Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

reply to post by badmedia


Jesus said "The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

People born of the Spirit move as the wind... no one sees from where it comes or to where it goes. Though, those born of the Spirit knows to where they go and what they see.

In the verses I then referred you to:

44Now Philip was from Bethsaida, of the city of Andrew and Peter.

45Philip found Nathanael and said to him, "We have found Him of whom Moses in the Law and also the Prophets wrote--Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph."

46Nathanael said to him, "Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?" Philip said to him, "Come and see."

*** Philip "finds" (didn't know his exact whereabouts) his brother Nathanael and says come meet whom Moses spoke of.


47Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!"

48Nathanael said to Him, "How do You know me?" Jesus answered and said to him, "Before Philip called you, when you were under the fig tree, I saw you."

*** Jesus sees Nathanael knowing him and his "nature" already and Nathanael inquires how Jesus knows him. Jesus indicates that before Philip called him, that Jesus saw him. How did Jesus see him?

Especially when considering Nathanael knew how he had seen him:

49Nathanael answered Him, "Rabbi, You are the Son of God; You are the King of Israel."

50Jesus answered and said to him, "Because I said to you that I saw you under the fig tree, do you believe? You will see greater things than these."

The Spirit moves as the wind and no one sees it... such is the way for those born of the Spirit. Those born of the Spirit knows where it goes and what it sees and does... hence how Jesus saw Nathanael under the tree.

So, what I am getting at is... even though you know the Father is in you, i.e. accepted them into your heart and they have come and made their abode with you... are you born of the Spirit also?

Since you haven't known what I have been talking about, I would say you haven't. Because, you would know without a doubt... just like you knew without a doubt "in that day" you experienced.

There's more... oh so much more!

P.S. Good night!




[edit on 12-1-2009 by L.I.B.]

reply to post by badmedia


Here we go again....you are making me work too much....LOL.

Satan was originally one of God’s holy angels, but he rebelled against God and was cast out of heaven (Luke 10:18). That was only the first stage of his judgment. Satan’s kingdom was vanquished at the cross (John 12:31-32). Later, he will be bound in the abyss for one thousand years (Revelation 20:1-3) and then will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity (Revelation 20:10).

Until his final judgment, Satan is “the prince of this world” (John 14:30), but it seems that he still has restricted access to the heavenly realms. In Job 1:6, Satan stands in the presence of God. (See 2 Chronicles 18:18-21 for a similar situation involving a “lying spirit.”)

Since God is holy and absolutely without sin (Isaiah 6:3), and since He will not even look on evil (Habakkuk 1:13), how can Satan be in heaven? The answer involves God’s sovereign restraint of sin. In Job 1, Satan stood before God to give an account of himself. God initiated the meeting, led the proceedings, and remained in absolute control (verse 7). The result was that Satan’s power was limited (verse 12) and God was glorified.

Here are some other facts to note: 1) Satan does not have open access to God’s presence. He is summoned by God. 2) The visits are temporary. His time before God’s throne is limited. 3) In no way is the purity of heaven tainted by the brief, God-ordained presence of a sinful being, “quarantined,” as it were, by God’s regulatory power. And, 4) Satan’s access is only granted prior to the final judgment. After the judgment, God creates a new heaven and new earth (Revelation 21:1), wipes away all tears from our eyes (verse 4), reveals the New Jerusalem (verse 10), and promises the complete absence of sin (verse 27).

When we say, “God cannot allow sin into heaven,” we simply mean that God cannot allow human beings who are still in their sin to live in His presence. But it is possible for God to command a sinful being to stand (temporarily) in His presence in order to commission him (Isaiah 6), to exact an account from him (Job 1-2), or to judge him (Revelation 20:11-15) without compromising His holiness.

God’s holiness will eventually consume all sin. Until that day, His holiness regulates sin, and that means that Satan, on certain occasions, is briefly summoned before his Creator to give an account of his actions.

Originally posted by John Matrix
Sorry, Satan was thrown down from heaven with legions of His Demon followers. There will be no Evil in Heaven.

However, where you are going there most likely will be evil, unless you repent.

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

More likely is that those who go where there are no "evil thoughts" don't understand and lack the capacity to see the evil they are trapped in.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by John Matrix
Sorry, Satan was thrown down from heaven with legions of His Demon followers. There will be no Evil in Heaven.

However, where you are going there most likely will be evil, unless you repent.

Genesis 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Genesis 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

More likely is that those who go where there are no "evil thoughts" don't understand and lack the capacity to see the evil they are trapped in.

