Paul ~ Inventing a new saviour

Paul was at odds with Peter and said that when Peter came to antioch that he "denied" him because he was clearly in the wrong.

Peter is the disciple that Jesus called "the rock" ..

The disciples were more gnostic than they were what christianity is today, they were all considered heretics.

I also thought that Paul never even met Jesus and claimed himself to be an apostle . .

I for one am more pleased with the gnostic scriptures (nag hammadi) as opposed to what is recognized as cannon today.

Then I asked him, "Lord, how shall we be able to prophesy to those who request us to prophesy to them? For there are many who ask us, and look to us to hear an oracle from us."
The Lord answered and said, "Do you not know that the head of prophecy was cut off with John?"
But I said, "Lord, can it be possible to remove the head of prophecy?"
The Lord said to me, "When you come to know what 'head' means, and that prophecy issues from the head, (then) understand the meaning of 'Its head was removed.' At first I spoke to you in parables, and you did not understand; now I speak to you openly, and you (still) do not perceive. Yet, it was you who served me as a parable in parables, and as that which is open in the (words) that are open.

"Since I have already been glorified in this fashion, why do you hold me back in my eagerness to go? For after the labor, you have compelled me to stay with you another eighteen days for the sake of the parables. It was enough for some (to listen) to the teaching and understand 'The Shepherds' and 'The Seed' and 'The Building' and 'The Lamps of the Virgins' and 'The Wage of the Workmen' and the 'Didrachmae' and 'The Woman.'"

"Become earnest about the word! For as to the word, its first part is faith; the second, love; the third, works; for from these comes life. For the word is like a grain of wheat; when someone had sown it, he had faith in it; and when it had sprouted, he loved it, because he had seen many grains in place of one. And when he had worked, he was saved, because he had prepared it for food, (and) again he left (some) to sow. So also can you yourselves receive the kingdom of heaven; unless you receive this through knowledge, you will not be able to find it."

[edit on 1/12/2009 by PuRe EnErGy]

Originally posted by John Matrix
What I am saying to you is no where near as harsh as what Jesus was to the Pharisees and Sadducees. Jesus ridiculed those that Mocked Him.

Like I said, who do you think you are?

Do you think you are the only person I have said things to? You have no idea what kind of ridicule and persectuion I have faced in the past 7 years. None at all. I have had death threats made against me and so on for the things I say.

I know who I am. Who do you think I am? Oh wait, you answer that already.

I gave you scriptural evidence, and others even added to it to show you. But You ignored this.

I take the word of god over the word of man.

You are better than Paul, James, Peter and John. You know more than those who lived, and walked the same pathways, highways, and byways as Jesus.
You are so wrapped up in Pride and self exaltation.

I do not wrap myself up in pride or such - YOU PUT YOURSELF DOWN and then you blame at me for not doing the same. Do you think Jesus was wrapped up in Pride and self exaltation?

You misquote scripture, you take scriptures out of context, you ignore the works of many great Christian scholars such as Mathew Henry, Andrew Murray, John F. MacArthur Sr. and Jr. and I can name dozens more who have spent their lives studying the Scriptures and Publishing their Commentaries, but you ignore all that and rely on ole 'Dirty Face" to be your guide and teacher. Your understanding of Scripture is PERVERTED.

Once again you ask me to take word of man over word of God. Once again you suggest to me that I am not good enough to see or hear for myself. Once again because you lack a personal relationship with god, you deny it to others.

It sends a message from the very PIT of Hell. I can see it plain as day. You know nothing about what you are talking about.

And here is where you answer who/what you think I am. And once again I find myself in the company of Jesus. Such claims were made to him as well.

If I boast, let it be in the Lord who moved me to obtain a diploma from a very reputable Shool of Theology and I received my first Certificate in Bible Studies when I was 9 years old through the Billy Graham Evengelical Society. I knew enough TRUTH back then to be able to see through your foolishness.

And once again you try to build yourself as an authority. That from man and from man's teachings you have learned the truth. That because you have diplomas from man, from schools of man, and certificates from time spent, you are the authority on what is truth.

