into context and maintain the same meaning that you and others have claimed it to mean.

For instance, the covenant in Jeremiah 31 (about writing the law on the heart) was pulled out of context by LIB to say that this meant all. As I showed, it did NOT apply to all.. it applied to the house of Israel only (not even the house of Judah).

I wouldn't worry so much about me honestly. I trust what G.d said in Proverbs 2. I know that He is speaking now through His prophets. He is the Shepherd that entered through the gate.

The lies of Paul are written all over the Tanakh as a warning and G.d, our Redeemer, is opening our eyes to them. It is an amazing thing to witness and now I understand what He meant when He told Israel, the ones sent into the wilderness, you will KNOW THAT I am the L.RD your G.d (speaking of when He opens the seal of the prophecies).

Too many are looking for a man/an image/the symbol. They have trusted the words of a man blindly even though they cannot understand it. The only thing that you all understand is that you were told you were covered and to wait for the hope. The hope is not *then* or *when* ... it is *now.*

reply to post by justamomma


yeah ok ...lol ......you and badmedia are the new prophets ..you have put all the apostles and Jesus Christ to shame and showed them to be liars .after 2000 years their word has been uncovered and was found to be lies by YOU AND BADMEDIA ......your word over the word of God ...toss the word of God for your word ....yeah okay .....NOT ....

Consider this a rebuke in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ ...
You both sound just like the devil in the garden ..........

Enough of this madness .... ..I am done with this ..it is blasphemy .............

reply to post by justamomma


Actually, Jeremiah 31 applies to those that believe in Christ as their Redeemer and Savior. Christ raises the fallen Spirit in us from the dead, for the purpose of renewing our Souls(heart, mind, consciousness) through Spiritual growth.

Believers are Spiritually grafted into Israel. We are "Spiritual Israel" and Heirs of all the promises made to Israel. That's difficult for the Proud to accept...and it might be especially difficult for a Jew to accept, but that has nothing to do with us believers. Take it up with God if you are too Proud to accept it.

One more thing ..


Yes HE covered them with his RIGHT HAND >.which is JESUS CHRIST who sits at the RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER ......

Now study that and see what you come up with ..

Hbr 10:4 For [it is] not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Hbr 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Hbr 10:6 In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin thou hast had no pleasure.

Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Hbr 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and [offering] for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure [therein]; which are offered by the law;

Hbr 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.

Hbr 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].

Hbr 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

Hbr 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

Hbr 10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

Hbr 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hbr 10:15 [Whereof] the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Hbr 10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

Hbr 10:18 Now where remission of these [is, there is] no more offering for sin.

Hbr 10:19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

Hbr 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Hbr 10:21 And [having] an high priest over the house of God;

Originally posted by John Matrix
The NT is also Scripture. You can believe what you want in that regard. But you are denying historical facts, including the testimony of Jews that lived and walked with Jesus.

All but the Word that is spoken is merely heresay. The Word is all that can be supported by the Tanakh.

The Torah is a vision.. it is depicting something.. but you probably believe that a man stood on a mountain in the physical realm to receive the tablet of stone, no? And you probably think that it was THEN that the children of Israel were not listening and rejected the Law of G.d.. am I right?

Daniel 11... Can you even understand it?? It talks about what the NT is.. it is a forecasting of *their* devices. G.d being gracious to His elect.. His children. He wrote His laws on the heart of Israel because they were scattered into the wilderness. As it states in Isaiah, Israel has to suck the milk of the gentiles.. thus the covenant of the law on the heart to them as stated in Jeremiah 31... so they would *not* be decieved and stumble on the stumblingblock that was laid in the NT.

But you are looking at the wrong forecast. It will fail. G.d is infinitely more brilliant. They have you looking for Jesus to return from the sky when honestly, the Son of man has returned. You are just focused on the lie and can't see it. I speak the truth and it will come to pass and you will see then that I do not lie to you. All will see that G.d alone is the Savior of His people because they have faced His Law and have seen HIs right hand.

Of course, for someone who probably believes that Jesus was born of a virgin physically, why would you listen to me?

Jesus, if he was born in this world and not just a vision, had an earthly mother and an earthly father. He was not exempt from the laws of nature. Remember, man breaks laws, not G.d. It is the truth.