You are quoting scriptures WAY out of context. The meaning in those scriptures do not support your premiss.
Look at my post above. I spelled it out for you....with proper use of scripture and all properly in context.

reply to post by John Matrix


mmmm... correct and incorrect... he is and he isn't. For *him* it is not out of context.

"Our battle is not against flesh and blood. We battle against the powers of darkness in this world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Judgement Day is coming.....you can be saved even though you don't deserve it.....or perish, which is what you deserve."

Hey, JM.. noticed your sig. So, if they are saved, they don't deserve it but if they perish, they deserve it.

Care to elaborate on your twisted logic here?

Sounds an awful lot like the spirit of Paul dwells deep within you. If you do good, it is not you; but if you do evil.. well, that *is* you.

We came not to condemn the world.

reply to post by L.I.B.


I do believe we will disagree on what it means to be born again.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

As I said before, this is when you realize and see John 14:20 and understand the connection with god for yourself. When this happens, then you become of the virgin birth, meaning you see yourself as being born not from flesh, but from spirit, and of the consciousness of god.

Yes, it was very much like being born again. As I had a new father. I was not born onto this earth as a result of flesh on flesh, only my body and flesh was. My parents did not create me, nor am I product of them, my body and flesh is. I, and what is truly me is born of spirit/consciousness.

I talk about this and things like consciousness and what it means to be conscious a lot. There is a reason science is scared to death of consciousness, because that is something they can NOT see where it comes from, or where it goes. Science by it's very nature is unable to deal with consciousness, because it is not predictable, or subject to the laws of action vs reaction, as the flesh and this world is. Such things are not able to be repeated in a lab 99.9% of the time. The closest science is able to do is try to look at behavioral patterns and identify things based on that, which has obvious flaws in itself.

And I tell people that as long as they see themselves as merely flesh and a product of this environment, they will not understand what I am talking about.

I point these things out about consciousness/spirit all the time. So /shrug?

Originally posted by L.I.B.
What about what Jesus said? " The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." John 3:8

Isaiah 57 shows the purpose of Jesus' words here.

Originally posted by John Matrix
And I am convinced that everyday is the Lords Day or Sabath because the Spirit of God is at One with my Spirit.

You have Just been enlightened my friend. How does it feel?

This shows you do NOT pay attention to Jesus' words at all. The Sabbath day was not abolished, neither is it necessary for all to do. Never was, but still is for those to whom it applies.

Your enlightenment is not new by any means. It is a part of you I am convinced. You heap condemnation on others with your words and the funny thing is, it will be heaped back onto your own head.

The Sabbath is not EVERY DAY. It is one day of rest for those keeping the light on for those who recognize it. Keeping the Sabbath day holy everyday would be absolutely impossible and absolutely a wicked thing to say. It shows you have NO understanding whatsoever.

Keeping the Sabbath day holy is a physical light to shine for those who understand it. To say that you are keeping it holy EVERY day is a lie.

Quit talking out your arse.

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy



VERY GOOD!! *claps*

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by John Matrix
What I am saying to you is no where near as harsh as what Jesus was to the Pharisees and Sadducees. Jesus ridiculed those that Mocked Him.

Like I said, who do you think you are?

Do you think you are the only person I have said things to? You have no idea what kind of ridicule and persectuion I have faced in the past 7 years. None at all. I have had death threats made against me and so on for the things I say.

I know who I am. Who do you think I am? Oh wait, you answer that already.

*giggles*

Originally posted by John Matrix
You are quoting scriptures WAY out of context. The meaning in those scriptures do not support your premiss.
Look at my post above. I spelled it out for you....with proper use of scripture and all properly in context.

I just quoted to show god knows both good and evil. Therefore, god has thoughts which are evil, if he didn't then he wouldn't know both good and evil.

The difference is what thoughts you act on, and recognition that certain thoughts are bad/evil. To understand the difference, and use your free will to choose to act on the good ones.

The rich man in the eyes of god is the man with wisdom.

"The ability to discern or judge what is true, right, or lasting; insight."

Wisdom is built on knowledge, understanding and experience.

How does one know good without knowing evil? How does one understand hot if he doesn't understand cold? You can't. You would only ever know if you were cold or hot because someone told you to(an authority), but you wouldn't have an idea if you were or not without experiencing and having knowledge of both. Once you have experienced both hot and cold, then you know the difference and then you choose what temperature is right for you.

And like it or not, but you have eaten from the tree of knowledge. And so you must learn both and choose.