Sorry, but all those things are meaningless to me. None of those things even come close to being or replacing a personal relationship with the father.

reply to post by badmedia


[All these other "denominations" are branches of the Catholic church tree. ]


I want some proof of that ...I do not believe that any of the Apostles (Not even Peter)would have been any part of starting something like what the Catholic Church does ...and I dont believe they would condone most of their practices .. ...where it says they went to the Churches at Rome ..does not mean they were Roman Catholic Churchs they created when in Rome ...
In fact if I recall the early churchs started as home churchs ..


I want some proof of this ..

reply to post by PuRe EnErGy


Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

Gal 2:13 And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Originally posted by Simplynoone
[All these other "denominations" are branches of the Catholic church tree. ]

I want some proof of that ...I do not believe that any of the Apostles (Not even Peter)would have been any part of starting something like what the Catholic Church does ...and I dont believe they would condone most of their practices .. ...where it says they went to the Churches at Rome ..does not mean they were Roman Catholic Churchs they created when in Rome ...
In fact if I recall the early churchs started as home churchs ..

I want some proof of this ..

Proof is in the history of church. I should not have said all though, my apologies for that. When I said All, I mean all of the ones that are accepted in the mainstream. Where as gnosticism isn't so much, but yet even it is still influenced in part by the RCC. I too am influenced by it, it is unavoidable as it has played such a huge role in the events that bring us where we are today.

You can see this in part by the books people use, which are acceptable etc.

And in history Like the english catholic church broke off from the roman catholic church, and then you have others which branch off those and so on. And like a child being born, it carries many of the same gene's as the mother/father. Thats how I see them all, as coming from the same tree. Usually it seems when people are at odds with something the church they belong to does, they branch off into a new denomination, carry the bulk of the beliefs and change the parts they don't agree with.

Btw, the reason you feel as though I am blaming you and others for what the catholic church has done is because of the attachments you feel/have for it. I do the same thing as well. When someone blames the acts of what other christians do, I also feel as though they are blaming me. But truly they are not, so at most we should just point out that not all act that way, and I can agree with that. I am just pointing out the fruits, and by the fruits I can see the truth here. When you have good fruits among it, such as you and I'm sure many others are, I think you have become such in spite of it, not because of it.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by L.I.B.

You are not experiencing anything different than I have experienced. I searched and received further understanding though on how God plays out his plan.

But as I told you over a month ago, these types of justifications are the same kinds of justifications for evil/Satan. I DO understand why. This is why I have said multiple times that if someone follows Paul, then they do not understand Paul.

Sure it's part of the plan, but this is just another thing we must overcome.

Actually, Paul followed Christ and he taught about the death, burial, resurrection, and absolute folly of all human effort to gain salvation...same as Jesus did, if you would just look at the explanations the Lord provided to me for your consumption. Paul even says not to follow him but to follow Christ. What is so hard for you to see in that statement? Stop your accusing. We know who the accuser is!!

If I read John F. MacArthur Jr.'s commentaries and gain some wisdom from his gift of teaching, does that mean that I follow him?

The Holy Spirit Confirms in my Spirit that Paul truly was a man of God who also received Salvation, Divine Revelations, Inspirations, enlightenment, sanctification, and transformation.

The Lord assisted me in destroying a proposed contradiction on here today. Events like this strengthen my Faith and prove to me that Paul's teachings do not contradict Jesus.

You are confounded because you have a Spirit of Intellectualism which makes you think you are enlightened, when in fact you are sleep walking in the wilderness. Your mind if veiled from even the simplest Spiritual Truths. When you respond to us your thoughts are all over the place. I can see it, and know that you are confused about the things of the Spirit. If you could just grasp one or two Spiritual Truths, the whole Tree of deception, Roots and All will come tumbling down and you would see the One True Light of Salvation.

reply to post by badmedia


I don't ask you to take the word of man over the word of God. I just ask you to use the brain you have and READ from those who have traveled this road before you and stop being so arrogant and Proud. Then sift out the wheat from the tares for yourself.....wait....sorry....you can't do that properly until you are born again because only the Spirit can discern what is wheat and what is tares.

So, repent and receive the gift of life, a reborn Spirit to be made One with the Father and the Son.

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by badmedia

 

I don't ask you to take the word of man over the word of God. I just ask you to use the brain you have and READ from those who have traveled this road before you and stop being so arrogant and Proud. Then sift out the wheat from the tares for yourself.....wait....sorry....you can't do that properly until you are born again because only the Spirit can discern what is wheat and what is tares.

So, repent and receive the gift of life, a reborn Spirit to be made One with the Father and the Son.

LOL.... Yes you have obviously walked the path... right into the church and drank their tainted grape juice. God doesnt anwser your prayers... just try it.

How was it that you were born again.... was it from one ignorance into another? O NO ONLY THE SPIRIT CAN SEE IT!!!! Maybe you should pull your head out of gods butt and look at the world and whats really going on.

Originally posted by badmedia

If I boast, let it be in the Lord who moved me to obtain a diploma from a very reputable School of Theology and I received my first Certificate in Bible Studies when I was 9 years old through the Billy Graham Evangelical Society. I knew enough TRUTH back then to be able to see through your foolishness.

And once again you try to build yourself as an authority. That from man and from man's teachings you have learned the truth. That because you have diplomas from man, from schools of man, and certificates from time spent, you are the authority on what is truth.

Sorry, but all those things are meaningless to me. None of those things even come close to being or replacing a personal relationship with the father.

And once again you spin my words and lie. I give the Glory to the Lord, I do not seek to build myself up for self exaltation. Christ, the Word of God, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit is my authority.

You are YOUR OWN authority. You seek self exaltation and glory. Your Fallen Nature is your God. You follow a Jesus of your own Making, not the one True Christ of God. You even said that YOU are GOD!!

Blasphemy, pure Blasphemy.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Originally posted by Wertdagf

Originally posted by John Matrix
reply to post by badmedia

 

I don't ask you to take the word of man over the word of God. I just ask you to use the brain you have and READ from those who have traveled this road before you and stop being so arrogant and Proud. Then sift out the wheat from the tares for yourself.....wait....sorry....you can't do that properly until you are born again because only the Spirit can discern what is wheat and what is tares.

So, repent and receive the gift of life, a reborn Spirit to be made One with the Father and the Son.

LOL.... Yes you have obviously walked the path... right into the church and drank their tainted grape juice. God doesnt anwser your prayers... just try it.

How was it that you were born again.... was it from one ignorance into another? O NO ONLY THE SPIRIT CAN SEE IT!!!! Maybe you should pull your head out of gods butt and look at the world and whats really going on.

We know where your head is. You still suffer from anal canium inversion.
I don't go to Church. Thank you.

reply to post by badmedia


There was Catholics and there was Protestants ......they were NEVER ONE >
At least not that I am aware of ..If they were ...that would mean ALL THE APOSTLES (Who were actually JEWISH ) all became Catholics and that I do not believe .......

While churches which historically emerged directly or indirectly from the Protestant Reformation generally constitute traditional Protestantism, in common usage the term is often used to refer to any Christian church other than the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Churches.[4] This usage is imprecise, however, as there are non-Roman Catholic and non-Eastern Orthodox churches which predate the Reformation (notably Oriental Orthodoxy). The Anglican tradition, although historically influenced by the Protestant Reformation in what is called the English Reformation, differs from many Reformation principles and understands itself to be a middle path—a via media—between Roman Catholic and Protestant doctrines. Other groups, such as the Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, reject traditional Protestantism as another deviation from Christianity, while perceiving themselves to be restorationists.
en.wikipedia.org...

Unlike mainstream Evangelical (Lutheran), Reformed (Zwinglian and Calvinist) Protestant movements, the Radical Reformation, which had no state sponsorship, generally abandoned the idea of the "Church Visible" as distinct from the "Church Invisible". It was a rational extension of the State-approved Protestant dissent, which took the value of independence from constituted authority a step further, arguing the same for the civic realm.

Church leaders such as Hubmaier and Hofmann preached the invalidity of infant baptism, advocating baptism as following conversion, called "believer's baptism", instead.

In the view of many associated with the Radical Reformation, the Magisterial Reformation had not gone far enough, with radical reformer, Andreas von Bodenstein Karlstadt, for example, referring to the Lutheran theologians at Wittenberg as the "new papists".[14] A more political side of the Radical Reformation can be seen in the thought and practice of Hans Hut, although typically Anabaptism has been associated with pacifism.