You make it out so that the entire experience here is for nothing and has no point to it.

Originally posted by L.I.B. Contrary to your assertion the false teacher is the whore of Babylon... the church as set up by Emperor Pope Constantine... who had never given up his paganism.

You do not know for a fact that Paul did not meet Jesus face to face.

I have and as such I would recognize another who has... just as the other apostles did despite their initial suspicion.

LIB.. I would like for you to show me where I said that the false teacher is the whore of Babylon. I have made no such silly claims. I find all of that to be in a whole different catagory from those who buy into Paul's teachings.

You need to at least prove I said this before riding on this assumption. It is false.

Just like Paul, you make silly assumptions. I have done more than most of you in this thread and at least backed my claims up on the same text that Paul used... If you believe his claims then back them up by the Hebrew Scriptures. Don't go around making false statements to distract please.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by Simplynoone
No problem as long as you dont just forget me ...

By the way Justamomma ..in regards to your last post ...nope not smoking anything ..I am high naturally lol ..........guess we really are just a peculiar people

I am happy to be called an idiot or a lunatic for the Lord Jesus Christ ....after all that was what many called him ...why should we think we are exempt from the same ridicule that he recieved ... .....I praise GOD for that ..................and thanks for the compliment lol ....

I am off to bed myself ..
Good night ...

Wow and that shows that you do believe Paul's words and do not understand the Word... you being an idiot/lunatic and all. How embarrassing for you. You have declared yourself.

G.d is NOT a fool. He is BRILLIANT! He is a G.d of knowledge, not of ignorance and foolishness.

I promise you... this post is quite the foolishness. But it does NOT represent G.d. I know for a fact.



[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]

hi there,I am Darkwater from the North.

I have had Paul's vision(among others) & interracted with the light he met when he fell off of his donkey(call it an act of G_D if you like)

I interracted,asked as many questions of it as humanly possible & have been guided ever since....I met the same being of greater duration that Paul did,without attaching any labels....

Paul's vision is the worst description of any interaction with a being of greater duration that has ever been recorded,bar none.

It is,however,perfectly understandable if not typical of the reaction of a wretched,child murdering,lowlife,baldy egomaniac.His cringing & grovelling performance is a disgrace,he picks up no information whatsoever & is dictated too from a position of weakness,being void of all moral worth & corrupt to the core.

So the guy has *the fear of g_d* placed within him....he is a rotter,so what.THIS IS NOT ENLIGHTENMENT,THIS IS DUMB IGNORANCE AT IT'S WORST.Anyone who promotes Paul promotes fear & ignorance,very false fears.

On the contary the beings of greater duration like to liaise with us,or those who approach them on the level,without fear or prejudice,in love.

Paul is unremarkable to the extent he is stereotypical ....follower's of Paul jump on the repent bandwagon,like they were divinity speaking to a cringing child murderer.

Paul is poison,better that a millstone were hung around his neck & he was caste into the depths of the deepest ocean.

Forget Paul,better learn the path from those who are in touch with their divine sphere & can speak to their higher powers as equals.

Unite,combine & unify,become greater within your own image & forever smite ignorance when you come across it..

great love,

Darkwater

Originally posted by John Matrix
Actually, Paul followed Christ and he taught about the death, burial, resurrection, and absolute folly of all human effort to gain salvation...same as Jesus did, if you would just look at the explanations the Lord provided to me for your consumption. Paul even says not to follow him but to follow Christ. What is so hard for you to see in that statement? Stop your accusing. We know who the accuser is!!

If I read John F. MacArthur Jr.'s commentaries and gain some wisdom from his gift of teaching, does that mean that I follow him?

The Holy Spirit Confirms in my Spirit that Paul truly was a man of God who also received Salvation, Divine Revelations, Inspirations, enlightenment, sanctification, and transformation.

The Lord assisted me in destroying a proposed contradiction on here today. Events like this strengthen my Faith and prove to me that Paul's teachings do not contradict Jesus.

You are confounded because you have a Spirit of Intellectualism which makes you think you are enlightened, when in fact you are sleep walking in the wilderness. Your mind if veiled from even the simplest Spiritual Truths. When you respond to us your thoughts are all over the place. I can see it, and know that you are confused about the things of the Spirit. If you could just grasp one or two Spiritual Truths, the whole Tree of deception, Roots and All will come tumbling down and you would see the One True Light of Salvation.

You wouldn't know the Word if it backhanded you right now. Let's just take a look at what the teachings of Paul have done for you, shall we??