Early Anabaptists were severely persecuted by both Calvinist and Catholic civil authorities.
en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by John Matrix



What happened to keeping the sabath holy? so when do you get down on your knees and pray? How could you reinforced such ignorant beliefs without it?

Originally posted by John Matrix
I don't ask you to take the word of man over the word of God. I just ask you to use the brain you have and READ from those who have traveled this road before you and stop being so arrogant and Proud. Then sift out the wheat from the tares for yourself.....wait....sorry....you can't do that properly until you are born again because only the Spirit can discern what is wheat and what is tares.

So, repent and receive the gift of life, a reborn Spirit to be made One with the Father and the Son.

In 1 post you tell me I am at fault for using my brain, and then in the very next you ask me to use it. In 1 second you accuse me of being victim to intellectualism, and at the same time you ask me to read someones book of how they understand it.

And once again you tell me what I can't do. I am not good enough to do these things for myself, and so on. Quit projecting yourself onto me please.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by John Matrix

 

What happened to keeping the sabath holy? so when do you get down on your knees and pray? How could you reinforced such ignorant beliefs without it?

Every day is the Sabbath Day when you are Born again. We make no distinction or hold any one Day above another....that would be worldly.

Originally posted by badmedia

Originally posted by John Matrix
I don't ask you to take the word of man over the word of God. I just ask you to use the brain you have and READ from those who have traveled this road before you and stop being so arrogant and Proud. Then sift out the wheat from the tares for yourself.....wait....sorry....you can't do that properly until you are born again because only the Spirit can discern what is wheat and what is tares.

So, repent and receive the gift of life, a reborn Spirit to be made One with the Father and the Son.

In 1 post you tell me I am at fault for using my brain, and then in the very next you ask me to use it. In 1 second you accuse me of being victim to intellectualism, and at the same time you ask me to read someones book of how they understand it.

And once again you tell me what I can't do. I am not good enough to do these things for myself, and so on. Quit projecting yourself onto me please.

Read it again...I stopped in mid sentence and changed my thought. That's the trouble with people today. They can read, but they cannot comprehend what is being said, so they read in what their confused mind tells them and thus fool themselves.

Choosing to become wise in their own selves, they became fools.

reply to post by John Matrix


So the ten commandments are ignorant and worldy? So you sit at home praying and worshiping every day?

What books of the bible do you put into practice? You state that you dont believe mainstream christianity in churches, but you sound like any another bible thumping slave.

Originally posted by John Matrix
And once again you spin my words and lie. I give the Glory to the Lord, I do not seek to build myself up for self exaltation. Christ, the Word of God, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit is my authority.

You are YOUR OWN authority. You seek self exaltation and glory. Your Fallen Nature is your God. You follow a Jesus of your own Making, not the one True Christ of God.

Matthew 7
28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

John 14

12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

You even said that YOU are GOD!!

Blasphemy, pure Blasphemy.

John 14
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Matthew 10
19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

The day I said - I am god and I am arguing with myself was the day the father started to speak through me.

Well here we go with the male testosterone again ...
Come on yall this is so unbecoming of grown men .

: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

not written in the G_d voice. written in the human voice. this is what the person speaking thinks it means and thinks the punishment should be.

reply to post by Simplynoone


About the formation of the church.

Prior to the catholic church, the church consisted of those people who were converted to the way, now known as Christians. They either gathered in homes or at the synagogues. They were what we know today as the gnostics.

Emperor Pope Constantine had a revelation, but never converted to Christianity, but he decided to make how Christians were supposed to worship... under penalty of death. They wiped out whoever wouldn't worship as they decided.

This church became known as the Roman Catholic Church.

There are other apostolic churchs... Eastern, Orthodox, and others I suppose. Several of them are on the outs with Rome waiting for their return.

Anyway, yes, the Roman church has influenced every church in existence today that we normally know of.

Out of the Roman Catholic Church came Martin Luther... the head of what came to be known as the Protestant Reformation.

All our bibles are the result of the Roman Church as established in 325 AD by Constantine.