1. You have rebuked "satan" in both myself and badmedia Ironic, considering

2. You have only supported your claims with the FALSE apostle's words, but nothing out the Tanakh from which he claims his foundation is based.

3. You have destroyed most of the attention of those who were somewhat paying attention in the beginning (which seems to be your agenda)

4. You have claimed a new consciousness... which it was the same from the foundation of the world for those in whom this rests already.

5. You have condemned people that did NOT need to be condemned.

6. You have done everything you can to deny the truth in those who might have been able to see it....

yet the fact remains as this... the TRUTH remains with or without their acknowledgement.

It is NOT the Holy Spirit in which testifies to your spirit.. that I am assured of.


The Holy Spirit = the Word and the Word was not sent to condemn the world, but rather to call to the sheep in whom belong to it.

The Holy Spirit = the Word of which you have yet to use to support any of your FOOLISH claims.

[edit on 13-1-2009 by justamomma]

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by PuRe EnErGy

 

VERY GOOD!! *claps*

I am curious though..

For so many people to argue .......

And when I said these things, the Savior said, "I have told you that these (people) are blind and deaf. Now then, listen to the things which they are telling you in a mystery, and guard them, Do not tell them to the sons of this age. For they shall blaspheme you in these ages since they are ignorant of you, but they will praise you in knowledge."

This (drawn out argument) is like some kind of mad modern day television pop icon conversation where people talk about the person and not their acting ability or their singing ability.

Perhaps we need to further explore what this Jesus Christ character was all about..

"For many will accept our teaching in the beginning. And they will turn from them again by the will of the Father of their error, because they have done what he wanted. And he will reveal them in his judgment, i.e., the servants of the Word. But those who became mingled with these shall become their prisoners, since they are without perception. And the guileless, good, pure one they push to the worker of death, and to the kingdom of those who praise Christ in a restoration. And they praise the men of the propagation of falsehood, those who will come after you. And they will cleave to the name of a dead man, thinking that they will become pure. But they will become greatly defiled and they will fall into a name of error, and into the hand of an evil, cunning man and a manifold dogma, and they will be ruled without law."

"For some of them will blaspheme the truth and proclaim evil teaching. And they will say evil things against each other.

[edit on 1/13/2009 by PuRe EnErGy]

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy



If I have understood you correctly, then that is a rather astute observation.

The Son of man (the Word) has come back.. and though they see, some can not understand. I do not grieve for all, but I just ask they pay close attention not to follow an image.

Originally posted by justamomma
reply to post by John Matrix

 

mmmm... correct and incorrect... he is and he isn't. For *him* it is not out of context.

Oh! I never realized that One could just take Scripture out of context, and add in their own meaning while ignoring the real meaning that the author was actually conveying. What an interesting revelation.

What happens, unfortunately, when you encourage this type of willy nilly approach to interpreting scripture is people can justify all kinds of evil acts, and indeed they have, such as: wife beating, Witch hunts, lynchings, murder, Bigotry, Cereal Killers, slavery, Warmongers, genocide, holocausts, etc.

Now do you see the danger in interpreting Scripture out of context?

In fact, badmedia has done this with nearly all of my posts by reading into my posts meaning that I never intended. Proper interpretation begins by asking yourself, "what is the meaning the author is attempting to convey".

Every cereal killer has had his favorite Scripture to justify his Angel of Death killing spree.

You should think twice before advocating for anyone who uses scripture flippantly and out of context.

Originally posted by justamomma
"Our battle is not against flesh and blood. We battle against the powers of darkness in this world and the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Judgement Day is coming.....you can be saved even though you don't deserve it.....or perish, which is what you deserve."

Hey, JM.. noticed your sig. So, if they are saved, they don't deserve it but if they perish, they deserve it.

Care to elaborate on your twisted logic here?

Sounds an awful lot like the spirit of Paul dwells deep within you. If you do good, it is not you; but if you do evil.. well, that *is* you.

We came not to condemn the world.

Yes, that is called Grace. Grace is when God gives you what you don't deserve(salvation). We don't deserve Salvation we deserve Death because all of us have sinned and the punishment for sin is death, but God extends his Grace to us even though we don't deserve it. Everyone will be judged. Both believers and unbelievers, however, believers will be rewarded(some greater than others) and unbelievers will be judged differently. Also, belivers will actually be judging unbelievers right along with God on Judgement Day.

The signature requires a bit of thinking, but once you have the Spirit of God teaching you all things through your reborn Spirit you understand profound Spiritual statements like that readily.

Thank you for asking and I hope this helps you.